Development Info David Gaider on settings culture & history

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, you're both behaving like assholes, and you know it too.

No, I don't. The way I see it, I made a news post and hoped that people would join a dialogue-related discussion. Exitium started flaming away. I replied. The end.

Are you referring to only this thread, or to the thing that's been going on for a while now, and which will probably keep going on for as long as you both enjoy antagonistic debate so much?

I'm referring to every flame war I've had with Exitium. The pattern is "he starts, I reply", and then it's a "cycle of verbal violence" lol. I rarely start anything, but I'm a good sport and can play these games too. Btw, we've had several disagreements, have I ever insulted you just because your opinion is different? Just curious.

I agree that it seems just like you said, that dialogue options aren't there to be choices, but unless you can read his mind or have a confession, all you have is an educated guess. His reply in this thread was vague, but seemed to disagree with you.

He can disagree all he wants, that's what people usually do around here, but his games speak for themselves. Anyway, if you paid attention, I didn't say "look at teh fool, he doesn't know how to use dialogues". I simply stated that that's where we disagree with him. Is that offensive? Are we supposed to agree with anything and just nod and applaud? It was supposed to be a discussion, and David dropped by and stated his position, disagreeing with me. So what? I really, *really* don't see a problem here.

In my mind there's a difference between what you and I may believe to be true, and what is actually true, because we could still be wrong.

Of course, but, imo, the Codex is mostly a discussion site. The news people can get at many places, the discussions are only here. I stated something that I believe to be true. Somebody else, even if it's Gaider himself disagreed. Once again, so what? In cases like that, there is no truth, only opinions.

Imo, Exitium did much more damage to the site and to this discussion by starting the flame war, then I did when I disagreed with David Gaider.

But there are multiple solutions there, so your attempts to polarize things come off as you being less than accurate.

And I explained my position on that. We judge games overall. Many people think that Lionheart sucked terribly. I even wrote a review stating that. Yet, Barcelona was a decent town, much better then Hommlet for example, yet overall, despite that the game sucked, and the fact that there were a few good places doesn't change that. Same with Bio games. Of course, there are multiple solutions quests, of course, there are some non-linear areas, but *overall* Bio games are linear games featuring one-solution quests. You disagree? Fine. Let's talk about it, because what I said is not an absolute truth but an opinion to be discussed. If you do want to talk about it though, do me a favour and start a new thread in the General RPG section.

Which is probably not a concern for you, because you like the heat.

I don't care. What I like the most are discussions.

Well, I prefer a discussion, and without the antagonism.

Webster sez that antagonism is "actively expressed opposition". Is there anything wrong with that?

He boggled my mind when he never explained why he thought that real time combat requires a high number of enemies.

My apologies then. There were many discussions I was involved in at that moment, and I didn't have time to reply to your post and then forgot. Thanks for reminding then, I will reply later on today.

 

[Volourn]

'I stated something that I believe to be true."

The problem here is that you based your opinion by taking what Dave said in the first place completely out of context. And, yes, I'm gonna repeat that until you understand that simple fact which I'll be repeating it until the end of this thread. LOL


" but *overall* Bio games are linear games featuring one-solution quests."

No. Youa re the wrong. BIO's quests have multiple solutions most of the time. The lienarty of BIO games (at least before KOTOR and HOTU0 is the linearity of the main story/quest.

Next.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Meh...there's one thing that's not really being pointed out here. Vaultdweller seems to be constantly insulting various developers on the front page. This is just bad form for a site ...

Hmm, it looks like people are going crazy with that latest "post anything, no need to back it up" trend. Can we have some facts here? Other then the infamous "Pete Full of Shit Hines" case, which hardly qualifies for the "constantly" definition. I'll even do you a favour, here is a link to the news archive http://www.rpgcodex.com/newsarchive.php

If you believe that I did something wrong, unacceptable, and totally uncalled for, don't tell me, show me.

but I'm sure y'all find it nice when you get original content, as opposed to ripping news from other sites.

Original content - don't give a fuck. "Ripping" news - disagree. I see the Codex as a discussion site, not as a the most up-to-date and exclusive News site, but that's just my opinion. To be honest, I've never asked Saint what the Codex is all about.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Oh,s top with the Doomsday Device

Is that the bomb that just goes "DOOOOOM" when you flick the switch?

 

[Vault Dweller]

... if the anomisity is for real it's not healthy for the future of this site. In the end it won't matter who's right and who's wrong.

It's for real, and yeah, I agree with you, it's not good for the site. Frankly, I'm considering stepping down at the moment. No matter how one looks at it, my position is seemed by many as overly negative, negative without a reason. It seems to me that many people dislike and misunderstand my bluntness in the front page posts. So, perhaps, it's time to do something about it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

'I stated something that I believe to be true."

The problem here is that you based your opinion by taking what Dave said in the first place completely out of context. And, yes, I'm gonna repeat that until you understand that simple fact which I'll be repeating it until the end of this thread. LOL

Be my guest, Volourn. I based my opinion on Bio games. What David said was merely an explanation of the "phenomenon" lol

" but *overall* Bio games are linear games featuring one-solution quests."

No. Youa re the wrong. BIO's quests have multiple solutions most of the time. The lienarty of BIO games (at least before KOTOR and HOTU0 is the linearity of the main story/quest. "

Well, perhaps I should give BG2 or KOTOR another try, and record my quest-related observations. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Volourn]

"I based my opinion on Bio games. What David said was merely an explanation of the "phenomenon" lol"

Of course, Gaider wasn't asked about why BIO did the other games as they did. he was asked specifically how he would impart character knowledge of the DA world to the player without making the character look retarded.That was it. He wans't asked about how dialogue would effect the game. Like I said, out of context which makes it lame to twist it to suit your silly needs in an attempt to bash BIO again for a nonsensical reason.

Why don't you go post on the BIo boards and ask specifically how BIo will use dialogue to effect the game plot/quests in NDA instead of ballyhooing about skewered stuff out of context. And, don' deny going there. I wouldn't even be surprised there if you post there.


"Well, perhaps I should give BG2 or KOTOR another try, and record my quest-related observations. I'll keep you posted."


You do that.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Imo, Exitium did much more damage to the site and to this discussion by starting the flame war, then I did when I disagreed with David Gaider.

DRAMA!. When will it end, Vault Dweller? When you call for my resignation because of the 'damage' I'm 'doing to the site' for disagreeing with you?

It's for real, and yeah, I agree with you, it's not good for the site. Frankly, I'm considering stepping down at the moment. No matter how one looks at it, my position is seemed by many as overly negative, negative without a reason. It seems to me that many people dislike and misunderstand my bluntness in the front page posts. So, perhaps, it's time to do something about it.

If you feel that the constant antagonism you unleash upon the message boards and the news page is unhealthy for the site then perhaps you should consider toning it down a little, by for instance, not calling developers "Full of Shit" on the front page. While I have no desire to see you step down from your position, as you do bring some personality to the table, you're very free to back your words up with actions. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have presented reasons for my negativity towards you. Whether you chose to ignore them completely, I care not. Though, if I were you, I would do something about the Martyr Complex. If you step down, it will be your decision - it won't be because I or anybody else forced you to.

Before I forget, I should say that bashing Bioware is getting really fucking old. It was old a year ago when Spazmo said, "Bashing Bioware in every thread is getting really old" and it's even older now. Back then, NWN was fresh in our minds, and a lot of us thought poorly of it. KOTOR's been out since then, and a lot of us have warmed somewhat to Bioware, and Dragon Age's complete lack of a wordcount is a definite step in the right direction. While it must be stimulating for some people to keep bashing Bioware for issues we've already covered many, many times before - I am sick of it, as I'm sure a lot of others here are, too. It's old, and it's done. Can't you move on? If you want to keep taking David Gaider out of context to support your own stupid agenda to keep bashing Bioware, just keep it in your diary or something.

 

[Mendoza]

... if the anomisity is for real it's not healthy for the future of this site. In the end it won't matter who's right and who's wrong.

It's for real, and yeah, I agree with you, it's not good for the site. Frankly, I'm considering stepping down at the moment. No matter how one looks at it, my position is seemed by many as overly negative, negative without a reason. It seems to me that many people dislike and misunderstand my bluntness in the front page posts. So, perhaps, it's time to do something about it.

Would it not be possible to use the front page to post factual news, and then use the thread to voice your opinions?

 

[Vault Dweller]

When will it end, Vault Dweller? When you call for my resignation because of the 'damage' I'm 'doing to the site' for disagreeing with you?

I don't call for your resignation, if anything I call for you to stop being an ass.

If you feel that the constant antagonism you unleash upon the message boards and the news page is unhealthy for the site then perhaps you should consider toning it down a little, by for instance, not calling developers "Full of Shit" on the front page.

I wouldn't be interested in that, but I appreciate your suggestion.

While I have no desire to see you step down from your position, as you do bring some personality to the table, you're very free to back your words up with actions.

I've already emailed Saint and asked for his opinion on the situation, listing stepping down as an option. If he agrees with that, then so be it.

Though, if I were you, I would do something about the Martyr Complex.

It's not a Martyr Complex, it's a logical solution to a problem. It has nothing to do with you, btw, but our fights have generated a certain reaction where many people have resented my news posts. If that's how people feel, it would be stupid to disregard that reaction, would it not?

If you step down, it will be your decision - it won't be because I or anybody else forced you to.

No, nobody's forcing me to, and I wouldn't blame anybody for that. It's only a question of whether or not I and my opinions fit the site.

 

[Jora]

I don't see anything wrong with Vault Dweller's posts. It's as he said: he posted an opinion that was intended to start a discussion and was even nice to Dave Gaider (as he has always been), and Exitium posts paranoidic flames accusing VD of things he didn't do.

 

[Volourn]

"I don't see anything wrong with Vault Dweller's posts."

Huh? Posts are automatically wrong when they take things out of context as he did in regards to the acual subject of Dave Gaider's post that started this fun mess.


"even nice to Dave Gaider"

Being nice is irrelevant. And, besides, I don't consider taking what someone posts out of context is being nice to being nice espicially since he took the time to insult Dave's work with bullshit like "there is no multiple solutions to BIO quests". That's a load of crap and full of lies so not nice.

Of course, as everyone on else on the 'Codex he has the right to post it and embarass himself.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Would it not be possible to use the front page to post factual news, and then use the thread to voice your opinions?

What's factual news? The only actual facts in this industry are when a game goes gold. The rest are merely developers opinions on things that could be discussed, disagreed with, mocked, and even flamed in some cases.

 

[Jora]

His opinion may have been wrong but that's no reason to do what Exitium did. Taking quotes out of context != insulting Dave G.

 

[Sheriff05]

... if the anomisity is for real it's not healthy for the future of this site. In the end it won't matter who's right and who's wrong.

Totally disagree, again I maintain this is supposed to an open, uncensored critical forum
not a god damn massage parlor for developers.

Why the hell do you think many of developers that get called out at RPG Codex make appearances here or are at least lurking. Because they know they won't get the same type of feedback they get on their own boards..

It's for real, and yeah, I agree with you, it's not good for the site. Frankly, I'm considering stepping down at the moment. No matter how one looks at it, my position is seemed by many as overly negative, negative without a reason. It seems to me that many people dislike and misunderstand my bluntness in the front page posts. So, perhaps, it's time to do something about it.

Bullshit VD, do not cave into this facious "feel-good optimism" these people are pumping.
I am not saying be a total full blow asshole when posting news, but your healthly cynicism is what makes this site cool.

Taking this thread as case in point, your initial news post was hardly inflamatory,
until Exitium cranked it up about 10 notches.
Exitiums own news posts are blantantly self promoting of his own agendas
and are really not within the context of what I've seen as Codex News since I joined up here over a year ago.

And Exitium, I don't think you need to "go' either
but don't act like all you did was Disagree
with VD because that's bullshit, Your posts of late all center around
"Your new personal mission" and this fight you picked with VD was just another excuse to say the same things you have been saying
in countless other recent threads.

 

[Mendoza]

Would it not be possible to use the front page to post factual news, and then use the thread to voice your opinions?

What's factual news? The only actual facts in this industry are when a game goes gold. The rest are merely developers opinions on things that could be discussed, disagreed with, mocked, and even flamed in some cases.

Fair enough. What I was trying to suggest was that staff opinions be kept off of news posts. Although it's hardly like you're the only person who's 'guilty' of this.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, Sheriff, perhaps things have changed. Many people who supported the "hardline" are gone now. Those who've replaced them are taking more moderate positions. I joined the site, and joined the staff, when nothing was held back. That's what attracted me. If that's changed, then maybe somebody else would fit in better. It's as simple as that. I'm waiting for Saint to state his position. If the site is still hardcore, then fuck all those who think we should be politically correct and suck some dicks for some exclusives. If the site is now more ...I dunno..."nice", then I'd rather be a regular member.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fair enough. What I was trying to suggest was that staff opinions be kept off of news posts.

May I recommend this fine site then? No opinions whatsoever. Sorry, Dhruin, you know what I mean.

 

[Volourn]

"His opinion may have been wrong but that's no reason to do what Exitium did."

I'm not defending Ex's lunacy; just attacking VD's.


"Well, Sheriff, perhaps things have changed. Many people who supported the "hardline" are gone now. Those who've replaced them are taking more moderate positions. I joined the site, and joined the staff, when nothing was held back. That's what attracted me. If that's changed, then maybe somebody else would fit in better. It's as simple as that. I'm waiting for Saint to state his position. If the site is still hardcore, then fuck all those who think we should be politically correct and suck some dicks for some exclusives. If the site is now more ...I dunno..."nice", then I'd rather be a regular member."

Meh. I like the news posts. they tend to give me a reason to rant about them hence why long threads like these exist and despite Ex's and Sherriff's retardedness are still interesting threads even if you do take things out of context.

P.S. I did warn you. :evil: :wink:

 

[Mendoza]

Fair enough. What I was trying to suggest was that staff opinions be kept off of news posts.

May I recommend this fine site then? No opinions whatsoever. Sorry, Dhruin, you know what I mean.

Hey, I like the opinions (it's the main reason I lurk here), I was just suggesting it as a compromise to keep you and Ex happy. I mean, the news itself should be good enough to start off a discussion without any commentary on the front page.

 

[Sheriff05]

I'm waiting for Saint to state his position.

That be nice as he's the boss.

If the site is still hardcore, then fuck all those who think we should be politically correct and suck some dicks for some exclusives. If the site is now more ...I dunno..."nice", then I'd rather be a regular member.

Hell, I'd rather see it shut down, as it would just be wasting bandwidth.

 

[Whipporowill]

While I find VD to be somewhat over the top at times - such as the "Hines incident", which made me wince a little - I sort of agreed with the point he made. Also, it's not as Bio-bashing is as common these days, really? Calling people names in news posts might be something to not consider doing again though...

Rex on the other hand has lately been sort of a "changed man" to his previous self. I can't really get my head around his new positions - which sort of seems to be that of a negative of his old ones. And at many times he shows an opinion which isn't really mirrored by the site he's supposed to represent, but makes it sound as he does. While this doesn't matter all that much since the staff are a bunch of really diverse characters (no kidding?!) and opinons - it can certainly be annoying at times. Such as the anti-Troika crusade he began for some unknown reason.

And we've always posted our takes, suggestions and flames as part of our news posts. It's sort of the RPG Codex schtick. Don't like it? Then, I'd also recommend RPG Dot, which is a very good site, but a very different one at that.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I don't see anything wrong with Vault Dweller's posts. It's as he said: he posted an opinion that was intended to start a discussion and was even nice to Dave Gaider (as he has always been), and Exitium posts paranoidic flames accusing VD of things he didn't do.

Calling Pete Hines "full of shit" on the main page (which I personally removed)isn't a good way to start a reasonable discussion. If he wants to state his opinion he can do so by posting on the forums without posting his opinions on the main page as the 'general consensus' of the Codex. I don't care if you or anyone else agrees with his opinions: it is not a consensus. If it seems like my posts are 'paranoidic' (SIC) it's only because I'm referring to the Pete "Full of Shit" Hines incident which you may not have read before it was edited.

It doesn't matter if VD is 'nice' to David Gaider. That is completely irrelevent. What's not nice is how he takes words out of context and tries to fit them into his own agenda against Bioware, a crusade that's kicking a herd of dead horses right now.

His opinion may have been wrong but that's no reason to do what Exitium did. Taking quotes out of context != insulting Dave G.

You are presenting a straw man argument. This entire issue was never about whether VD failed to be 'nice' to David Gaider though it's an arguable issue as to whether taking someone's words out of context for the purpose besmirching him can be construed as an insult. You don't have to call someone an 'idiot' to insult him. You can insult someone by second guessing their decisions, criticizing them unfairly (which is what VD did) or slandering them (which is what VD also did).

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

If the site is now more ...I dunno..."nice", then I'd rather be a regular member.

And lose the opportunity of being a spokesperson of a site sponsored by Teletubbies?

As I've said before to DarkUnderlord (or the former online entity known as him, as he seemed to be off his rocker the last time I talked to him), the site can keep on being an underground, hardline, uncompromising CRPG news site tempered with the ocasional mud slinging fest or name calling without needing to cause incidents like the one already brought up. I'd be pretty disappointed if Vault Dweller's healthy cinism was gone from the site, just as I'd be disappointed if any other staff member left because of similar reasons... but I'd also be disappointed if these kinds of situations also kept happening more often because they'd be deemed acceptable. I'm not a part of the staff, but you don't need to be one to note how Exitium, Saint, and Whipporowill showed varying degrees of discomfort with that particular situation, or at the very least, suggested it could've been less problematic.

Less board drama, more bitching.

 

[Whipporowill]

Calling Pete Hines "full of shit" on the main page (which I personally removed)isn't a good way to start a reasonable discussion.

While I agree that namecalling (of that degree) hasn't got a place in newspost, neither do I agree with your decision on editing VD's newspost. Neither should I edit on of your newspost if I disagree with it - that's Saint's job as the Prime Commander and Editor. He's the one that calls the shots here, responsible for scolding any possible "guilty party" and decides who's on the team. Not you, not me - not anyone else.