Judgement Poll - The Final RPG vs cRPG Forum Discussion

[DarkUnderlord]

Following on from this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/so-jaesun-whats-a-classic-rpg-poll.74414/

This is the final judgement. No further discussion shall be entered into or taken into consideration.

- All in One. Create one "General RPG Discussion Forum" as we had before. Put all your Mass Effect, Twitcher, Oblivion and Knights of the Chalice threads in there and let God sort them out.
- Computer vs Console: MMXI's proposal for a "Computer RPG Discussion" and a "Console RPG Discussion".
- As it is now, a "Classic / Golden Era" forum with a "Modern cRPG Forum".
- Some other combination or addition (which you can suggest below). For those who think a forum split is good, we just need to split more or in different ways.
- Whatever happens, keep the jRPG Forum.
- Ditch the jRPG Forum.
- KingComrade!! Discussion. I will setup a forum where we can discuss the Comrade of Kings.

NOTE: You can select multiple options - thus allowing you to pick whether we keep a jRPG forum or not.

Votes are public, so I can track them. Anyone voting for conflicting options will of course cancel their own vote out.

Poll closes in 7 days and then that's it. If there's a clear overwhelming majority, that's most likely what I'll ignore in order to engender massive butthurt the option we'll go with.

MMXI's proposal:

stabby

Right now there's a Japanese and western divide, with the western forums split even further into classic and modern. Much of this thread has consisted of people bitching about the split between classic and modern, while quite a few others have brought up the lack of activity in the JRPG forum and how pointless it is because of it. But you've got to go back to the point of the split in the first place, and that seems to be to have a forum for the RPGs that aren't New Shit and not Japanese. The issue right now is that the classic/golden age forum, which I'm guessing is for people who may not care as much about multi-platform AAA garbage and JRPGs, doesn't capture enough topics of interest to its audience. It doesn't capture games like Temple of Elemental Evil, Knights of the Chalice or even Wasteland 2. These are the types of games that the "classic RPG" audience would be interested in, thus failing its objective as everyone will be checking both western RPG forums anyway. In other words, it serves no purpose other than to slow both forums down somewhat, which General RPG Discussion was never in need of in the first place.

So what are the alternatives? One would be to merge all three current single player RPG boards together into a new General RPG Discussion again, as before. Another would be to try to achieve the aim of the split in the first place with less of its problems. The only sensible ways of doing this is to split between the computer and console divide or the Japanese and western divide.

The problem with the latter, of course, is the same problem we have now. There's no clear way to keep Wasteland 2 and Grimrock threads next to Wizardry and Gold Box threads while keeping Skyrim and Knights of the Old Republic threads out (unless Jaesun moves stuff to General Gaming again, which caused just as much butthurt).

The former, on the other hand, is what I proposed. A console and computer split, with multi-platform games (at development time) going in the console forum to keep threads on shitty AAA games away from Wasteland 2 and turn-based indie RPG threads. In my opinion this is vastly superior to a split between countries of origin because it easily allows you to separate out modern PC exclusive indie/lower budget RPGs and trillion dollar AAA multiplatform games at the same time.

Of course, I have no argument against going back to how things were, and I won't even bother to argue against that. All I'm saying that if there has to be a split, don't split it in the way it is currently, as I don't want Knights of the Chalice threads in a different forum to Gold Box threads.

 

[MetalCraze]

Computer and console shit should be separated. And computer forum should have only PC-exclusives. Coincidentally 95% of topics there will be about classic RPGs.

Also ditch jRPG shit. Our local pedos should go to RPGWatch or some shit for their daily dosage of animu.

End of Rhine.

 

[Marsal]

I agree with Skyway. Weaboos are not welcome. Although, I'd rather have a pedo jRPG forum, than letting that shit spill all over other forums, if they must be allowed to post their vile garbage. Just don't post reviews of jRPG trash on the front page, FFS.

 

[Sceptic]

I voted MMXI, but that's only if you absolutely have to split them (I really should've voted "keep as it was"). The current model is a clusterfuck. Golden vs Newshit is nice in theory but practically it's impossible to implement well. I mean, Golden forum is supposed to be for games "to about the mid 90s", but Wizardry 8, a game from the 2000s, is there. And of course something like KOTC is going to end up in Newshit. Or in Golden Age, even tough it's 15 years too late according to the forum description. Thing is this isn't about "golden age" or "newshit", it's "I like this game so it goes in Golden Age regardless of release date". Forget it. At least Computer vs Console can be easily split up - throw all the multiplatforms into Console and voila, all "classic-style" western CRPGs all in one forum. Only disadvantage is that some of the hardcore Jap dungeon crawlers will end up in Consoles, but it's still better than the current system. The alternative being keeping the jRPG forum for those, but fuck it, splitting GRPGD into 2 is already too much.

The clear divide to me is quite simply, one between what we consider "Good" RPGs and those we consider "Bad" RPGs. Hence the original "Classic" forum... to which (unsurprisingly) much butthurt ensued.

Only just saw this in the other thread. Here's the problem: you haven't defined "classic". The description on the forum name contradicts your description in the post from which I quoted on several points. While it would be nice to have that forum exactly the way you want it, good luck writing a description that will thoroughly cover all the games you want to see there. You want to keep the description vague and just move threads whenever? sure why not... and we're back exactly where we started.

 

[Ulminati]

I rather liked the hot topics idea DU mentioned in the other threads. Whenever a big release is out, be it skyrim, diablo or whatever, a seperate subboard is made for it in grpgd for people to spam their threads. A few months down the line they are then unceremoniously dumped on page 50-something in GRPGD after the DISCUSS! has died down.

 

[Turjan]

I rather liked the hot topics idea DU mentioned in the other threads. Whenever a big release is out, be it skyrim, diablo or whatever, a seperate subboard is made for it in grpgd for people to spam their threads. A few months down the line they are then unceremoniously dumped on page 50-something in GRPGD after the DISCUSS! has died down.

Although I voted for "Keep it all in one GRPGD forum" up there, I also like this idea. This would keep GRPGD from being flooded and also prevent these mega threads with lots of internal repetition.

 

[made]

We certainly don't need dozens of "wot i think" threads whenever a new AAA title comes out. One megathread is enough - as is the case with D3 atm for example. Retardo/merge the rest. Keeps forum clean and bored mods busy.

 

[Excidium]

Just return to how it used to be.​

 

[Johannes]

GRPGD forum and New Shit forum. New Shit for everything that is both New and Shit, and at least remotely resembles an RPG. GRPGD for everything else.

Barring that, just one GRPGD forum like it used to be.

Console/computer split is not good since there's some actual good, console-exclusive RPGs out there too. Which can be emulated as well and are pretty natural to mention in a relevant RPG discussion.

 

[Darth Roxor]

One GRPG, splitting is completely pointless, unless you want half the new threads to be filled with 'OMG WRONG FORUM, OFFTOPIC, MODS PLZ MOVE' bullshit like on every other forum.

 

[mondblut]

The problem with comrade MMXI' proposal is twofold. One, as questionable at best and disgusting at worst the Biothesdian productions are, lumping them together with filthy fantasy 7 is going too far. Two, you don't have to be on a console to be a jrpg shitstain, as proven by vomits like septerra core or countless RPGMaker bile.

My idea for a split would be: old RPGs (pre-Codex, I've been serious about that ), modern AAA "RPGs", modern independent RPGs. And whatever happens, keep animufaggotry in ghetto, where it might be ignored by the heterosexual members of the Codex.

 

[Excommunicator]

Go back to the "mobygames solution" (GRPG gets anything listed as an RPG on mobygames). It really worked while it was active. None of this stupid discussion of being in the wrong forum or needing to change it around.

My problem isn't actually with the discussion, it's with people suggesting changing the forum to reflect their definition. I have a strong RPG classification of my own but the Codex isn't about that, it's about being a place where I can go to discuss my classification with everyone else's definitions and classifications (without all this added baggage of "The forum must be changed to reflect it!" BS or the "things have changed, get with the times!" retorts of other forums). It is an open discussion forum, and this very topic creates some of the most fertile discussion on the forum, even after having been cloned and regurgitated a hundred times over. I enjoy the discussion when it stays away from forum politics and moderation functions.

Even with all the idealism aside, splitting is entirely pointless. The forums don't move at a fast enough pace, and just about everyone here is going to want to check all forums regardless of how they are organised (sometimes a serious interest, sometimes a comedic interest). Splitting creates an atmosphere of emptiness and has a very hard-to-detect effect on the activity levels of a given forum. If you are so incapable of using the search function to find things about a particular game, then too bad for you. If a mods wants to organise posts or threads then let him create a locked sticky full of links to all the stand-out oldschool threads. You can spend all the time in the world doing it that way, you don't need to organise it for everyone else.

Speaking in terms of organic evolution on the forum, the 300 page "discuss this newly released game here" threads that have developed seem to have worked. They keep all the hype and play impressions in more or less one place, and if you really want to read about the game you'll wade through those hundreds of pages, otherwise you skim it or you just avoid it completely. It doesn't clutter anything when you have those super-threads that everyone posts in so in that sense they perform a valuable function.

As for the JRPG content, I haven't and won't go looking for JRPG content but I really don't care if there are threads there in GRPG about it. It is very easy to see what is JRPG and what isn't and before this discussion it didn't even pass my mind, presumably because there isn't a lot of it on the Codex. Either that or my mind is hardwired to sub-consciously ignore such threads, in which case you untermenschen should learn the same discipline.

 

[Ulminati]

Also, thread should be renamed "ULTIMATE DOOM EXPANSION SET FOR KWANZANIA GRPGD"

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Like someone said before, if it pleases you, create a "Jaesun favourite RPGs" forum but please, don't throw arbitrary words like "classic" to justify this vanity. I have nothing against you Jaesun, you're a bro in my eyes.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

As of voting so far, looks like we're keeping the jRPG Forum - and everything else is getting dumped back into GRPGD.

I will add that if the vote for "all in one" drops to closer around the 50% mark, I'll likely try the "Computer vs Console" split for a while just to see how it goes.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

I remind you that "classic" means "that which is taught in class" and, for the time being, it's not Jaesun who defines the programs of national education. It could well be "Oblivion", as awful as it would be.

 

[SuicideBunny]

would like computer/console split as they tend to be differently flavored and attract different people, but mobygames grpgd would work too.

 

[Johannes]

I will add that if the vote for "all in one" drops to closer around the 50% mark, I'll likely try the "Computer vs Console" split for a while just to see how it goes.

How is jRPG defined? By source country and nothing else?

It's just 8-9 in the votes anyway, I don't see the point in the extra hassle.

 

[Infinitron]

MMXI Where would the following games go under your system:
Diablo 3
Witcher 2
Every PC-exclusive indie-casual action-RPG in existence

 

[circ]

Current system is working fine. Easy to keep track of things with multiple sub-forums. Chrono Trigger, FF3 and a few others are fine games so I got no issues with a JRPG forum.

Console vs computer is just stupid.

 

[Zed]

"asian, mobile and console RPGs" would make a nice subforum for "unwanted" stuff, if that's what it's all about.

 

[Infinitron]

I think MMXI's idea is a bit...sneaky and deceptive, in that he's trying to segregate the "good RPGs" and the "bad RPGs" using a criteria that isn't directly related to their quality. It's like using literacy tests to exclude African-Americans from voting instead of just having the guts to say "NO NIGGERS ALLOWED".

Nevertheless I can see how that division would create an outcome that is fairly desirable, so I'm not really against it. But going back to original GRPG is just as good. Personally I thought it would be nice to have a forum which would serve as a kind of repository of high-brow discussions of really old games, but for some reason that idea causes extreme butthurt on the Codex.

Oh, and keep the JRPG forum.

 

[groke]

MMXI's idea works a lot nicer than any other proposal, but I still voted for one GRPGD undivided because "change is bad" is the only option that is in line with the Codex zeitgeist.

 

[Hirato]

We should just split it into an "incline" and "decline" dichotomy and let the butthurt flow!

 

[MMXI]

The problem with comrade MMXI' proposal is twofold. One, as questionable at best and disgusting at worst the Biothesdian productions are, lumping them together with filthy fantasy 7 is going too far.

No, it really isn't. Do I sense a bit of affection for Skyrim in your words?

Two, you don't have to be on a console to be a jrpg shitstain, as proven by vomits like septerra core or countless RPGMaker bile.

So how many threads did we get in GRPGD about Septerra Core and "RPGMaker bile"? Not enough to ruin a whole forum. Again, fringe cases like these won't pose a problem to either forum because they are largely infrequently brought up on this site.

My idea for a split would be: old RPGs (pre-Codex, I've been serious about that ), modern AAA "RPGs", modern independent RPGs. And whatever happens, keep animufaggotry in ghetto, where it might be ignored by the heterosexual members of the Codex.

Where does Temple of Elemental Evil threads go? The Modern AAA RPGs forum? You've basically described the same split we have now, with a forum for old games. To me, date doesn't matter. I want my Knights of the Chalice threads next to my Champions of Krynn threads! What do they have in common? Being computer RPGs, that's what!