Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Games with great equipment systems? (Best loot whoring games?)

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Stabwound, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Stabwoundgender: ⚧ Magister

    Stabwound
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Parrots:
    3,241
    Click here and disable ads!
    What are the best loot whoring games, in your opinion? It's hard to say exactly what would qualify a game as having a good loot whoring system, but I guess it would be one that is interesting, where finding new shit actually feels exciting and isn't just a small, incremental upgrade.

    Diablo 3 is a recent game that does this completely wrong. Almost none of the equipment is interesting, the modifiers suck, and you don't even rely on your own finds anymore. There's no reason to search for equipment when you can go to the auction house and buy something with 4x the stats for 10,000 gold (very small amount) that you'd ever find.

    There are a bunch of roguelikes that do this very well. For example, Crawl:

    -Variety of weapon types that are all viable and different
    -Lots of interesting modifiers, no real "best" ones (example, vampiric weapons drain life on hit but the tradeoff is massive hunger increase)
    -Unique equipment with unique attributes (example, a sword that causes enemy corpses to rise as zombies around you)
    -Good items can often be found in difficult areas, giving incentive to try to clear them
    -No frequent, incremental upgrades: you'll sometimes find good equipment early on that you'll use for the entire game

    Angband also has an interesting artifact system. Here's an example of an artifact ring:

    There probably are no non-roguelike games that are quite as good with this as the above examples, but I just wanted to list them as an example of a great equipment system.

    What other traditional CRPGs (or action RPGs/roguelikes) that have great equipment systems?
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Make America Great Again Outlandergender: ⚧ Custom Tags Are For Fags. Patron

    Outlander
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Parrots:
    3,435
    Location:
    Valley of Mines
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Hard to say, in my opinion Gothic 1 and 2 qualify.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. octaviusgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Parrots:
    10,333
    Location:
    Bjørgvin
    The Might and Magic games. Especially MM2 and MM6.
    Diablo 1 and 2.

    "Random" is the key word.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Stabwoundgender: ⚧ Magister

    Stabwound
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Parrots:
    3,241
    Really? When I played G1/2 I felt like the equipment system was one of the weak points. Unless I'm remembering wrong, virtually all of your equipment comes from shops other than rings/amulets, and there is very little of it it to boot. Few slots, (armor, weapon, ring, amulet) with few choices. I think I upgraded my armor about 2-3 times over the entire Gothic 1 campaign. G2 is better in this regard, but still not that great.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. Surf Solargender: ⚧ cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Parrots:
    8,511
    Jagged Alliance 2, especially with the 1.13 mod. In Baldurs Gate 1 new items and especially magic stuff was a lot more rare so it felt cool to find something good too.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Parrots:
    11,368
    I'll second Angband.

    I'll throw this out there because it's very incremental in a major way, but is still very interesting: Record of Lodoss War.

    While there are a ton of base items to be found, their stats are secondary to how you build them up. Using a weapon as an example:

    Say it's a long sword. It has 100% speed, does 20 damage, has 10 points of knockback and knockdown. 10% chance to crit for 50% more damage. Now you can modify ANY of this shit. To a huge degree. There is an exponential rise in cost for increasing the same attribute, but the rise is not so rapid as to make it non viable. So you might focus on damage. Say you raise the damage by 400%, now the sword hits for 100. Then you raise speed slightly, by 10%. You don't touch crit.

    Now you find a new weapon, a giant ass fucking mace. It has 80 base damage, 60% speed, 50 knockback and 80 knockdown, and no crit chance or multiplier. Now your enchantments can be transferred to this weapon, but they're multipliers, so you get 66% speed, 400 damage, etc. Then you find a different weapon, which has mostly average stats, but insane crit numbers, 40% chance and +200% damage. Maybe now you want to focus on raising the crit stats. Or maybe you keep the mace and work on knockdown? Maybe you keep working on speed and hope to find a really fast weapon. Or you work on the speed because combined with the high knockback of the mace you can stunlock enemies, and don't give a fuck when you find a fast rapier style weapon.

    The game has an absolute shitload of stats, something like 10 equipment slots, about half of which you can enchant this way, and each of those slots can also be enchanted with a special exclusive effect. So you can choose between lifesteal, or double knockdown, or +50% hp, or instant death to lizardmen for your sword. And you can swap those out in town.

    Fucking amazing game for loot whoring. The entire thrill of the game is running around to side dungeons because you want to unlock one more piece of equipment or one more enchantment to put on your stuff. Some stuff is unlocked by capping the previous enchantment, like putting 10 levels of +1 damage on a weapon unlocks +2 damage. However, these usually stop at some point, so you can't use the damage +5 enchant until you find it somewhere. And you can't get fire resistance at all until you find it somewhere. The special stuff like lifesteal or +50% hp has to be found too.

    Fucking awesome system. Wish the team had made a dozen more games like it instead of just 2 animu ones (which still have pretty decent loot systems but awful atmosphere.)

    Edit: I have scoured the internet and found no pictures of the fucking status screen to convey the number of stats to fuck with. Suffice to say, the status screen has multiple pages with ~ a dozen stats per page.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Make America Great Again Renegengender: ⚧ Arcane

    Renegen
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Parrots:
    4,024
    I always liked the items in Wizardry 8, they don't shy away from providing you with powerful instruments of violence.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Make America Great Again Outlandergender: ⚧ Custom Tags Are For Fags. Patron

    Outlander
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Parrots:
    3,435
    Location:
    Valley of Mines
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    Oh yeah, I actually appreciated the design choice of not actually inundate you with loot. As you know G1 was set in a prison colony so I think it fits. Plus if you're playing for the first time money doesn't come that easy.

    Each faction has 3 sets of armor, but there are also the ones you can get before joining them, and the special ones that come in the last chapters, some of these can be upgraded too.

    As for the slots, you can equip 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon, armor, 2 rings, and necklace but no head gear (you can in G2, along with belts) Shields only in G3.

    And the best loot is out there to find, not in shops, which makes the whole item-hunting more rewarding since G1 (especially) and G2 are fucking unforgiving to careless explorers.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Stabwoundgender: ⚧ Magister

    Stabwound
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Parrots:
    3,241
    Awesome, I've never heard of this game and now I want to play it. I'm going to check it out right now.

    :bro:
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Make America Great Again Humanity has risen!gender: ⚧ Arcane Patron Repressed Homosexual

    Humanity has risen!
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Parrots:
    12,294
    Location:
    Ottawa, Can.
    I really loved Divine Divinity in this regard.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. ironyurigender: ⚧ Guest

    ironyuri
    Dungeon Siege 3.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Make America Great Again Johannesgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Johannes
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Parrots:
    9,780
    Location:
    casting coach
    Arcanum as a techie, but you're probably already familiar with that.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  13. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Parrots:
    11,368
    I suppose it might help to mention it was released on the Dreamcast then. Dunno how good emulators have gotten for that. Someone's probably made something decent by now.

    Edit: I kind of want to play it again myself now.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. LoPangender: ⚧ Learned

    LoPan
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Parrots:
    479
    Parasite Eve.

    It ran very much in the Japanese tradition, meaning it threw reason down the chute and with good results. You would improve your weapons by destroying one weapon to improve the other. Each weapon type had a base output to damage and shots per turn, and some had certain attributes (and a specific number of attribute slots) such as burst fire. If you found a gun with burst fire you could use up (dismantle) it to put its burst fire ability on another gun. After its base statistics a gun could amass a series of pluses by using up other guns, transferring the pluses of those guns onto the desired gun. This also made it possible to dismantle a well put together gun you've used for ages onto another gun model with other abilities and still retain the build-up of pluses, making loot constantly desirable and making exploration the persistent theme of the game.

    It is difficult to explain the complexities of the faux turn-based combat system which made this loot system so interesting, so I'm afraid I'll leave it at that.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. DemonKinggender: ⚧ Arcane

    DemonKing
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Parrots:
    2,565
    I always liked the original BG and IWD (pre-HOF). Magic equipment was especially interesting with unique backgrounds. Shops had a set amount of high end gear which you could save for. There was also some nice equipment Easter eggs like the Ankheg armour you could forge. The actual inventory system wasn't that great, being based on encumberance and everything from platemail to a ring taking up the same amount of "space" in your inventory grid, but it was kind of nice to be walking around with kit with a real background than a bunch of generic "plus wun" weapons and armour at the end of the game.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Gregzgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gregz
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Parrots:
    4,643
    Location:
    The Desert Wasteland
    Diablo II Median XL mod
    Zangband
    Borderlands
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Gregzgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gregz
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Parrots:
    4,643
    Location:
    The Desert Wasteland
    Which system did you play this on? (please quote or alert me as I'm not watching this thread and really want to try that game)
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Parrots:
    11,368
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Gregzgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gregz
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Parrots:
    4,643
    Location:
    The Desert Wasteland
    :salute:
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Make America Great Again lefthandblackgender: ⚧ Arcane

    lefthandblack
    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Parrots:
    778
    Hellgate London, IMO has the best loot ever. It's what made me play through the otherwise mediocre to horrible rest of the game twice. People that have played lots of MMO's might find this type of system tiresome and overdone, but due to geography I've never been able to play an MMO, so the game scratches an itch that I've not been able to scratch otherwise.

    The variety and number of weapon upgrades had me 'farming' in a single player game just to try and find better upgrades to 'splode demons and undead more efficiently.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Make America Great Again deuxherogender: ⚧ Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Parrots:
    6,990
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    Fire Emblem always had an OK system. Everything has a fixed number of uses and normal weapons are common and relatively cheep, but you also get a few unique weapons that are stronger, generally with special effects ("triple damage against heavy armor and cavalry" that only the main character can use is one that shows up in most games) that still had limited uses, making rationing them important. It's a strategy series with limited resources (including XP and gold due to finite enemies due to finite levels) though, and it would not translate to a cRPG at all.

    Nocturne was also interesting. The only equipable items are demonic leaches you stick in your eye socket. They change around your elemental resists (plus minor stat bonuses) and skills you learn at level up.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. FUDUgender: ⚧ Cipher

    FUDU
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Parrots:
    925
    Location:
    COLD POTATO
    Two Worlds has a great loot system. It was a lot of fun.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Parrots:
    11,368
    Going to give honourable mention to the crafting in Legend of Mana. The items themselves are pretty fucking boring (just boring damage increase, and not even much of a damage increase without some massive crafting investment) but the crafting system is so deep and involved you're better off copying down a recipe involving dozens of different types and steps, and total ingredient number in the hundreds, than actually learning the fucking rules, which would take far longer.

    Example mid level recipe:

    Show Spoiler

    3 Glow crystal
    1 Jinn Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    2 Jinn Silver
    3 Mercury
    1 Jinn Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0
    1 Chaos Crystal
    2 Undine Silver
    2 Mercury
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0
    4 Holy Water <------------- Needed to clear rows because mercury!
    4 Mercury
    1 Jinn Silver
    1 Jinn Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 8 2

    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 8 6
    4 Holy Water <------------- Needed to clear rows because mercury!
    4 Mercury
    1 Jinn Silver
    1 Jinn Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 9 3
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal

    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    3 Mercury
    1 Undine Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 9 7
    4 Mercury
    1 Jinn Silver
    1 Jinn Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 0 0 9 4
    (3 Glow Crystal
    (2 Sala Silver
    (4 Glow Crystal
    (1 Sala Silver
    (3 Sulphur
    (1 Sala Gold

    (3 Glow Crystal*
    (2 Sala Silver*
    (2 Glow Crystal*
    (1 Sala Silver*
    (3 Sulpher*
    (1 Sala Gold* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 7 0 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    2 Gnome Silver*
    2 Sulpher*
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    1 Gnome Silver* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 7 5 9 0
    4 Holy Water* <------------ Needed to clear rows because Sulpher!
    4 Sulpher*
    1 Sala Silver*
    1 Sala Gold* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 8 2 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    1 Gnome Silver*
    3 Glow Crystal*
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    1 Gnome Silver*
    3 Glow Crystal* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 9 0 9 0
    4 Holy Water* <------------ Needed to clear rows because Sulpher!
    4 Sulpher*
    1 Sala Silver*
    1 Sala Gold* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 9 0 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    1 Gnome Silver*
    3 Glow Crystal*
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    1 Gnome Silver*
    3 Glow Crystal*
    1 Chaos Crystal*
    3 Sulpher*
    1 Gnome Gold* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 9 7 9 0
    4 Mercury*
    1 Sala Silver*
    1 Sala Gold* Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    0 0 0 0 9 3 9 0

    3 Glow Crystal
    2 Wisp Silver
    3 Glow Crystal Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 0 0 0 9 0 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Shade Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Shade Silver
    3 Glow Crystal Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 6 0 0 9 0 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Gnome Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Gnome Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    3 Sulpher
    1 Gnome Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 6 0 0 9 7 9 0
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Undine Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    3 Mercury
    1 Undine Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 6 0 0 9 7 9 7
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Dryad Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Dryad Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    3 Sulpher
    1 Dryad Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 6 7 0 9 7 9 7
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Aura Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    1 Aura Silver
    3 Glow Crystal
    1 Chaos Crystal
    3 Mercury
    1 Aura Gold Wisp Shad Drya Aura Sala Gnom Jinn Undi
    6 6 7 7 9 7 9 7
    58 Points
     
    ^ Top  
  24. PorkaMorkagender: ⚧ Arcane

    PorkaMorka
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Parrots:
    4,694
    The Mechwarrior/Mechcommander series, specifically whichever game it was that had dynamic salvage based on the parts of the enemy you destroyed and also permanently removed destroyed weapons from your inventory.

    Choices and Consequences!
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Marsalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Marsal
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Parrots:
    1,304
    [​IMG]
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)