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Dawn of War: Single Player demo out now

Whipporowill

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May 18, 2003
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Just tried the tutorial and I have to say it captures the spirit of the boardgame - not that I have played it that much, but still. Game looks pretty interesting and hectic - as war should be.

Available everywhere, so I won't bother to post links. 3dgamers, gamershell et c.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
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5,752
Location
Monkey Island
I like the unit responses--very dramatic. I like it overall, but I think the interface could stand to be a bit smaller. What's up with that? I always liked how the Homeworlds had very discreet interfaces.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
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Well they had to hold something back to give the demo some original content and a fresh feel. From the sound of things, it worked. I'll probably download this too then.
 

Sol Invictus

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Very cool. I've been in the beta for quite some time and the demo's definitely fresh. For instance, most of the icons are redone with beautiful art (especially the upgrades) and all of them are color coded for easy reference.

On top of that they seem to have added a functional Overwatch feature for queuing automatic reinforcement of squads, upgrades and so forth. It definitely eliminates the horribly tedious micromanagement of Starcraft and Warcraft 3 and it's precisely one of those aspects of Dawn of War which solidifies its claim to reinvent real time strategy games. I definitely agree. Without the needless micromanagement I can simply plan my assaults with proper tactics without having to worry about selecting each of my groups to reinforce them or upgrade them.

Good stuff. I'm definitely looking forward to the game.

The graphics aren't worse from the beta, by the way. I'd say that they've definitely improved in terms of color and skin detail. Have you seen the Inquisitor's Iron Cross?
 

DamnElfGirl

Liturgist
Joined
May 31, 2004
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313
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Canuckskiville
Just played the demo, and it's quite fun. I love the camera. Why can't all games have a camera like that? I can't wait to be able to play Orks. Orks roolz all!
 

FrankHorrigan

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Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Messages
132
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Ireland
Nothing particularly new here, graphics are pretty weak, gameplay is your standard rts affair. However the setting is great, story seems interesting and has that relic "polish". I will pick it up.
 

Whipporowill

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Although I found that actually upgrading your squads - the sp mission was too hectic to really see what kind of effect having a plasma gun instead of a rocket launcher had. Anyhow - fun game, looks great and killer setting.
 

Sol Invictus

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FrankHorrigan said:
Nothing particularly new here, graphics are pretty weak, gameplay is your standard rts affair. However the setting is great, story seems interesting and has that relic "polish". I will pick it up.

Huh?

The graphics look pretty good from where I'm sitting. Didn't you see the death animations at all? As for the gameplay, the Overwatch mode snazzes it up. You don't have to spend all your time upgrading things or watching their health because not only can you queue upgrades manually, you can also set them to upgrade and reinforce automatically by right clicking the icons without your intervention so you can go into combat, lose a few units and they'll be upgrading while you're fighting.
 

FrankHorrigan

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The animations are pretty good but the textures are weak, it could easly be a warcraft 3 TC. Ground control 2 looks alot better. The overwatch mode is hardly revolutionary, the RTS genre(Total War aside) is a pretty stale genre, so its not like im singling Dawn of War out for being generic.
 

Sol Invictus

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GC2's terrain does look a lot better due to the reflections and foliage but the animation in Dawn of War wins, hands down. Ever seen an Avatar skewer an Ork? Besides, GC2 is a horrible game.

As for Overwatch, name another game which had that feature. Most RTS's consist of micromanaging your soldiers' health bars and upgrades and nothing more. It gets quite tedious and horrible when your soldiers die in no more than a few hits because you couldn't heal them fast enough with your Cleric or what have you. That's usually the case in Warcraft 3 and the Armies of Exigo demo.

The ability to combine support units (like Medics, Commanders and so forth) with battle units (e.g. a group of Space Marines) certainly minimizes the micromanagement and allows you to build effective groups.

Dawn of War is probably the first RTS of its kind to eliminate the old Rock-Paper-Scissors style of playing through the implementation of Upgrades and Support Units. Having a group of Space Marines equipped with Rocket Launchers makes them an effective counter against vehicles and infantry, while equipping them with Heavy Bolters allows them to effectively counter heavy infantry. Compound this with the fact that you can have up to 4 heavy weapons per squad allows you to diversify your assault force. Having a Medic around will offer the benefit of increased health and endurance whereas having a Commander around will boost morale and attack ability.

In case you were wondering, morale does in fact play an important role in Dawn of War. If your units find themselves flanked, and have not an effective leader to boost their spirits, they'll likely disperse, and lose tactical coherence.

Speaking of RTS's, there's a new one called Armies of Exigo which I mentioned before. It suffers from the problem of having too much micromanagement, a lack of squads (only the ctrl-number select) and the fact that your units die way too fast. It's hectic and Warcraft 3 purists will probably love it, but I certainly don't. It has superior graphics to Dawn of War (and possibly the best graphics I've seen in an RTS to date, barring Earth 2160, which isn't out yet) but beyond that, it's terrible.

Dawn of War is easily the best RTS this year, Rome Total War excepted (since it's a different kind of game).
 

Astromarine

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Joined
Jan 21, 2003
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Switzerland
Ex, that right-click on upgrades was in the beta as well. Or did I misunderstand what you said?

Whip, Plasma cannons are nice against armored infantry and light vehicles. Terminators, normal space marines and Chaos marines, ork big meks, trukks, etc. Missile Launchers work against the heavy stuff, up to and including Land Raiders.
 

Sol Invictus

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Yeah it was in the beta, but you couldn't select to pause them, I think. It didn't work when I tried. I suppose it was buggy back then.
 

FrankHorrigan

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Granted their are some minor nuance's in the game, but nothing revolutionary, Overwatch is just a different spin on an old idea. Their is also zero strategy involved in player VS AI in the demo, as a test i built 8 dreadnaughts and was able to complete the enitre map with just those 8 units. Their is no elimination of the "rock,paper, scissors" system... by your own explanation its just replacing more unique units with customized simular units. Its not a bad game and i will be picking it up for lack of better things to play, but its nothing fantastic, new polish for old boots.
 

Sol Invictus

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Call it what you may but it's definitely a step in the right direction. With games being more and more simplified these days, usually for the worse, it's nice to see that some 'simplifications' (or more accurately streamlining) remove a lot of the hectic crap you have to deal with in Gosu-style games like Generals and War3 and put the focus on actual tactics instead of build queues. The automated resource gathering and the unit squads are really nice features.
 

Snuffles

Novice
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
87
I hadn't noticed the overwatch system, tutorial never tells you, that will definately improve things, but it isn't as good as total annihilation, the best RTS i've seen for eliminating micromangement.

Can you overwatch stuff like Frag Grenades and Melta Bombs so the squads use them the first chance they get?
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Another good thing about the demo is the intro, which if you like FMV, it will be heaven. The point at which the sergeant cries out for the first time was excellent. It is at least as good as the Warcraft 3 FMV (regardless of what you think of the game itself).

The unit painting looks like a nice distraction, though I doubt I'll be able to come up with anything decent looking, especially with the limited tools there. Could be fun though.

The graphics by default have a high level of mip-mapping, if you look at the readme you can see the command to turn this off, so you get an improvement on the visuals, but at a high cost.

The single campaign map seemed fun, if quirky. The scripting and triggers could often cause problems or make it far to easy, and with no apparent difficulty levels for the campaign to make up for the mediocre AI then it may turn out to be rather unsatisfying.

The animation is fantastic, as is the ability to zoom in and view the combat, which will take a long time before it wears thin I am sure.

The unit customisation is a good idea, but it could do with better explanation as to what each item does, it is often left for you to guess things. This will hopefully be overcome by introducing them through the single player campaign in the usual tech ladder scaling that RTSs almost always have.

The sounds are great in the game, though I'd like a little more noise from the units, perhaps yell and screams during the melee, more akin to the intro they included would be fabulous. Still good without it though.

The population cap seemed generous enough for the maps - all too often I find myself annoyed at seeming a half dozen soldiers representing an "army" on a huge empty map.

The skirmish AI seems to have problems. In one game I saw the AI never go for the main capture point on the 4 way map. In another on a four way free for all I noticed that the enemy has a tendency to all gang up on one victim, meaning that you will either be left alone for an absurd amount of time and be able to build up your forces and base as a result, or you will be raped hard, early and often by all the others. This got so bad in one early game that I ventured out to see where they had all gone and found that two of the teams were gone and the final one had a half ruined base and no units.

Well worth downloading if you like RTS games, and the full game should be great, especially if it allows modding.
 

Ibbz

Augur
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
499
The skirmish AI seems to have problems. In one game I saw the AI never go for the main capture point on the 4 way map. In another on a four way free for all I noticed that the enemy has a tendency to all gang up on one victim, meaning that you will either be left alone for an absurd amount of time and be able to build up your forces and base as a result, or you will be raped hard, early and often by all the others. This got so bad in one early game that I ventured out to see where they had all gone and found that two of the teams were gone and the final one had a half ruined base and no units.
The AI seems to work OK in teams on hard. The enemy team pretty much worked in tandem to wipe out my AI teammate, despite my best efforts to keep him in the game. They showed a surprising amount of cooperation - In the end one of the enemy AI was holding me off from reinforcing my AI team mate while the other finished wiping out his base, unlike the early part of game, where both of the enemy AI's had pretty much just focused on my team mate. They also capture the control point(or whatever its called) on hard and above, anything below that, however, they ignore it. They also love their force commanders.

Granted their are some minor nuance's in the game, but nothing revolutionary, Overwatch is just a different spin on an old idea. Their is also zero strategy involved in player VS AI in the demo, as a test i built 8 dreadnaughts and was able to complete the enitre map with just those 8 units. Their is no elimination of the "rock,paper, scissors" system... by your own explanation its just replacing more unique units with customized simular units. Its not a bad game and i will be picking it up for lack of better things to play, but its nothing fantastic, new polish for old boots.

The campaign mission is easy - Try skirmish on hard and above if you want a challenge.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Messages
1
Location
Manila, The Philippines
AI isn't bad

I've played around with the Beta and the Demo of DoW. For anything less than hard, the AI is pretty passive. I was playing 1 vs 3 AI players last night on normal and it was OK. It wasn't as hard as the first time I played 1 vs 3 when I was already having a hard time defending against scouts.

Put it on hard and you'll probably be defending yourself from incursions most of the time. The Insane level is just that. I played a 3 human players vs. 3 AI players and they whipped us within 10 minutes. I didn't even get to tech up to anything but the ordinary SMs. The computer players harass you with their light units and when their heavier infantry units arrive, it was the beginning of the end for me. The Relic boards do say that the Eldar are quite good at rushes in the first stage and that was exactly what we got from the AI. I managed to beat off some of the attacks from the Eldar but then another AI player comes it with heavy marines and that was it for me.

The computer AI took out 2 human players in a span of 10 minutes in the beta. The AI tends to play agressively and it makes you play against time just to survive the first assault from their light units.

PC Zone magazine did complain about the "easy" AI but they reviewed it at the normal level (IMO mags should play through two difficulty levels to rate a game) . Jay Wilson, the lead designer, did say in the Relic boards that the normal level was on the easy side. He also said that Relic was faulted with having too hard AI on their earlier games. Anyway, out of the 5 difficulty levels the normal level is the second to the easiest.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
The hard level AI seems to rely on rushes a bit much, and rarely techs as much as the standard AI. Damn agressive though, it hits you often again and again and is fun if you can keep the balance and hold them off. The SM seems to be the weakest side, and after a look around the boards a lot of people seem to agree, the most important unit for the SM, the dreadnaught, is too hard to get and too expensive for what you get, I find that the Orcs beat them most of the time, be it AI or human players. I don't like the reliance on build orders and the way that you may as well quit as soon as you make a mistake in some games.
 

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