Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Is a true "MMORPG renaissance" possible?

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by Lurker47, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Lurker47gender: ⚧ Novice

    Lurker47
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Parrots:
    65
    Location:
    Sleepyland
    Click here and disable ads!
    Do you think an MMO without subscriptions or microtransactions could be profitable? (at most, DLC?) The insane priciness is one of the big things keeping the MMO out of the MMORPG. Sunk cost tends to affect the type of playerbase and in turn, often influences the kind of game. WoW being the prime example of this.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. ColonelTeacupgender: ⚧ Educated

    ColonelTeacup
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Parrots:
    313
    The problem isn't profitability. The problem is companies want maximum profit margins at any cost and an unwillingness to deviate from the WoW playstyle. A cosmetics shop or weapons skin shop could make enough money, especially if the game has a small one time fee to purchase it. But companies don't want just profitability, they want maximum profit, similarly to how even World of Warcraft now has a cosmetics, and pet shop, alongside their subscription based game, which you also need to purchase beforehand.

    Also, the answers no. Welcome to the decline.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Lurker47gender: ⚧ Novice

    Lurker47
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Parrots:
    65
    Location:
    Sleepyland
    :negative:
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Parrots:
    7,135
    I'm really skeptical how such a thing could be maintained. MMOs incur continuous costs of operating that require some kind of continuous income stream, so I can't see how profit could be generated in this day and age unless you want to try to fund the game entirely on advertising...or by trying to extract a cut from the gold sellers, essentially charging them protection money not to interfere with their activities.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,418
    I don't understand your use of sunk cost. Put simply sunk cost is used in finance to determine if a current project is feasible only considering what you would have to spend going forward and not any of the money already spent. The money already spent is sunk, so considering this what are the new forecasts for only new money and resources and opportunity costs.

    I honestly think there is an mmorpg renaissance right around the corner. But, it is the renaissance of function over form. This isn't a renaissance for people who watch people play video games over the internet, or decide if a game is worth checking out by how many people are watching other people play a game. The old model of big named, systems and content heavy mmorpgs I think are dead, or at least full blown Oriental, which is the same for people with any taste.

    Why is this you ask? Because of how the two groups minds work. The ones who are interested in super graphics and big todo big names "oh my god everyone is watching people play it" do not fit the traditional mmorpgs. MMorpgs cost a ton and take a ton of money to make. Why go through all that when you can cut all the systems and content and make a "survival" game. Or "sandbox" game with crafting and "player driven economy" and not have to worry about that expensive content. Especially when everyone is going to shit on it anyways, like with every mmorpg since WoW. But you will have your console mmos with super lite tacked on rpg elements like Destiny and Division for your content needs, as conolse games made for fucking kids and idiots never get critised for writing or quests or whatever you retards complain about and viciously attack real crpgs for getting wrong.

    Wildstar was the last. Everything since and going forward (if anything) will be Oriental like Black Ship or whatever that last big super kid emo one that came out was called.

    All the new mmorpgs will not have the graphical fidelity to appeal to the majority of the people on this site. And since mmorpgs require content, that will also mean everyone hates it because it is [insert platitudes and hyperbole]. So, mmorpgs are coming out that look great to me like Crow something, whatever Shards is now called, Arcfall, the two new super hero games, etc. A shit ton look great and all focus on systems and mechanics and are character build heavy. And, for people with good taste there are still the greats still going strong like DDO and AO.

    I am just hoping and praying the main mmorpg audience interested in these games won't do them like they do real crpgs that come out like they did to WL2, TToN, etc, during the crpg renaissance.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. I'm With Her Scruffygender: ⚧ for prison The janitor Patron

    Scruffy
    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Parrots:
    15,264
    Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
    the last what?
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Lurker47gender: ⚧ Novice

    Lurker47
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Parrots:
    65
    Location:
    Sleepyland
    ^ Top  
  8. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Parrots:
    7,135
    He's saying that people keep playing shitty games because they've already put too much into playing it and don't want to lose their stuff by quitting.

    Personally, I don't think that's reflective of why they do it, though. The real reason they do it is that any alternative must necessarily be worse, because entropy must always increase. Therefore, status quo is always preferrable to any change you didn't cause, because net entropy must always increase: Anything that simply happens must necessarily be worse.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Beastrogender: ⚧ Magister

    Beastro
    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,677
    I don't get that problem, but I've long stopped playing "current" MMOs.

    With EQ prog servers the only thing lost is whatever expansions you missed that got released while you were gone, catching up, especially if you have buddies playing the nostalgia trip with you, is super easy and gets easier as expansions go along.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,418
    The last of the western big budget fancy graphics traditional mmorpgs with all the systems and content.

    I did not as it wasn't clear. And I have not until now connected that people may play a game they don't like because they put time into it. And I didn't connect it, Norfleet explained it. I use sunk cost in my work in the traditional way and honestly didn't know it was used outside of it.

    I play mmorpgs more as single player games and quit as soon as I get bored. It is hard to understand what crazy idiots do when you are sane. Playing a game you don't like because you have been playing it is just pure insanity of the highest order. The sane view of a game and viewing it as a waste would be time playing a game you do not enjoy. Not seeing time not played as wasted if you don't continue wasting it playing a game you dislike.

    Also, just as another point, the more traditional rpgs being made, like Camelot Unchained and the other big one from the Vanguard guy, have shit graphics too. No traditional mmorpgs are being made with fancy graphics unless they are being made in the Orient.

    Why would Blizzard make a new mmorpg when they can make no content games that kids and adults with shit taste love for 1/10th the cost and time with mobas and TCGs? Why would Funcom when it can make more money on a survival game? Why would whatever SOE is called now when it makes more money with a survival/moba game?

    Like with real rpgs on this site, the supposed fans of mmorpgs do nothing but bash the ones that came out, like with Wildstar. Sure, they have their platitudes and hyperbole to explain why they hate it, but hate it they do. The less content a game has when it is made in the west the higher the chance for it to be a megahit who the people claiming to be mmorpg fans will play and not attack ruthlessly. The same goes with rpgs. That is why the steam best seller page for rpgs looks like it does. And the one for mmos. Only oriental games and super rpg lite console games or hipster games that are super casual are not attacked by brutal cultists.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Lurker47gender: ⚧ Novice

    Lurker47
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Parrots:
    65
    Location:
    Sleepyland
    Yeah, it's alright. It's really just my fault.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. I'm With Her Scruffygender: ⚧ for prison The janitor Patron

    Scruffy
    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Parrots:
    15,264
    Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
    wildstar was still boring and generic though

    in my personal opinion, the main problems are:

    - catering to kids

    when you do that, when you get too "casual" oriented and try to immediately reward the player, you're ruining your own game and there's no way back from that

    - wikis tied to a "never changing" nature of the game

    if you can look up how to find X, and you always find X in the same spot, the game becomes about min-maxing rather than enjoying the ride. A more "random" approach to quests and spawn areas and such keep it fresh and possibly more challenging

    - no one does crafting/economy right

    Won't go too into details about this, you know what I mean, you have a character, and then you have a farming character, and then you have a crafting character, and economy becomes pointless

    - even if the game is acceptable, russians and brazilians ruin everything anyway

    ban those ip ranges
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Racist Racist x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. TheSentinelgender: ⚧ Liturgist

    TheSentinel
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Parrots:
    1,729
    Location:
    Ommadawn
    No. Online gaming has been dehumanized, and the genres that suffered the most were probably the MMORPGs and FPS.

    Nowadays in MMOs they're all queue simulators where you log on, press the "Looking for Group" button and do dailies while the server matches you with 3 other random people. You get on the instance, complete the objective with no interaction between each other and the group disbands afterwards. You'll never see them again, and even if you do you won't even recognize them.

    In FPS, the matchmaking systems completely killed off server browsers and the communities that formed around them. Whereas even 10 years ago everyone would have their home server and other favourite servers with custom configs to fuck around with, servers where you'd log on and instantly recognize that faggot topping the scoreboard and where you felt like home, now what you have is competitive matchmaking cancer where you're matched with 9 other people who 9/10 will start raging immediately as soon as the match starts because you don't follow some gay meta they see on twitch.

    It's sad.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  14. I'm With Her Severian Silkgender: ⚧ for prison Arcane

    Severian Silk
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Parrots:
    4,419
    Maybe some super AI some day will make a really good MMO possible. Or lots of user generated content and an natural/emergent way to filter for quality. Until then, all MMOs will suck.

    Also the issue of high ping/transmission times makes some game models unrealizable. We need some way to break the C barrier.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Grorious Readergender: ⚧ Literate

    Grorious Reader
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2017
    Parrots:
    15
    Most of us with bad internet connections haven't even hit that barrier in the first place.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Parrots:
    7,135
    Since the abilty to travel faster than light would mean the ability to travel through time, the obvious solution if such a thing could be done would simply be to go back in time to when MMOs weren't shit.
     
    • Salute Salute x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Data4gender: ⚧ Arcane

    Data4
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Parrots:
    4,993
    Location:
    Over there.
    The problem with that is that people are absolute cunts. I haven't played an MMO in over 3 years, but one of the reasons why I stopped playing is because I hated playing with others and even the catering to solo play lost its appeal. When UO and EQ1 first came out, the idea was to have cooperative play with other people in the same vein as old tabletop sessions, but that will never happen in a mainstream game. The few people out there who actually aren't cunts might as well be unicorns. Why pay for the privilege of having someone's parental failure ruin your time?

    MMOs need to just fucking disappear for 5 years and start over.
     
    • Edgy Edgy x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Parrots:
    7,135
    Other people are so incredibly bad and unreliable that, outside of my immediate fambly members, I end up just having to multibox the entire team. This isn't some kind of new thing, either. I was doing this back during the days of MUDs, too.

    I mean, just look at my current shit MMO: All the other players, even from a group as esteemed as the Codex, have all fled, leaving me with nothing but Drakron and Helpie. You think I can make a team out of THAT?
     
    ^ Top  
  19. something that sounds manlygender: ⚧ Savant

    something that sounds manly
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Parrots:
    638
    Turns out virtual reality and other fancy cyberpunk fantasies are just a nerd's daydream and internet is best used to order pizza and debate politics.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Cudgelgender: ⚧ Learned Patron

    Cudgel
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Parrots:
    209
    Location:
    Inside
    You realize the reason Camelot Unchained looks like "shit" is that the engine is being optimized to have hundreds of players at once. And really the graphics are not bad.

    I knew you had many problems, but I did not think being a graphics whore was one of them.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,418
    Why do dummies talk to me? I don't give a shit about graphics, which is obvious from actually reading what I wrote. Games with top notch graphics (what you console retards consider shit graphics) are made for fucking retards like all you young kids and optimized for no thinking and controllers, just how the dummies like it. Your assessment of the game's graphics as being "not that bad" is how I feel about pretty much every game that doesn't have ascii graphics.

    I really wish you little kids learned to read and understand. This century there has never been one great game with top notch graphics. Graphics costs too much to make a game good and have console crowd appeal. It has never happened and will never happen unless graphics become much cheaper. All console top notch graphics games are shit because they are made for people like you guys, who don't like thinking so there is only rpg lite elements, no thought low impact chardev, no challenge, shit UI for controllers, and gameplay simple enough all the kids want to watch other people play it on the internet. Because to you fucking scum sucking retards who post on this site for no good reason a good game can be determined by seeing how many people are watching other people play it online. If enough sheep and children play it then its good. Hipsterism ats its best doing its best to destroy the genre all over again.
     
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Cudgelgender: ⚧ Learned Patron

    Cudgel
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Parrots:
    209
    Location:
    Inside
    Why don't you like ASCII graphics ? They are very good.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,418
    How was it boring and generic? In what ways specifically? Saying platitudes without actual information may be how the kids like it, but I expect more to take you seriously. Wildstar didn't do well because it was actually difficult. All the dummies and baddies couldn't even complete the leveling dungeons, nevermind cap dungeons, and all the big raiding guilds left because the raids were too difficult.

    As to boring and generic, I am failing to see how. It did everything different and had tons of unique features. Did you like wow? Or pretty much every mmorpg up to that time besides Tera? Because the combat in Wildstar was far less boring than in every other mmorpg I played. Same with the leveling, movement systems, and dungeons. As well as the chardev.

    I'm not saying you couldn't find it boring and generic - I just need more than platitudes and hyperbole to understand where you are coming from.
     
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. YES!gender: ⚧ Hi, I'm Roqua

    YES!
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Parrots:
    1,418
    Why don't you like posting on general game sites instead of a site supposedly meant for rpg fans with brains? That is not very sensible.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. something that sounds manlygender: ⚧ Savant

    something that sounds manly
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Parrots:
    638
    "Saying platitudes without actual information..." then proceed to use phrases like "Did you like wow? blahblah" instead of actually explaining what is not boring and generic.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)