People News Josh Sawyer plans to develop a historical RPG after his current project

[Trashos]

One that has all of these elements, not just 2 or 3 of them:

• solid storyline with a sensible narrative and at least 1 major plot twist
• interesting and memorable characters that are a joy to either like or dislike
• a relatively smooth engine that's not plagued by an entire beehive of insects
• good mechanics, fun systems, and at least a semblance of C&C reactivity
• overall FUN gameplay that doesn't annoy or irritate the player

Tell me, when was the last time Obsidian hit all 5?

PoE.

I 'd give PoE 4/5 based on that list (3 full points and 2 halves). But if people want to argue that PoE is not as good as PST, FO2 and BG2, then sure, I agree.

 

[Shin]

Ah yes, the M. Night Shyalaman school of RPG design.

Right, because uninspired narratives really are loads of fun. Are you by any chance a protegee of Balancemaster Sawyer?

1. Having 'at least one major plot twist' does not mean it is an inspired narrative.
2. Wtf does have Sawyer balancing the fun out of gameplay have to do with the narrative?

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

One that has all of these elements, not just 2 or 3 of them:

• solid storyline with a sensible narrative and at least 1 major plot twist
• interesting and memorable characters that are a joy to either like or dislike
• a relatively smooth engine that's not plagued by an entire beehive of insects
• good mechanics, fun systems, and at least a semblance of C&C reactivity
• overall FUN gameplay that doesn't annoy or irritate the player

Tell me, when was the last time Obsidian hit all 5?

PoE.

I 'd give PoE 4/5 based on that list (3 full points and 2 halves). But if people want to argue that PoE is not as good as PST, FO2 and BG2, then sure, I agree.

Mkay, on the last two points I'd consider giving only half a point each too.
And it's definitely not as genious as PS:T, on that I agree.
But I liked it way more than BGII, and given my not so enthusiastic reaction to FO1 I'd probably say the same about FO2, had I ever played it.

 

[Tigranes]

One that has all of these elements, not just 2 or 3 of them:

• solid storyline with a sensible narrative and at least 1 major plot twist

Ah yes, the acclaimed M. Night Shyalaman school of RPG design.

Jade Empire must be pleased.

"MY STUDENT, WELCOME! DON'T MIND MY OMINOUS WARNINGS ABOUT A FATAL WEAKNESS IN YOUR MARTIAL ARTS THAT ONLY I, YOUR MASTER WITH A SUSPICIOUSLY EVIL VOICE ACTOR, COULD EXPLOIT! Anyway get on out there and start the tutorial now"

 

[Azrael the cat]

He said ALL five, not none.

They hit them out of the park (as in they're nowhere to be found).

Actually, I quite liked PoE. I just had to get that shitty dad joke off my chest!

 

[Ninjerk]

Well, I'm bound to try 3.0 at some point. As disappointing as it was at release, I find it somewhat reassuring that it's still being tinkered with (and that they've gone back on some pretty strong design decisions).

 

[Tigranes]

Whatever you think of POE, it has definitely gotten better in all sorts of ways since 1.0. It's basically Enhanced Edition now. That's not enough for people who thought it was fundamentally broken, obviously, but if that's not you, it has gotten better.

 

[Prime Junta]

"MY STUDENT, WELCOME! DON'T MIND MY OMINOUS WARNINGS ABOUT A FATAL WEAKNESS IN YOUR MARTIAL ARTS THAT ONLY I, YOUR MASTER WITH A SUSPICIOUSLY EVIL VOICE ACTOR, COULD EXPLOIT! Anyway get on out there and start the tutorial now"

But... that was what made JE great. It managed to toe the line between adventure and comedy beautifully. Whimsical, funny, pretty, with genuinely laugh-out-loud moments, and when the twist you could see coming from a mile away actually came, it was just fucking awesome.

Srsly is one of best aRPG-lites I've played. If BioWare wanted to stop making actual RPG's, they would've done soooo much better just to continue in that direction instead of making grimdark space odysseys set in malls and parking lots or blood-drenched whack-the-demon things. JE isn't my favourite type of game, but it is my favourite game of its type.

 

[Sizzle]

"MY STUDENT, WELCOME! DON'T MIND MY OMINOUS WARNINGS ABOUT A FATAL WEAKNESS IN YOUR MARTIAL ARTS THAT ONLY I, YOUR MASTER WITH A SUSPICIOUSLY EVIL VOICE ACTOR, COULD EXPLOIT! Anyway get on out there and start the tutorial now"

But... that was what made JE great. It managed to toe the line between adventure and comedy beautifully. Whimsical, funny, pretty, with genuinely laugh-out-loud moments, and when the twist you could see coming from a mile away actually came, it was just fucking awesome.

Srsly is one of best aRPG-lites I've played. If BioWare wanted to stop making actual RPG's, they would've done soooo much better just to continue in that direction instead of making grimdark space odysseys set in malls and parking lots or blood-drenched whack-the-demon things. JE isn't my favourite type of game, but it is my favourite game of its type.

It always fascinated me how many people were genuinely taken aback by that "shocking, totally didn't at least suspect it from the moment we met" twist.

 

[Manmower]

Did you have more than game on your list of "normal, baseline" RPGs? If not, you may want to reconsider how you're defining "normal".

Well, Divinity:OS was a 'nice' RPG in my book. Not perfect, not flawless, not supremely memorable, but well done and by a capable team. I'd rate it a solid 3.5/5, which is not a bad score when you think about it.

True gems are games like PS:T and Fallout 2. Those were marvels of design, even though they had their bugs and quirks.

I think the majority of us on the Codex can forgive buggy implementation if the story, characters, combat, design, and overall gameplay show that the game was made with passion. Both PS:T and Fallout 2 have soul. PoE doesn't. And it shows.

I rip on Obsidian a lot because their idiocy makes me sad, but I honestly wish they'd get their shit together and start producing gems again. They have it in them, it's just that for whatever reason, they seem to have lost their mojo.

 

[vivec]

One that has all of these elements, not just 2 or 3 of them:

• solid storyline with a sensible narrative and at least 1 major plot twist

Ah yes, the acclaimed M. Night Shyalaman school of RPG design.

Jade Empire must be pleased.

"MY STUDENT, WELCOME! DON'T MIND MY OMINOUS WARNINGS ABOUT A FATAL WEAKNESS IN YOUR MARTIAL ARTS THAT ONLY I, YOUR MASTER WITH A SUSPICIOUSLY EVIL VOICE ACTOR, COULD EXPLOIT! Anyway get on out there and start the tutorial now"

You blew it.

Jade Empire, despite its mediocre gameplay and characters, is ONE game where this twist is done right. In fact, that one thing you mentioned, everyone tells you that it is *brilliant* because to them it seems like a clever ploy to fool opponents into seeing weakness where there is none. The twist is quite good there in fact, where they subvert the most ancient of martial arts genre of storytelling: "You killed my master, now prepare to die".

Whatever you think of POE, it has definitely gotten better in all sorts of ways since 1.0. It's basically Enhanced Edition now. That's not enough for people who thought it was fundamentally broken, obviously, but if that's not you, it has gotten better.

Lolno.

There is nothing to make it a 'great' game there anyway. The game is pretty much soleless, action fest. The core gameplay or the plot is uninspiring. No amount of sauce is going to make that taste delightful.

 

[Manmower]

soleless

 

[Haba]

Guys, I just got a leak on the tentative title of Sawyer's next game

Spoiler

Corporate Bankruptcy

 

[vivec]

soleless

Well, Josh Sawyer is trying to create a Hipstorical RPG. Why can't it be soleless?

 

[an Administrator]

Adventurers of Josh Sawyer and Rogueyberry Finn
How can it be 'soleless'?

 

[Tigranes]

One that has all of these elements, not just 2 or 3 of them:

• solid storyline with a sensible narrative and at least 1 major plot twist

Ah yes, the acclaimed M. Night Shyalaman school of RPG design.

Jade Empire must be pleased.

"MY STUDENT, WELCOME! DON'T MIND MY OMINOUS WARNINGS ABOUT A FATAL WEAKNESS IN YOUR MARTIAL ARTS THAT ONLY I, YOUR MASTER WITH A SUSPICIOUSLY EVIL VOICE ACTOR, COULD EXPLOIT! Anyway get on out there and start the tutorial now"

You blew it.

Jade Empire, despite its mediocre gameplay and characters, is ONE game where this twist is done right. In fact, that one thing you mentioned, everyone tells you that it is *brilliant* because to them it seems like a clever ploy to fool opponents into seeing weakness where there is none. The twist is quite good there in fact, where they subvert the most ancient of martial arts genre of storytelling: "You killed my master, now prepare to die".

Just how braindead do you have to be not to see the 'twist' telegraphed in the FIRST MINUTE of the game

Also "secret weakness in your martial arts that nobody really explains that has zero gameplay impact and is never visible in any way except the one time the EVIL MASTER waves his hand and casts Hold Person on you" is about basically fucking rocks fall everyone dies

 

[vivec]

Less braindead than anyone who thinks PoE has a good plot really, right?

 

[Manmower]

Less braindead than anyone who thinks PoE has a good plot really, right?

Stop shitting on Eric Fernmaker, you think it's easy putting together a coherent plot with the Balancemaster cutting your content left and right?

 

[Mozg]

Devil May Cry 3 came out like a month before Jade Empire. I wonder how it felt to have worked on JE's combat and then to play DMC3

 

[Telengard]

Jade Empire is my favorite. Because it's the one that proved finally and definitively that Bioware wanted to write for the angsty tweens who watch the CW channel, and not for RPG players. When one made that claim after BG, their defenders claimed it was because the company was green and they would mature later. When one made that claim after NWN, their defenders claimed it was because the company was doing something too experimental to have the time to also make a well-crafted, mature story. And when one made that claim after SW:KotOR, their defenders claimed it was because Star Wars was a tweeny series, so the company had to make it tweeny for the Star Wars fans.

After Jade Empire 90210, though, there were no more excuses to be made. There was no more denying who Bioware's chosen audience were and had been all along.

 

[Manmower]

There was no more denying who the Bioware's chosen audience were and had been all along.

I'm not defending them, but look at it rationally: crafting an edgy, grimdark game will substantially narrow the demographic that'll play your game. By making it appealing to the broadest segment of the player base, they get more people on board. And everyone loves tweeny shit, from kids to adults.

 

[Fry]

Less braindead than anyone who thinks PoE has a good plot really, right?

Stop shitting on Eric Fernmaker, you think it's easy putting together a coherent plot with the Balancemaster cutting your content left and right?

Ok, which one of you Sawyer-obsessed retards created this alt?

 

[Manmower]

Ok, which one of you Sawyer-obsessed retards created this alt?

That one's all mine, chum.

 

[CyberWhale]

But I liked it way more than BGII, and given my not so enthusiastic reaction to FO1 I'd probably say the same about FO2, had I ever played it.

A well meaning advice - play more RPGs, stop shitposting in GD. You're welcome.

 

[hpstg]

I never finished or played enough of v 1.0 PoE. I'm now dabbling a couple of hours every night. I'm at the point of going for the castle. The game feels nice, coherent, it has amazing graphics and audio, I like Aloth and Durance very much, each for different reasons. The only thing I really didn't like are the "soul" NPCs. They give me the feeling that if they coalesced all of those in each area, into one NPC with a really good side quest, the game would gain a lot. They remind me of the memories in the Sensorium in Torment, but at least there they were YOUR memories and each one was feeling precious because of that. The lack of interactivity makes these feel fake and weird, killing a lot of the feel of the world for me. If it weren't for them and the Kickstarter campaign, this game would be a a cult sleeper hit, and we would lament how Obsidian shut down after making it. Context is king.