Game News Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter Campaign Begins + Hands-on Preview at RPGWatch

[Vault Dweller]

What's your definition of retard in this case? I suspect 90% of the people who want a new skyrim or whatnot leave that page the moment they see isometric, though i doubt many people would go and look for stuff like that on KS to begin with.

Anyway i personally think the video sells the game well because it focuses on presenting key features that are fun, new and innovative without sounding overly complicated - skillcheck in coop mode, using environment to your advantage in battle and showing that you can affect the environment to your liking, use-friendly editor. Key points of the game that look neat as fuck and attract anyone who'd look for interesting features in another RPG among the current incline of reborn behemoths and such. I really don't understand why you think the video itself is "bad selling"

Informing and selling are two different things. The pitch (video+the page) does a good job of informing people who already like the game or who want exactly what the game offers (the most narrow definition of the core audience), but doen't sell the idea to people slightly outside the core audience.

hiver:

No, I don't mean biotards. I mean people who backed WL2, PE, Torment 2, etc, i.e. people who frequently pledge for games on Kickstarter (i.e. familiar with the concept and don't need convincing) and like old school/turn-based/isometric games, i.e. the potential audience. 74,000 backed Project Eternity, 61,000 backed WL2, 57,000 backed Torment 2, so we can assume that the potential audience at the moment is 50-75,000 people.

I hoped that Torment 2 will hit 100,000 people, but I think they fucked up with their "Another [NAME] joins the team! The game gets better!" which is the dumbest fucking approach.

So, anyway, what Swen should have been thinking is "how do I get as many of these people interested in my game?" instead of simply talking about his game and showing things he liked. Yes, the game is almost finished, so he can't sell the dream, but the game IS almost finished, so people can buy it at 25 bucks (or whatever the cheapest deal is) risk-free. Surely the game is worth at least this much. Yet only 2,700 people showed interest so far.

 

[Haba]

What he could have sold was the dream of "a different game" that D:tOS could be.

Now many people will let their inherit laziness prevail and wait for the "Steam discount".

You need to have that sense of urgency to seal the deal.

 

[Western]

Vault Dweller Are you likely to Kickstart your next major project? Not the party based AOD spin off, but the sci-fi RPG.

It would be interesting because you do have a good head for marketing (was your previous job something to do with that?).

 

[hiver]

Vault Dweller

Out of those games only W2 was funded by people who like TB combat, specifically for that reason.

As for Torment... they left the umbrella as open as possible so all kinds of people got in.
Biotards and similar next gen crowd by the lot.

Still i dont think you can really say they fucked up the kickstarter. Its over 300% backed now, over 3,1 million.
What pisses me off is this very generic info we have. Its a personal issue of mine, of course. But ive gone through non existing communication on W2 forums, no updates, no new info and when its given its only as damage control move.
Instead - the boss talks to mass media. As he did now, again. And continues.

As for writer/designer gets added to the team - They never explained what a "writer" really means in game design.
Although i mentioned it on kickstarter and Kevin replied it might be a good idea to do so.

- Then again... well over 3,1 million. With paypal over 3.2 now. So it doesnt seem to hurt them much.
Although with better approach they could have made more, thats true. But it isnt like 3.5 to 4 will be bad.

Opposed to that i love the detailed info of Larian and not going down that route. If you think about it - they couldnt go for "selling a dream".
InXile is selling a very defined and well known cult game in new clothes. All they have to do is say "Torment!". They are not selling some obscure dream but a very specific wet dream.
And rumors about it have been spreading a long time before they started. It all snowballed.

Larian is selling something completely new.

 

[Jaesun]

In following the comments section, the video pitch is selling pretty well.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller Are you likely to Kickstart your next major project? Not the party based AOD spin off, but the sci-fi RPG.

No. If AoD sells, we'll have enough money to make more games. If it doesn't, why seek funding? It's very black-n-white.

It would be interesting because you do have a good head for marketing (was your previous job something to do with that?).

I was a VP of Sales & Marketing in an ad company.

 

[tuluse]

Vault Dweller Are you likely to Kickstart your next major project? Not the party based AOD spin off, but the sci-fi RPG.

No. If AoD sells, we'll have enough money to make more games. If it doesn't, why seek funding? It's very black-n-white.

You could have dedicated fans willing to pay large sums of money to get your next game made.

You could use additional money to expand the team to make a bigger game.

 

[uaciaut]

What's your definition of retard in this case? I suspect 90% of the people who want a new skyrim or whatnot leave that page the moment they see isometric, though i doubt many people would go and look for stuff like that on KS to begin with.

Anyway i personally think the video sells the game well because it focuses on presenting key features that are fun, new and innovative without sounding overly complicated - skillcheck in coop mode, using environment to your advantage in battle and showing that you can affect the environment to your liking, use-friendly editor. Key points of the game that look neat as fuck and attract anyone who'd look for interesting features in another RPG among the current incline of reborn behemoths and such. I really don't understand why you think the video itself is "bad selling"

Informing and selling are two different things. The pitch (video+the page) does a good job of informing people who already like the game or who want exactly what the game offers (the most narrow definition of the core audience), but doen't sell the idea to people slightly outside the core audience.

hiver:

No, I don't mean biotards. I mean people who backed WL2, PE, Torment 2, etc, i.e. people who frequently pledge for games on Kickstarter (i.e. familiar with the concept and don't need convincing) and like old school/turn-based/isometric games, i.e. the potential audience. 74,000 backed Project Eternity, 61,000 backed WL2, 57,000 backed Torment 2, so we can assume that the potential audience at the moment is 50-75,000 people.

I hoped that Torment 2 will hit 100,000 people, but I think they fucked up with their "Another [NAME] joins the team! The game gets better!" which is the dumbest fucking approach.

So, anyway, what Swen should have been thinking is "how do I get as many of these people interested in my game?" instead of simply talking about his game and showing things he liked. Yes, the game is almost finished, so he can't sell the dream, but the game IS almost finished, so people can buy it at 25 bucks (or whatever the cheapest deal is) risk-free. Surely the game is worth at least this much. Yet only 2,700 people showed interest so far.

Sven IS interesting in how many people he can bring to the game, that's why he's showing you a non-mmo co-op multiplayer mode that allows for skill checks and why he's showing you how combat mechanics work via environment changes. I'm not sure we're looking at the same video here because the pitch (in the video at least) is really well made by pointing out strengths of the game that are SPECIFIC to it and that work in interesting ways which is exactly what they should play upon given that they don't have names as massive as torment, mca, etc behind them. I really don't get why you think the video is bad as a pitch.
The rest of the KS is okay (page looks okay) but design of therewards kind of sucks given that this whole thing is support to pump more money into an already finished project to give additional content thus turning it into more of a "pre-order" thing.

I agree you with you on Torment's approach on "more writers" is pretty bad though, they figured the type of people who go for Torment and similar games are 100% for the names behind the titles and the writing/storytelling so they went full throtle with that and kind of ignored everything else entirely.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Still i dont think you can really say they fucked up the kickstarter. Its over 300% backed now, over 3,1 million.

X00% over is a meaningless number since companies never ask for what they are actually aiming at. I believe the potential of this KS was much higher than 3.5-4 mil. So, if they had a chance (hypothetically, of course) to hit 5-8 mil but got a lot less, they fucked it up.

PE's started half-baked, but Obsidian managed to recover and did better and better with each update. I was actually looking forward to them during the campaign. Torment 2 started strong but quickly ran out of steam and the updates and the goals are generic as fuck. Even the dungeon idea was executed better.

 

[The Great Deceiver]

I'm now completely broke...


But what if we're all under the influence of a mind-altering drug administered by the EA? What if the recent Incline is just an illusion?

This is Larry Probst from EA. The charges against you are severe... but they could be dismissed, if you take this "medicine". Who knows, there might even be a free popamole game in it for you...if you take it willingly.

...

CODEX : I re-examine my priorities, and draw new conclusions.

Larry Probst is deleting all files concerning these events.

 

[FeelTheRads]

If it doesn't, why seek funding? It's very black-n-white.

Why? If you fail to sell one game it doesn't mean you'll fail to sell another unless you make them identical?

 

[ForkTong]

So, anyway, what Swen should have been thinking is "how do I get as many of these people interested in my game?" instead of simply talking about his game and showing things he liked. Yes, the game is almost finished, so he can't sell the dream, but the game IS almost finished, so people can buy it at 25 bucks (or whatever the cheapest deal is) risk-free. Surely the game is worth at least this much. Yet only 2,700 people showed interest so far.

Hm. Okay. We approached the video as follows.
Audience = cRPG gamers.
Goal 1 = show what we have already
Goal 2 (requires Goal 2) = explain why we are on KS (try to explain "add density")

We indeed were not out to sell, because, in our noobie-Kickstarter-way, we thought KS was about funding, helping, pushing.

 

[tuluse]

Sven IS interesting in how many people he can bring to the game, that's why he's showing you a non-mmo co-op multiplayer mode that allows for skill checks and why he's showing you how combat mechanics work via environment changes. I'm not sure we're looking at the same video here because the pitch (in the video at least) is really well made by pointing out strengths of the game that are SPECIFIC to it and that work in interesting ways which is exactly what they should play upon given that they don't have names as massive as torment, mca, etc behind them. I really don't get why you think the video is bad as a pitch.
The rest of the KS is okay (page looks okay) but design of therewards kind of sucks given that this whole thing is support to pump more money into an already finished project to give additional content thus turning it into more of a "pre-order" thing.

I agree you with you on Torment's approach on "more writers" is pretty bad though, they figured the type of people who go for Torment and similar games are 100% for the names behind the titles and the writing/storytelling so they went full throtle with that and kind of ignored everything else entirely.

Most people aren't interested in mechanics, and really I'm not sure how much mechanic X has been implemented will tell you. It doesn't tell you if it's been consistently used, if the story or setting are interesting enough to care about the mechanic, etc.

VD complains about kickstarters "selling the dream" instead of a product, but really with a video game even if you have a product you're still selling the dream.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller Are you likely to Kickstart your next major project? Not the party based AOD spin off, but the sci-fi RPG.

No. If AoD sells, we'll have enough money to make more games. If it doesn't, why seek funding? It's very black-n-white.

You could have dedicated fans willing to pay large sums of money to get your next game made.

I don't think it's a good idea (or a sustainable business model). Either there is a small market for games we want to make or there isn't. AoD isn't an obscure game and the deal with the 3 portals should give us a fair chance. If it still fails, well...

You could use additional money to expand the team to make a bigger game.

Going nuts and hiring a bunch of people (who may or may not add any value) would be a mistake. We're already bloated by indie standards. So, again, if the game sells just enough to keep us in business, asking for money on KS to hire more people to make (somehow) a better game would be kinda silly. If the game sells well enough, I'm sure we'd be able to afford an extra developer, should the need arise.

 

[Western]

Vault Dweller Are you likely to Kickstart your next major project? Not the party based AOD spin off, but the sci-fi RPG.

No. If AoD sells, we'll have enough money to make more games. If it doesn't, why seek funding? It's very black-n-white.

It would be interesting because you do have a good head for marketing (was your previous job something to do with that?).

I was a VP of Sales & Marketing in an ad company.

I guess it depends if there's something you would like to do for the next game that you just don't have enough money for (depending on how successful AOD is) and you believe would make the game considerably better, like additional, artists or programmers as a hypothetical example.

Edit; Never mind you answered this above.

 

[tuluse]

Well, it's your company and life, and I don't want to tell you how to run either one. I think there are reasons you could do crowd funding, but obviously you find it distasteful.

 

[felipepepe]

Some awesome stuff at the KS comments:

Since combat & reputation are apart for both players, can one player start combat with the guards of a store, then the other player sneak in and steal everything while they are busy?
Also, what happens when one PC dies? Gameover?

@Felipe
If the second player gets too close to the combat they can get drawn in, but one character can cause a distraction while the other loots. If the characters split up the shopkeeper (or home owner) may only be able to see one at a time
As long as one party member remains the others can be resurrected.

Thanks for the answer.
One more thing, the video said one guy can be sent the jail while the other is unnafected. That menas that one player can play "hero" while the other slaughters the entire city? (I am assumiong that I will be able to slaughter the entire city )

@ Felipe: yes, you can totally do that.

(co-op brofist)

 

[Smejki]

Swen, back in the ol' days people were used to panic with some

 

[hiver]

Still i dont think you can really say they fucked up the kickstarter. Its over 300% backed now, over 3,1 million.

X00% over is a meaningless number since companies never ask for what they are actually aiming at.

I dont think they were so dastardly. Not really. I think they actually asked for what they could achieve and then hoped for more, probably in range of 1.5 to 2 (counting on W2 success but trying to remain realistic) - which is why Kevin worked on modular design goals.
Fargo is too good of a business man to gamble like you suggest might have been the case.

And they had some hurdles to cross, such as starting another kickstarter before anyone saw W2 - which was the reason we got the gameplay demo video at all, btw.

I believe the potential of this KS was much higher than 3.5-4 mil. So, if they had a chance (hypothetically, of course) to hit 5-8 mil but got a lot less, they fucked it up.

I was thinking 5 could be reachable but, thats out of the question now. Not much else to say about this part since its all wild speculation.

PE's started half-baked, but Obsidian managed to recover and did better and better with each update. I was actually looking forward to them during the campaign. Torment 2 started strong but quickly ran out of steam and the updates and the goals are generic as fuck. Even the dungeon idea was executed better.

hey, you can vote on IGN or buy some merchandise.

Cant have info... might scare off biotards who are still hoping for streamlined mechanics and "romances" and lgbt presentation and whatever the fuck else.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hm. Okay. We approached the video as follows.
Audience = cRPG gamers.
Goal 1 = show what we have already
Goal 2 (requires Goal 2) = explain why we are on KS (try to explain "add density")

We indeed were not out to sell, because, in our noobie-Kickstarter-way, we thought KS was about funding, helping, pushing.

Sadly, it's not the case and KS is about selling and enticing people with loot bags. As for your goals - you don't show what you have, you sell what you have. Informing vs selling is a typical noob mistake. Sell excitement, make them want it.

As for why you're on KS, it fell completely off the mark.

Well, I pledged and I'm very much looking forward to your game. Good luck and thank you.

 

[hiver]

Thats just one guys opinion.

As i said few posts back - inXile could sell excitement about a dream because of what they were selling.

Larian cannot.
You cannot sell new IPs like inXile sells old ones coming back.

 

[BigWeather]

It would be epic if everyone who donated to Garriott's piece of shit would cancel their pledges and donate to this instead. This is the real Ultima successor, not that free2suck crap.

Hopefully I'm one of many: Ultima -= 25; Divinity += 95;

 

[OracleX]

have to wait for a Paypal option. All the interesting RPG's lately are robbing me from my money!

 

[BigWeather]

Will it have night / day / weather / NPC schedules? I know, I know, there are more important things, but I like 'em.

 

[evdk]

It would be epic if everyone who donated to Garriott's piece of shit would cancel their pledges and donate to this instead. This is the real Ultima successor, not that free2suck crap.

Hopefully I'm one of many: Ultima -= 25; Divinity += 95;

Just FYI: I've brofisted you for shifting funds to a more deserving campaign but unbrofisted for pledging to LB's pet raising simulator in the first place