Fallout Is Fallout: New Vegas a worthy Fallout game?

[Sigourn]

Basically that. A lot of users around the Internet seem to believe that RPG Codex and NMA are a hatejerk about the 3D Fallout games.

So I ask: for the RPG Codex, is New Vegas a good Fallout game, or another rooty-tooty-point-n-shooty hiking simulator?

Its position in the Top 70 RPGs list is a clear indication on what people think of the game, but I'd rather have a straight answer that doesn't really on voting among different games.

My opinion: it definitely is.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I think New Vegas would be better if it wasn't a gamebryo game.

 

[Sigourn]

I think New Vegas would be better if it wasn't a gamebryo game.

Would you say the problem is Gamebryo, or that it is a 3D game? In other words: would you think it is possible to have a 3D Fallout game that lives up to the originals, or isometric (or any other perspective that's better fit for an RPG, based on dicerolls) is a deal breaker for you?

 

[Tigranes]

3D and perspective aren't inherently problematic, the FPS stuff detracts from the spirit of the franchise, the shitty broken bullet timey vats system is just bad mechanics for any game.

NV is a fine Fallout game, and can be understood as an extension of Fallout 2 - the 'over'developed Wasteland, the zanyness, trading in a dilution of the sparse Wasteland feel for a richer vein of pop America content.

 

[Roqua]

It is a spinoff of the real fallout games. Is that Buffy whatever spinoff a worthy Buffy Series? No, because it isn't Buffy, it is a spinoff of Buffy. I wish people could be less retarded here and think critically about pretty much anything. If you like something doesn't mean you have to be blind to logic or reason.

Could Obsidian have hired Tim Cain to give their spinoff game credibility and make it a real fallout? Yes, but they didn't. They chose to make a game with the same meaningless chargen, and same meaningless chardev in the same shitty spirit of the Bethesda Fallout spin-offs. Is NV closer to FO3 or the real fallouts? FO3 by a mile. So it is actually a FO3 spinoff and not even a real Fallout spinoff.

I'd bet my ballsack that Tim Cain would have ensured that stats mattered and did something, and chardev also did something and mattered. And he would have made the game good. And I'd bet my ballsack and penis he wouldn't allow some travesty console UI to ship on pc games and it would have a working, functional pc GUI and hotkeys and all the whole shebang.

Lastly, I hate you monkey savages so much it hurts.

 

[Sigourn]

It is a spinoff of the real fallout games. Is that Buffy whatever spinoff a worthy Buffy Series? No, because it isn't Buffy, it is a spinoff of Buffy. I wish people could be less retarded here and think critically about pretty much anything. If you like something doesn't mean you have to be blind to logic or reason.

Could Obsidian have hired Tim Cain to give their spinoff game credibility and make it a real fallout? Yes, but they didn't. They chose to make a game with the same meaningless chargen, and same meaningless chardev in the same shitty spirit of the Bethesda Fallout spin-offs. Is NV closer to FO3 or the real fallouts? FO3 by a mile. So it is actually a FO3 spinoff and not even a real Fallout spinoff.

I'd bet my ballsack that Tim Cain would have ensured that stats mattered and did something, and chardev also did something and mattered. And he would have made the game good. And I'd bet my ballsack and penis he wouldn't allow some travesty console UI to ship on pc games and it would have a working, functional pc GUI and hotkeys and all the whole shebang.

Lastly, I hate you monkey savages so much it hurts.

Would you say the problem is poor execution, or that it is a 3D game? In other words: would you think it is possible to have a 3D Fallout game that lives up to the originals, or isometric (or any other perspective that's better fit for an RPG, based on dicerolls) is a deal breaker for you?

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I don't think it being 3D is a problem at all. Maybe it being a first person shooter, possibly. But most of the issues seem to stem from gamebryo and the pre-existing bethesda engine architecture. If obsidian had chosen to make Fallout: New Vegas a 'Fallout' game, instead of a 'Fallout 3' game, it probably most likely would have been better.

 

[shihonage]

The engine renders it practically unplayable. A horrendous abomination.

 

[Roqua]

It is a spinoff of the real fallout games. Is that Buffy whatever spinoff a worthy Buffy Series? No, because it isn't Buffy, it is a spinoff of Buffy. I wish people could be less retarded here and think critically about pretty much anything. If you like something doesn't mean you have to be blind to logic or reason.

Could Obsidian have hired Tim Cain to give their spinoff game credibility and make it a real fallout? Yes, but they didn't. They chose to make a game with the same meaningless chargen, and same meaningless chardev in the same shitty spirit of the Bethesda Fallout spin-offs. Is NV closer to FO3 or the real fallouts? FO3 by a mile. So it is actually a FO3 spinoff and not even a real Fallout spinoff.

I'd bet my ballsack that Tim Cain would have ensured that stats mattered and did something, and chardev also did something and mattered. And he would have made the game good. And I'd bet my ballsack and penis he wouldn't allow some travesty console UI to ship on pc games and it would have a working, functional pc GUI and hotkeys and all the whole shebang.

Lastly, I hate you monkey savages so much it hurts.

Would you say the problem is poor execution, or that it is a 3D game? In other words: would you think it is possible to have a 3D Fallout game that lives up to the originals, or isometric (or any other perspective that's better fit for an RPG, based on dicerolls) is a deal breaker for you?

What is a deal breaker for me is mechanics and spirit. I do not the Diablo games, but I respect Diablo 3 for being isometric. No one saw that coming and it kind of paves the way for other games to throw off the 3d yolk of stupid that has been forced on us for over a decade.

By mechanics I mean does it model the mechanics of the orginal, or enhance them, but not lower the standards or strip them or ignore them? No, chargen is 100% meaningless in all the fake FO spinoffs I played. Chardev is the same. Both were huge deals dramatically impacting both real FOs. Both real FOs were TB. There are a million thinsg like this. If Diablo 4 was made by Irontower and was TB would you consider it a worthy successor or a spinoff? What Bethesda has done is basically made Diablo into a first person, full 3d TB, party based crpg with all the crpg traditions and sensibilities that Diablo isn't know for. That is not worthy of a continuation of the series.

By spirit I have two stipulations. If you are going to have the audacity to call a game a Fallout game and the creator and mastermind of the series is not just alive and kicking, but young, handsome, a game design genius, and basically the greatest person alive why would you not hire him? I'm sure he would love lead designer or whatever the title is called salary at the Bethesda corporation. Since FO is and always will be his, he can do whatever he wants with it. He can make it a detective noire set in WW1 with alien rapists and giant penis bombs and no one can really complain that he doesn't have the right.

OR - if you are going to buy the IP at least have the respect to stick to the spirit of the originals. This would mean if someone makes Diablo 4 it should be an isometric view arpg with focus on looting and random dungeons or whatever Diablo is known for. This also means if you are making FO3 you make it mechanically and spiritually significant to the real ones.

Star Wars episode 7 was by someone not George Lucas. Imagine if he made a movie so different than what Lucas has established Star Wars to be, but loosely based on his universe but was all crazy and made no sense and was aimed at toddlers and was more like of those Baby Einstein videos than a Star Wars movie, would that be worthy?

What we have is people who love Baby Einstein saying yes it is worthy. Well, fuck you guys. I could love Baby Einstein and still think a Star Wars baby Einstein movie called Episode 7 is still not really episode 7.

 

[nomask7]

New Vegas seems to have a lot of freedom with regards to faction dynamics and how to advance, quite possibly more than the original Fallouts but I can't remember and probably didn't know them that well anyway. But it also has weird issues like armor being expensive as fuck to repair, and not being able to use power armor without acquiring the training for it. When playing the original Fallouts, I don't remember having to avoid using better armor due to not having the money to maintain it, regardless of my playstyle (i.e. regardless of if I sped through the main story or spent a lot of time exploring and shit). If I had the awesome stats needed to wear it, I could wear it, and it didn't break down after a couple of fights and become useless. I'm not sure what Obsidian was getting at with this sort of thing, maybe I'm just missing something or maybe they balanced the game for the internet era, assuming that everyone would read guides and whatnot.

 

[Black Angel]

While I had the 'luxury' of experiencing New Vegas right before Fallout 1&2 (and thus, having experienced the narrative and quests designs), I would say it's better than Bethesda's attempt but still doesn't live up to the original. Iirc, Tim Cain and co once stated that they made the game first and foremost Turn-Based.

New Vegas certainly plays better than Fallout 3, but the engine is still the shittiest piece of shit in existence and, not only the engine limited its' capability as a game, but also remember the fact that it was also made for console and, thus, designed around its' limitation.

Before you ask, no, being 3D is not exactly the problem. Tim Cain and co at Troika once made an engine for a Fallout game, in which the engine made it possible to switch between Top-Down perspective and First-Person. Might turn out to be buggy, but because of that I'd assume Tim Cain would at least be okay with making a 3D Fallout game.

 

[Lhynn]

Fallout new vegas is better than 2 and almost on par with 1.

 

[Ash]

"I think the main difference from FO3 to FNV is how FNV clearly seems to a game where the devs gave a shit and really pushed the engine as much as they could."

Eh? Engine-wise and what they demanded from it is almost identical to FO3. The big difference is in pure game design, which is just superior in every single way. Better systems, better writing, better world design, better C&C etc etc.

 

[aweigh]

it's probably the best Fallout game in the series.

completely different genre than the first two games, tho.

 

[Blackstaff]

The engine is a disaster : the mecanics behind the compagnions is atrocious and the combat gameplay is insipid. Really hard to go beyond that.

 

[B0rt]

Everything but the combat was OK or better, though I understand the game was really buggy & unstable at launch. The plot was actually almost proper fallout, at least no worse than FO2. On the other hand you never get to harass a shopkeeper as thoroughly as you can that one guy in FO2 & it turns out I really missed doing that. Or the IQ tests versus the radscorpion, idk I was kinda OK with some of that stuff.

I feel bad for those who played it unmodded -- once customers actually finished the game for Bethesda the world map looked pretty good! You could get persistent caravans travelling around, random NPCs out in the wasteland doing their things, large farms around New Vegas, more people / more fun inside the casinos, better shops, gear, & fake economy. Unlike FO4 it was still a decent game when played vanilla, but with a little re-jiggering New Vegas really springs to life.

 

[Ivan]

what I remember most about New Vegas is its characters: boone, house, fantastic, raul, cass, the survivor, ulysses, joshua, I could go on. In doing so I think it added something special to the legacy of Fallout that I don't think 1 or 2 achieved.

to the person above who said NV>F2, the only thing I can say is I have definite memories of NV and 1 but not so much 2, save for Myron. Well there is the memory of the final boss, what a joke.

 

[Darth Roxor]

nop

 

[valcik]

By mechanics I mean does it model the mechanics of the orginal, or enhance them, but not lower the standards or strip them or ignore them? No, chargen is 100% meaningless in all the fake FO spinoffs I played.

Yep, it's greatly dumbed down in terms of mechanics. Skill-checks based on random virtual dice rolls added to character's skill have been replaced by consoletardeous mechanics instead - there are hard skill thresholds for science or lockpick for instance, when you have to undergo minigame in order to open lock or hack terminal after reaching the skill threshold. Unlike in the original Fallout, the game doesn't check the character's skill and luck anymore in order to open lock or hack terminal, but relies on player's nimble fingers instead. This is not true RPG mechanics at all.

 

[undecaf]

New Vegas is better than Bethesda's shit, but it's not on par with the original two. The Bethesdian sandbox FPS design just doesn't translate well for Fallout.

 

[Ivan]

Beyond The Beef

 

[FeelTheRads]

My opinion: it definitely is.

Nobody cares what's your "opinion".

And the UI sucks, therefore it's a shit game, no? Oh, right, this probably has a good UI in your "opinion".

Also this:

The engine renders it practically unplayable. A horrendous abomination.

 

[Fargus]

Yes, it is. For all the good time i had with it i can even forgive all technical problems caused by that abortion of an engine: gamebryo.

My favorite is still Fallout 2 though.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Just played it last night with Autumn leaves mod. I think that New Vegas sets new standards for RPG's : outstanding quests with so much reactivity. It's something that modern RPG's forgot to include or don't have the ambition to do it because the average players won't see them. The last interview at PAX (Obsidian) talks a lot about this and even Josh Sawyer is saying that they first designed New Vegas to have in mind the possibility of killing every NPC.
Going back to Autumn Leaves and the engine, sure it has limitations, it was a mess at launch and still is, but it helped madders release such amazing mods that I don't recall any another RPG with such amount of content even after so many years.
I am somehow obsessed with Isometric games, but I can't imagine New Vegas played in another perspective. 1st person really helps immersion while isometric really helps games be more tactical.
Is this the Fallout 3 we should have had? No, I think that Underrail is the closest one that we are going to get.

 

[Sranchammer]

1 > NV > 2