Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Dominions 5 Announced

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Dayyālu, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    We're at it again. Early November. Some changes are baffling (REAL TIME BATTLES) but I've been at it for years, won't change now. Plus I dig some of the other changes.

    I fairly liked the Dom4 approach of changes, even if in the end it's the same game. We'll see in two months, I guess.
     
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  2. Galdredgender: ⚧ Generalist Patron

    Galdred
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    That sounds great, but I didn't even have time to properly play Dom 4 yet!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  3. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    Looks interesting, good changes but will probably need a lot of balancing.

    Bless rush will get a big nerf in favor of scale builds most likely but that really depends what blesses can be active without a pretender.

    Real time combat has little overall effect other than weakening the turn1 advantage and thats also a good thing.
     
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  4. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    Scale build already got a buff in the Dom3-Dom4 switch, but I'm happy because I always liked scale-heavy nations. The bless and banishment changes are also interesting, at last Priests will be something else bar weak-undead destroyers.



    I doubt it will have "little effect", as a ton of tricks will be negated (RoS\Earthquake spam, suiciding mages, suiciding mages for gem waste) and the buff cycles will become less certain. We could see a big buff of smaller Evo spells if their casting time is small, imagine what a Marignon mage phalanx could do if they can pump an insane amount of Pillars of Fire spam before the enemy can set up battlefield-wide counters. It's no longer a matter of turn order, it's a matter of casting time: I presume a battlefield-wide protection spell will require time and thus leaving a good piece of the army unprotected.

    This will also weaken Flyers, as they won't necessarily get the first strike in now. Can't wait to see it in action, though.
     
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  5. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    OK I take back my words, saw a guy post some bless effects - F now can get awe, D can now get fear. Seems like bless effects have become vastly more powerful.

    Still, it will be a timing issue and bless rush will be more all in.
     
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  6. thesheeepgender: ⚧ Arcane

    thesheeep
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    Very interesting. I will watch this one closely.
     
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  7. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    Here is F and D blesses. Fire shield, awe, explosion on death and fear, reforming flesh seem most interesting here.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is S and N. S seems massively buffed with ethereal on bless and very cheap magic weapons access, there is also penetration and 50% spell range and those are big too. N has recuperation and regeneration but also the always nice berserker.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  8. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    Some of the images don't work. Pliz fix.

    The bless list looks mightily interesting, a ton of viable options. And the combos look like a fascinating option. The long reign of N9E4 is at its end, at last.
     
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  9. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    The images are fine, I had some issues linking so the IMGs are remnants of my attempts. I will post more images once I get my hands on them.

    Looks like stuff like a rainbow with mage tailored bless could be strong.
     
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  10. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    Right, here is B blesses, very straightforward it seems. Blood bond shares damage between nearby sacreds and blood surge is a temporary bonus on enemy unit kill. How will blood bond work with massive damage spells like gifts from heaven? Only time will tell.

    [​IMG]

    Also EA Rus confirmed.
     
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  11. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    Ok here we have all blesses.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. I'm With Her Hobo Elfgender: ⚧ for prison Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    This came out of nowhere and it's pretty close to release as well. Wish they'd try to work on making the game more SP friendly, but Illwinter is probably not interested in even attempting that.
     
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  13. mondblutgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    mondblut
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    :bounce:
    Show Spoiler
    :negative: not a word about ai again. dear Illwinter, pls finally stop forcing us to play with the other meatbags.
     
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  14. Raghargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raghar
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    Wanna SP? Get a pirated version.

    This would be nice freeware game, when they wouldn't charge 30-50$ for it.
     
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  15. Grifgender: ⚧ Learned

    Grif
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    Oh man. I didn't realise they were already this close to releasing Dom5.
     
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  16. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    They merely can't. AI would collapse under the strain. CoE is as near as a SP-focused, lite Dominions we will get, and it's challenging not thanks to AI but thanks to roguelite elements and "crap to find and fight".

    More deserving of my money that 99.5% of "proper games". Not even talking about AAA games, if only indie devs had the focus of the Illwinter guys we would be golden. And we are better off than in the Dark Ages of Dom3. What was the platform they used them, it was like, hell

    It helps they don't give a shit about balance :lol::lol::lol:
     
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  17. thesheeepgender: ⚧ Arcane

    thesheeep
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    To me, the biggest issues are the UI, no usable SP and how insanely long turns can take in the later game. At least the realtime battles and better logging should help with the second one somewhat.
    The UI looks barely touched at all :negative:


    That's just wrong.
    All they would have to do is make some proper campaign AI that can be reasoned with. They don't even need to touch the spell, army composition, etc. AI. And some very simple diplomacy could very easily be done. After all, the AI already seems to be following some agenda - nothing prevents adding some diplomacy here.
    Of course they couldn't create an AI for a game like this that could keep up with a decent player, but I doubt anyone would expect that.
    But some basic alliance forming, maybe target setting, trading and non-aggression pacts would go a long way.
     
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  18. mondblutgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    mondblut
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    Yes, yes, yes. Nobody needs a fucking Deep Blue here, just something to entertain us while losing gracefully.

    Another pet peeve of mine is notekeeping. How hard could it be to implement counters for a player to set on the map with little tooltips saying "enchantment site here", "lizard shamans prov", etc?

    Cybersports jocks playing 15 province map duels get all the love :despair:
     
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  19. Dayyālugender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    I've never found the revised Dom4 UI particularly terrible. Wait, bar the "Wait" commands hidden as a key shortcut :lol::lol::lol:

    But I guess we'll get some incremental streamlining. With roadbuilding and a new focus on fortresses, they are needed.


    It's not wrong, per se. Dominions SP is already "go and fight everything because there is nothing else and the AI can't deal with the minutiae".

    Dominions AI is indeed very basic, and all it takes into considerations are troops numbers. Basic diplomacy could be done, but the meat of Dominions is the interaction between the strategic layer and the tactical layer, the "spell, army composition, etc. AI", that nowadays acts kinda randomly. Strategic AI is non-existent.

    Would some simple diplomacy helps SP larping? Probably. Still won't help the basic problems of Dominions SP AI, and I prefer CoE SP to Dom SP if I need to merely play against braindead AI. Less micro, more toys. It's just me though.

    Wait, you don't keep paper notes of all your games with specific data about provinces and poptypes? Are you insane?
     
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  20. Joined on the 4th of Julygender: ⚧ Magister

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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Joined on the 4th of Julygender: ⚧ Magister

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    Dominions would need a diplomacy system that doesn't mess with the turn sequence. So something like in Civilization or Master of Orion would not be viable.

    Something simple like Warlords 2's system where you set a "stance" per every faction whether you want peace or war with them. And unless both sides have peace-stance against each other, they're at war.
     
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  22. mondblutgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    mondblut
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    Paper notes are too 1986 for me :negative:
     
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  23. HeatEXTENDgender: ⚧ Learned

    HeatEXTEND
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    http://www.illwinter.com/dom5/index.html

    Long Live Illwinter :salute:
     
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  24. Malakalgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Malakal
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    More info:
    1. time stop spell is in!
    2. Earth blesses give temper flesh and recuperation effects.
    3. Wind walker is bonus map move, fateweaving is curse on attacker effect.
    4. Blood surge is 3 att 3 str 1 def 1 reinvig on kill for a short duration.
    5. It may be possible to dispel enemy blesses with banishments.
    6. 1 point in path is 1 bless point, some nations get a national bonus like MA Marignon getting 2F and Agartha getting 2E points as long as it has at least E4.
    7. Berserk is a base of 3.
    8. Stat blesses (attack/def etc) can be taken multiple times. They are around 2 stats each.
    9. New LA nation is Pelagia, it has heavy incest lore.
     
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  25. Make America Great Again Johannesgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Johannes
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    Interesting. Impossible to say yet what exactly will be the most broken or popular kinds of builds with the new system - but seems like there'll be a lot of room for different builds.

    Cautiously optimistic about RT combat, too. It's possible that it's implemented in a shitty way that dumbs the game down, but it's got a lot of potential as well. It will be very different that's for sure, in terms of what counters what in mage scripting, probably.
     
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