Is it me getting older and jaded or Half-Life 2 is one of the worst shooters?

[sullynathan]

Aside from being linear FPSes, the two games are nothing alike. HL2 strength is supposed to be its gameplay diversity (you never spend much time doing the same thing), story/world building and atmosphere while FEAR is about its stylistic, over the top John Woo/FP Max Payne gunfights against enemies which have excellent AI and some Jap style horror sprinkled on top of all that. As far as I'm concerned F.E.A.R does what it does extremely well (which is why I replayed the game quite a few times over the years, including Extraction Point which is one of the best expansions ever made) while HL2 I've barely finished once on release, I even prefer FEAR graphics (I've always liked how it used dynamic shadows, particle effects during gunfights and visual design/art direction of enemies and weapons).

You would be right, fear does have a few more grenades and guns than half life 2 but I disagree with the rest.

I've played fear more recently than half life 2 and I've stopped because of how boring it gets later on.

Half life 2 recycled between the aliens and human enemies but fear does not introduce any new enemy after the first chapter except the ones that go in invisible in the 2nd or 3rd chapter. Add in that nearly every location you go to looks the same and the fact that there aren't that many weapons in the game then it becomes really repetitive really fast.

Half life 2 starts out boring but finished strong while fear starts out strong and becomes incredibly boring.

Half life 2 runs flawlessly while fear is inconsistent. One times it runs perfectly then it dips everywhere. I've read it's am engine problem.
It's also why I like max Payne and played it more times than fear.

 

[Durandal]

Aside from being linear FPSes, the two games are nothing alike. HL2 strength is supposed to be its gameplay diversity (you never spend much time doing the same thing), story/world building and atmosphere while FEAR is about its stylistic, over the top John Woo/FP Max Payne gunfights against enemies which have excellent AI and some Jap style horror sprinkled on top of all that. As far as I'm concerned F.E.A.R does what it does extremely well (which is why I replayed the game quite a few times over the years, including Extraction Point which is one of the best expansions ever made) while HL2 I've barely finished once on release, I even prefer FEAR graphics (I've always liked how it used dynamic shadows, particle effects during gunfights and visual design/art direction of enemies and weapons).

You would be right, fear does have a few more grenades and guns than half life 2 but I disagree with the rest.

I've played fear more recently than half life 2 and I've stopped because of how boring it gets later on.

Half life 2 recycled between the aliens and human enemies but fear does not introduce any new enemy after the first chapter except the ones that go in invisible in the 2nd or 3rd chapter. Add in that nearly every location you go to looks the same and the fact that there aren't that many weapons in the game then it becomes really repetitive really fast.

Half life 2 starts out boring but finished strong while fear starts out strong and becomes incredibly boring.

Half life 2 runs flawlessly while fear is inconsistent. One times it runs perfectly then it dips everywhere. I've read it's am engine problem.
It's also why I like max Payne and played it more times than fear.

FEAR proved enemy variety isn't a necessary ingredient to an FPS, as long as the enemy AI is intelligent enough to utilize the environment in ways you can as well while being unpredictable enough to behave in ways you wouldn't originally expect, preventing most encounters from feeling overly cramped in terms of how many ways you can approach it
If you aren't trying to constantly outflank the enemy whenever possible, you're playing it wrong/poorly. Popamoling clones with your bullet time is one way to play the game, one that leaves your body armor as swiss cheese that is. Combine tight quarters with unpredictable enemy AI that has no sense of life preservation and you end up with an enjoyable game of chasing tails (if you're playing on a higher difficulty that is). F.E.A.R's level design sufficiently changes things up to not make each encounter feel straightforward, even if the art direction is too samey. F.E.A.R. is only as repetitive as you make it, nobody says Vanquish is a bland TPS popamole either.

HL2's problem is that it is a mini-game rollercoaster of the likes of Super Turrican 2 where it throws all these interesting ideas and concepts you, only to use them for a brief while before moving on to the next with the exception of the Gravity Gun. Oo, a vehicle section. Oo, a gravity gun. Oo, another vehicle section. Oo, a rawkit lawnchair. Oo, commanding antlions. Oo, commanding humans. Oo, supercharged gravity guns. Sometimes the shit it throws at the wall sticks, but sometimes it doesn't. It rarely every truly builds on stuff, and some of the main stuff that remains (shooting Combine) begs for some variation. HL2 takes a more puzzle-oriented approach to shooting where most of the time you're trying to figure out an efficient way to kill everything in your way, as the level design is linear enough to present you with glaring answers like ammo crates, explosive barrels, and so on. Even though this is antithetical to replay value (something Gayben considers useless anyways), it wouldn't have been as much of a problem if the gunfights against enemies themselves were a joy of their own. Which they aren't, namely because of the straightforward methodical way you can kill most Combine as the answer is immediately apparent. A methodical approach is again not inherently bad (see: Doom), but with little to shift you from offense to defense and vice versa (it's not really possible to flank and avoid taking damage when you're fighting in linear corridors/open areas) and little to change up the way you're thinking about killing shit (by virtue of enemy placement/enemy variety/AI), HL2 becomes too puzzle-like and setpiece-oriented for its own good. Skill is part memorization and part reflex in real-time games. It shouldn't feel like that you already have hit the skill ceiling by holding the crosshair of your SMG over Combine heads while tanking bullets. HL1 had the Marines which were fun to fight because they were one of the few enemy types you couldn't completely predict. A bit of randomization here and there like Imps not dying to one shotgun blast is good.

 

[sullynathan]

FEAR proved enemy variety isn't a necessary ingredient to an FPS, as long as the enemy AI is intelligent enough to utilize the environment in ways you can as well while being unpredictable enough to behave in ways you wouldn't originally expect, preventing most encounters from feeling overly cramped in terms of how many ways you can approach it

I disagree. Fears AI while intelligent doesn't wow the player through the entire games. That's why it got boring to me. How long did they think the player would be wowed by the AI's reactions when the locations and weapons they used remained the same throughout the whole game?
You brought up the Marines from half life and I'd even say they were done better because you didn't fight them throughout the entire game and when they did show up, the difficulty increased.

I'm not denying that it's enjoyable, I'm just saying that the enjoyment doesn't last long. If the game was cut shorter, it would have been better.

I've only played a demo of vanquish years ago but it seems to have more mechanics than fear while being more over the top.

 

[Durandal]

FEAR proved enemy variety isn't a necessary ingredient to an FPS, as long as the enemy AI is intelligent enough to utilize the environment in ways you can as well while being unpredictable enough to behave in ways you wouldn't originally expect, preventing most encounters from feeling overly cramped in terms of how many ways you can approach it

I disagree. Fears AI while intelligent doesn't wow the player through the entire games. That's why it got boring to me. How long did they think the player would be wowed by the AI's reactions when the locations and weapons they used remained the same throughout the whole game?

Do you need some shiny new thing along every corner of the way to keep you hooked? It's not so much the 'wow' factor of the AI as it is the highly variable gunfights and ensuing carnage. The more you put it like that the more it seems like you dislike one-concept-oriented games in general. There is plenty variation in terms of level layouts and the weapons you get your hands on over the period of the campaign, but shooting clones is what you'll be doing most of the time no matter what (if you don't count running around spooky sections while being haunted by a spooky girl). There are no turret sections, no boss fights, no vehicle sections, just what more do you need? You wouldn't make these same complaints about Doom WADs either.

 

[sullynathan]

Do you need some shiny new thing along every corner of the way to keep you hooked? It's not so much the 'wow' factor of the AI as it is the highly variable gunfights and ensuing carnage. The more you put it like that the more it seems like you dislike one-concept-oriented games in general. There is plenty variation in terms of level layouts and the weapons you get your hands on over the period of the campaign, but shooting clones is what you'll be doing most of the time no matter what (if you don't count running around spooky sections while being haunted by a spooky girl). There are no turret sections, no boss fights, no vehicle sections, just what more do you need? You wouldn't make these same complaints about Doom WADs either.

Well doom was more fun than fear and so was max Payne. They also had fun shooting with the variety I wanted.

 

[Eyestabber]

Meh.

If you guys want a mid 2000 shooter to replay, reinstall F.E.A.R. It's still a great game, I'm having a lot of fun.

P.S: Eat shit, Max Payne 3!

 

[Morality Games]

Is it me getting older and jaded or Half-Life 2 is one of the worst shooters?

Bad compared to games like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex or Half Life or Doom/Unreal (ergo, the Golden Age shooters), good compared with Halo and Gears or Fear.

It is basically equal with the Bioshock series by virtue of belonging to the Doom lineage of shooters. Bad, but better than everything else by virtue of having an element of resource management (Med-Pacs, batteries, ammo etc) that force you to "try" to some degree.

Episodes 1 and 2 addressed some of the issues that made Half-Life 2 bad, though.

 

[Ash]

Bad compared to games like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex or Half Life or Doom/Unreal (ergo, the Golden Age shooters), good compared with Halo and Gears or Fear.

Agree.

It is basically equal with the Bioshock series by virtue of belonging to the Doom lineage of shooters. Bad, but better than everything else by virtue of having an element of resource management (Med-Pacs, batteries, ammo etc) that force you to "try" to some degree.

Lol. Bioshock? force? All resource management is near irrelevant. There's ammo and health in abundance, and vita chambers override mostly everything that makes resource management interesting. The only reason to manage resources is to pop moles more effectively, not that it is exactly needed, and maintain the illusion it's not a complete waste of time. A playstyle that highlights how fucked it all is is to stick some melee buffs on, equip the wrench, then just run through the game bashing everything's heads in and infinitely respawning. Health? Ammo? Money? Death? Hunting down other buffs for survival? Trying new tactics or tool sets to survive? All almost entirely irrelevant with this approach.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

One of the worst is an overstatement, but it's certainly over-hyped.

 

[Morality Games]

Bad compared to games like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex or Half Life or Doom/Unreal (ergo, the Golden Age shooters), good compared with Halo and Gears or Fear.

Agree.

It is basically equal with the Bioshock series by virtue of belonging to the Doom lineage of shooters. Bad, but better than everything else by virtue of having an element of resource management (Med-Pacs, batteries, ammo etc) that force you to "try" to some degree.

Lol. Bioshock? force? All resource management is near irrelevant. There's ammo and health in abundance, and vita chambers override mostly everything that makes resource management interesting. The only reason to manage resources is to pop moles more effectively, not that it is exactly needed, and maintain the illusion it's not a complete waste of time. A playstyle that highlights how fucked it all is is to stick some melee buffs on, equip the wrench, then just run through the game bashing everything's heads in and infinitely respawning. Health? Ammo? Money? Death? Hunting down other buffs for survival? Trying new tactics or tool sets to survive? All almost entirely irrelevant with this approach.

If and only if you are good at games and/or shooters.

Most shooter fans aren't.

 

[Ash]

Well, it's standard design to have sensible resource management and consequences for death in games where you fight bad guys in some form of combat (i.e 60% of them). Half-Life 2 has resource management (health and ammo) and no respawn chambers that retain the health of enemies when you respawn.

Bioshock is decline on levels almost rivaling Gears/Halo, imo.

 

[anvi]

HL2 isn't bad, it isn't great but it isn't bad. The expansions were good though. Also I said I thought HL2 was boring after playing it weeks after release and you should have seen the tears.

 

[A horse of course]

Halo is infinitely better than Half-Life 2. Better weapons, better story, bigger environments and more tacticool wombat with the different enemy types. Lots of people on codex will refuse to accept this because they're obsessed with looking cool and are too self-conscious to appreciate a console shooter. Luckily you have people like me to tell you what's good.

 

[thesoup]

Vanquish is a popamole tps.

 

[Durandal]

Vanquish is a popamole tps.

Vanquish is only as popamole as you make it

 

[GrainWetski]

Halo is infinitely better than Half-Life 2. Better weapons, better story, bigger environments and more tacticool wombat with the different enemy types. Lots of people on codex will refuse to accept this because they're obsessed with looking cool and are too self-conscious to appreciate a console shooter. Luckily you have people like me to tell you what's good.

Literally impossible for an FPS to be good while played with a controller, so most Halo games are automatically shit.

 

[thesoup]

The only worthwhile fps is arena multiplayer fps (ut, quake, warsow, etc, you get it).

 

[Ash]

Halo is infinitely better than Half-Life 2. Better weapons, better story, bigger environments and more tacticool wombat with the different enemy types. Lots of people on codex will refuse to accept this because they're obsessed with looking cool and are too self-conscious to appreciate a console shooter. Luckily you have people like me to tell you what's good.

There are good console shooters, such as Turok 2 (later released on PC) or Duke Nukem: Zero Hour. Halo (the singleplayer at least) is pure shit.

 

[taxalot]

HL2 isn't complete garbage. At least, wasn't when the game came out. It has aged poorly, but I mostly remember three things about it that made it stand apart the competition :

1. The art style. Really, Viktor Antonov pretty much saved the game. While it seems common nowadays, the eastern europe feel of the game somehow managed to sell the game for me. It's vastly different from HL1, but I remember it to be greatly atmospheric. I couldn't help but feel engrossed in the story and various set pieces, however common they were. You can thank the art direction for that. However, every FPS after HL2 tried to do its own style, and some did it quite efficiently.
2. The engine ran very well on pretty average hardware.
3. Toying with the physics engine. While it was a gimmick in terms of gameplay in that game, wasn't it the first 3D real time game that pushed physics ? Historically, it added quite a lot.

So yes, playing it in 2017 is probably going to be a "meh" experience. It was also not revolutionary back when it came out. But calling it "shit" is a bit too much.

 

[Ash]

3. Toying with the physics engine. While it was a gimmick in terms of gameplay in that game, wasn't it the first 3D real time game that pushed physics ?

No. there were even console games (Psi Ops) pushing heavily physics based gameplay/ragdoll/havok or whatever before HL2. The physics simulation in HL2 was probably more accurate than all that had come before though, perhaps, but not anywhere near enough of a technological leap to scream viva la revolution and declare Gaben your God.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

You would be right, fear does have a few more grenades and guns than half life 2 but I disagree with the rest.

I've played fear more recently than half life 2 and I've stopped because of how boring it gets later on.

Half life 2 recycled between the aliens and human enemies but fear does not introduce any new enemy after the first chapter except the ones that go in invisible in the 2nd or 3rd chapter. Add in that nearly every location you go to looks the same and the fact that there aren't that many weapons in the game then it becomes really repetitive really fast.

Half life 2 starts out boring but finished strong while fear starts out strong and becomes incredibly boring.

Half life 2 runs flawlessly while fear is inconsistent. One times it runs perfectly then it dips everywhere. I've read it's am engine problem.
It's also why I like max Payne and played it more times than fear.

Problem with HL2 enemies is that none of them are fun to fight by themselves (unlike FEAR replicas or HL1's marines), they're just another rudimentary obstacle for you to overcome to proceed with the game (the most fun I had with them was in Ravenholm when I used saw blades with gravity gun to shoot crab zombies IIRC), HL1 had a great mix of smart marines and dumb monsters (in addition to much better weapons feel) but in HL2 both groups are near equally limited in their moveset and behaviour and are just there for you to shoot at something in-between jumping puzzles, story segments, driving sections and fucking around with gravity gun.

FEAR replicas on the other hand move around the terrain very well (can jump through windows, crawl below or jump over obstacles), throw grenades, try to flank you, run away (sometimes limping away when hurt), stop and wait in ambush when you cut down their numbers (and they're scared of rushing in) and comment on quite a lot of in-combat situations which makes them seem all the more believable. The game also allow for some flexibility in how you deal with them (rush in with shotgun and slow-mo, use cover and lean to pick them off, lure them into mines, try to outflank them, throw a grenade at them and shoot it mid-air with slow-mo, use penetrator to hang them on the walls and similar) so I don't really find them repetitive to fight, you have enough options to switch things up nearly every encounter. They shine even more in Extraction Point which compared to the original has bigger areas and more replicas attacking you which makes for some tense firefights.

This guy (sadly no longer with us) sums up FEAR's strengths the best IMO:

 

[sullynathan]

Halo (the singleplayer at least) is pure shit.

disagree

they're just another rudimentary obstacle for you to overcome to proceed with the game

That's every fps.

FEAR replicas on the other hand move around the terrain very well (can jump through windows, crawl below or jump over obstacles), throw grenades, try to flank you, run away (sometimes limping away when hurt), stop and wait in ambush when you cut down their numbers (and they're scared of rushing in) and comment on quite a lot of in-combat situations which makes them seem all the more believable. The game also allow for some flexibility in how you deal with them (rush in with shotgun and slow-mo, use cover and lean to pick them off, lure them into mines, try to outflank them, throw a grenade at them and shoot it mid-air with slow-mo, use penetrator to hang them on the walls and similar) so I don't really find them repetitive to fight, you have enough options to switch things up nearly every encounter. They shine even more in Extraction Point which compared to the original has bigger areas and more replicas attacking you which makes for some tense firefights.

This is a problem for me. I pretty much did all those things minus all the leaning within the first level then I end up doing all that shit again for the next 10 or so levels and the enemies don't change and the weapons rarely do. It becomes really boring to me. Keep in mind, I didn't finish FEAR but came really close. I don't think the game is bad or anything, I just reached half way through, realized it was boring, played some more then deleted it. I'll finish it later.

I'm already subscribed to antisocialfatman and watched his review too. If I remember correctly, he also holds half-life 2 in high regards.

 

[Multidirectional]

This guy (sadly no longer with us) sums up FEAR's strengths the best IMO:

No need for words, really.

 

[Hoplopfheil]

FEAR's Replica Soldiers were very clearly inspired by Half-Life 1's HECU Marines, just amped up with new behaviors. (Really most of the game was inspired by Half-Life, plus a bit of System Shock.)

They move around the environment and talk to each other in a similar way, but have more awareness than the HECU Marines, which makes sense since the game has 7 years on Half-Life. They're quite a bit more fun to fight than Combine Soldiers, even though the Combine have some decent AI.

Also, Halo rules.

 

[Eyestabber]

This guy (sadly no longer with us) sums up FEAR's strengths the best IMO:

No need for words, really.

Video is cool, but the guy is clearly playing at a very low difficulty setting. Also, If you told a modern console kid that there was a game that allowed to to do a slow-mo bicicle/slide kick followed by shotting a dude in the face several times while he is in the air and it was NOT a bullshit one-button takedown, but rather an actual in-game mechanic the kid wouldn't believe you. Because shooters DEvolved from the original F.E.A.R. And I'm including the mediocre sequels (FEAR 2 and 3). Also...

A highly advanced alien species managed to show the player's feet in an FPS game. Sadly, such advanced technology was lost when said alien civilization mysteriously vanished.

EDIT: Also, here is a pretty fair review of FEAR