Monty
Arcane
3
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Choose your path to greatness, obscurity or death. A multiple choice LP
- Thread starter Vernydar
- Start date
Stygian Lurker
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 577
3
Zwist
Learned
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 236
I am not an expert in tradesmen, but where do you usually order a door and a lock? Carpenters? How complicated are the locks?
And why did the secretary not flee if he murdered the guildmaster? Hide the body? He certainly had more than enough time.
Also: THE DESK IS EMPTY???!!
That means that either the guild master did not get to work on the documents he wanted to work on(if that was what he wanted), or someone removed them....
Would the guildmaster not be puzzled if his secretary suddenly opens the door to his study, even if he wanted to be left undisturbed?
Now, is there something in the room where a grown man could hide? Lets check those places before doing anything further.
4. Tell the advisor that the secretary is the prime suspect, but that you want to search the room and keep him near for questioning nonetheless. The murder of an important member of society warrants the extra time spent in order to be sure that things are as obvious as they look. Even if they look very obvious.
And why did the secretary not flee if he murdered the guildmaster? Hide the body? He certainly had more than enough time.
Also: THE DESK IS EMPTY???!!
That means that either the guild master did not get to work on the documents he wanted to work on(if that was what he wanted), or someone removed them....
Would the guildmaster not be puzzled if his secretary suddenly opens the door to his study, even if he wanted to be left undisturbed?
Now, is there something in the room where a grown man could hide? Lets check those places before doing anything further.
4. Tell the advisor that the secretary is the prime suspect, but that you want to search the room and keep him near for questioning nonetheless. The murder of an important member of society warrants the extra time spent in order to be sure that things are as obvious as they look. Even if they look very obvious.
2
Overwhelming victory for option 3. Poor secretary... I will keep in mind Zwist's suggestion to look for places where a man could hide. I always try to listen to your suggestions if possible 
37 – A hand in the dark ?
You decide to let the advisor bring the secretary away, and to use the opportunity to investigate the crime scene with less supervision. The secretary screams his innocence as they bring him away, but you reason you can always petition for his innocence later if you find evidence he did not commit the murder. Three soldiers stay here with you. A pity, looks like you won't be able to peruse the guild documents in the libraries.
You start out by inspecting the cupboard and the cabinet. Though you can't start reading, you make sure there's nothing out of place here. No weapons, no place to hide, no obviously missing items. Hmm, seems nothing is out of the ordinary.
Then you look around the room, but there's not much else besides the desk, and certainly no place to hide. You take a look at the desk, and sure it's empty. Oh, the drawers are empty as well. Ok, this is strange, wasn't the merchant supposed to work on some documents? Where are the documents? There's nothing here, it really does seem that whomever killed Herzil... fled with the documents? So... if it was the secretary, he either has them, or he hid them somewhere... You must keep this in mind.
You move on to the body, sitting on a chair and with the head laying on the desk with a big pool of blood under him. You ask the soldiers to help you pull the body up... They cringe a bit at the thought but agree. And here you notice something strange. The pool of blood is rather big yes, but it's rather.. regular. Isn't someone whose throat is cut supposed to trash around at least a bit? There's no drops of blood anywhere. Not on the floor, nor on most of the merchant's clothes. It's as if the merchant had his head on the desk already, and someone cut his throat, and he didn't even twitch.
You keep looking the crime scene, but are out of other ideas. However, when you're about to give up you notice something that immediately strikes you as important. The dead man's fingers are.. yellow? A dark, yellow shade that is hard to see in the torchlight, but still you're sure it's there. You ask one of the man to open the window, maybe you'll see better. But once he reaches the window, he speaks in a surprised tone.
"Oh look, I thought it was closed, but the window is actually open" You quickly move to take a look, and sure enough the window is slightly ajar. There are heavy bars though, no man could pass through. But maybe you could go and take a look under it, see if something was thrown out.
Back to the body for now though. You tell the soldiers you want to disrobe the merchant, search for other possible causes of death. They cringe, but agree. You start with the torso, and there immediately you find the answer for the yellow fingers. On the back of the man, near the neck, there's an... insect sting? Or maybe, a prick? Anyway, a small injury... and around it, a rather large yellow-purple blotch on the skin. You are no expert by any mean, but you remember your mother lessons on healing clearly. This is the work of poison. This man was poisoned, either through a prick, or maybe an insect sting. You wonder if this was the cause of death....
You look around, but find nothing else. You ask two soldiers to stay here until you can talk to the Lord, so that nobody can alter the scene. With the other man, you go outside, under the window. You look around carefully, but see nothing of interest, nothing that could have been thrown out either. You are about to go back inside, maybe try to ask some questions to other merchants, when Lord Tilash arrives.
"Well Kyoss, my advisor brought back a screaming secretary and accused him of the murder. But I noticed you did not come back with him. Why is that?"
Better not lie here. You explain that you wanted to look around better, because you were not convinced that every possibility had been taken into consideration.
"Good, and? Did you find anything? Do you have any other theories?"
What are you going to tell to Lord Tilash? What is your reconstruction of the murder? What do you suggest to do from now on? (open update)
Go, medieval-fantasy Sherlock
EDIT: a couple more answers, as written below.
1) No human being can pass through those bars, unless there's a way to open them. They spaces are small enough to block even dogs.
2) The window is on the second floor, facing a small alley. It's not very trafficked.
37 – A hand in the dark ?
You decide to let the advisor bring the secretary away, and to use the opportunity to investigate the crime scene with less supervision. The secretary screams his innocence as they bring him away, but you reason you can always petition for his innocence later if you find evidence he did not commit the murder. Three soldiers stay here with you. A pity, looks like you won't be able to peruse the guild documents in the libraries.
You start out by inspecting the cupboard and the cabinet. Though you can't start reading, you make sure there's nothing out of place here. No weapons, no place to hide, no obviously missing items. Hmm, seems nothing is out of the ordinary.
Then you look around the room, but there's not much else besides the desk, and certainly no place to hide. You take a look at the desk, and sure it's empty. Oh, the drawers are empty as well. Ok, this is strange, wasn't the merchant supposed to work on some documents? Where are the documents? There's nothing here, it really does seem that whomever killed Herzil... fled with the documents? So... if it was the secretary, he either has them, or he hid them somewhere... You must keep this in mind.
You move on to the body, sitting on a chair and with the head laying on the desk with a big pool of blood under him. You ask the soldiers to help you pull the body up... They cringe a bit at the thought but agree. And here you notice something strange. The pool of blood is rather big yes, but it's rather.. regular. Isn't someone whose throat is cut supposed to trash around at least a bit? There's no drops of blood anywhere. Not on the floor, nor on most of the merchant's clothes. It's as if the merchant had his head on the desk already, and someone cut his throat, and he didn't even twitch.
You keep looking the crime scene, but are out of other ideas. However, when you're about to give up you notice something that immediately strikes you as important. The dead man's fingers are.. yellow? A dark, yellow shade that is hard to see in the torchlight, but still you're sure it's there. You ask one of the man to open the window, maybe you'll see better. But once he reaches the window, he speaks in a surprised tone.
"Oh look, I thought it was closed, but the window is actually open" You quickly move to take a look, and sure enough the window is slightly ajar. There are heavy bars though, no man could pass through. But maybe you could go and take a look under it, see if something was thrown out.
Back to the body for now though. You tell the soldiers you want to disrobe the merchant, search for other possible causes of death. They cringe, but agree. You start with the torso, and there immediately you find the answer for the yellow fingers. On the back of the man, near the neck, there's an... insect sting? Or maybe, a prick? Anyway, a small injury... and around it, a rather large yellow-purple blotch on the skin. You are no expert by any mean, but you remember your mother lessons on healing clearly. This is the work of poison. This man was poisoned, either through a prick, or maybe an insect sting. You wonder if this was the cause of death....
You look around, but find nothing else. You ask two soldiers to stay here until you can talk to the Lord, so that nobody can alter the scene. With the other man, you go outside, under the window. You look around carefully, but see nothing of interest, nothing that could have been thrown out either. You are about to go back inside, maybe try to ask some questions to other merchants, when Lord Tilash arrives.
"Well Kyoss, my advisor brought back a screaming secretary and accused him of the murder. But I noticed you did not come back with him. Why is that?"
Better not lie here. You explain that you wanted to look around better, because you were not convinced that every possibility had been taken into consideration.
"Good, and? Did you find anything? Do you have any other theories?"
What are you going to tell to Lord Tilash? What is your reconstruction of the murder? What do you suggest to do from now on? (open update)
Go, medieval-fantasy Sherlock
EDIT: a couple more answers, as written below.
1) No human being can pass through those bars, unless there's a way to open them. They spaces are small enough to block even dogs.
2) The window is on the second floor, facing a small alley. It's not very trafficked.
Baltika9
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
- Messages
- 9,611
Definitely a conspiracy here. Better take a look at the window and check the secretary's desk and belongings for documents, but there's no guarantee that will give us anything. If it were really him, he'd probably stash them somewhere remote, or a hidden nook in the building, OR pass it to his co-conspirators. Since we don't have the time, though.
1. This is just a theory, and I'd say much more investigations and inquiries should be made, but the carpenters get one of their men, probably a nobody, to "accidentally" bump into the merchant, prick him inconspicuously, like a pat on the back or something like that. The secretary was either bribed to look the other way, or the window really does have a hidden mechanism, probably the latter. Jump in, the merchant's already poisoned, probably not lethal, throat is slashed, documents taken, jump back out, trololol away.
1. This is just a theory, and I'd say much more investigations and inquiries should be made, but the carpenters get one of their men, probably a nobody, to "accidentally" bump into the merchant, prick him inconspicuously, like a pat on the back or something like that. The secretary was either bribed to look the other way, or the window really does have a hidden mechanism, probably the latter. Jump in, the merchant's already poisoned, probably not lethal, throat is slashed, documents taken, jump back out, trololol away.
m4davis
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
- Messages
- 557
2.Theres a lack of the documents he was supposed to be handling which means if the secretary actually committed the crime he would have to have them or he hid them somewhere. The window was open but there were bars not enough for a man to get through but big enough to throw something out or in I haven't had the chance to look there yet. he obviously had his throat cut but and heres the interesting part theres no signs of struggle and no blood spatter. Now probably the most important thing I need to mention is that he had dark yellow fingers and a prick on his back surrounded by the same vial shade of yellow as well as some dark purple witch implies he was poisoned. It also helps explain the lack of blood spatter and resistance because its more then likely that he was already dead when his throat was cut. Which wouldn't make much sense to do unless your trying to frame someone like our secretary friend here.
Kashmir Slippers
Magister
What he said.
ScubaV
Prophet
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2011
- Messages
- 1,022
Let's look at the facts:
1)The merchant was almost certainly either killed or paralyzed by this prick/sting because of the blood pattern and lack of signs of struggle.
2)His throat was therefore sliced open after death or while paralyzed.
3)Unless there is a secret passage of some sort whoever sliced him open came in and left through the front door because of the bars on the window.
4)Again, excepting a secret passage, the slicer either had his own key or was let in voluntarily.
5)Whoever sliced him took the documents he was working on.
6)There is a four hour window period in which he could have been killed.
Suspects: the secretary.
The secretary had means and opportunity, but no motive that we know of.
Unknowns:
Why is the window open?
What was this prick/sting?
Assuming the secretary is innocent, how did the slicer get in and out without him knowing?
Where is the weapon that cut the merchant open?
Where are the documents?
If magic is involved that could totally fuck up our logic process, but so far we haven't seen, heard, or read of magic so let's ignore it. Right now, I don't think we have enough information. We should search the secretary, his desk, maybe his home and ask him for a detailed history of the whole day, especially any time someone bumped into the merchant or if the merchant reacted to something piercing his neck. We should interview other people in the building at the time. We should talk to a local alchemist/herbalist/healer to find out what might have cause the prick/sting. We should also ask for permission to view the other documents in the room. We also may want to canvass any shops or homes in view of the open window to see if anyone saw anything.
I've watched too much Law and Order.
1)The merchant was almost certainly either killed or paralyzed by this prick/sting because of the blood pattern and lack of signs of struggle.
2)His throat was therefore sliced open after death or while paralyzed.
3)Unless there is a secret passage of some sort whoever sliced him open came in and left through the front door because of the bars on the window.
4)Again, excepting a secret passage, the slicer either had his own key or was let in voluntarily.
5)Whoever sliced him took the documents he was working on.
6)There is a four hour window period in which he could have been killed.
Suspects: the secretary.
The secretary had means and opportunity, but no motive that we know of.
Unknowns:
Why is the window open?
What was this prick/sting?
Assuming the secretary is innocent, how did the slicer get in and out without him knowing?
Where is the weapon that cut the merchant open?
Where are the documents?
If magic is involved that could totally fuck up our logic process, but so far we haven't seen, heard, or read of magic so let's ignore it. Right now, I don't think we have enough information. We should search the secretary, his desk, maybe his home and ask him for a detailed history of the whole day, especially any time someone bumped into the merchant or if the merchant reacted to something piercing his neck. We should interview other people in the building at the time. We should talk to a local alchemist/herbalist/healer to find out what might have cause the prick/sting. We should also ask for permission to view the other documents in the room. We also may want to canvass any shops or homes in view of the open window to see if anyone saw anything.
I've watched too much Law and Order.
Rumsfeld
Scholar
Good summary by ScubaV.
Let's not forget the known unknowns.
Let's not forget the known unknowns.
Zwist
Learned
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 236
Theory1:The merchant was probably poisoned with a projectile through the window(which someone opened beforehand). The murderer(need not be the archer, the poison might be to prevent resistance) got inside, took the documents and/or threw them through the window to a waiting accomplice(how visible is the window? If it is very visible, this is unlikely), sliced the merchants throat, and left(probably through the door).
Why the documents? Because the documents might indicate who is responsible. What could that mean? Either the merchant was blackmailing someone or he had business with someone which the person in question does not want to come to light.
Or more embarassing: This could have been related to the merchant contacting us and the information related to the carpenter (maybe our blabbermouthing lead to his death? That would have some rather dire implications, as the suspects in that case are rather illustrious, us only telling Kalz in the home of the lord and all that...)
The number of documents taken indicate the second possibility, this could however also be due to the person collecting the documents not being able to read or not having the time going through them all.
The chronological overlap too the trouble with the caravan indicates that those events were planned to work together. Now, what reason could someone have to *want* that? One possibility is to prevent the caravan from leaving. Another is that the problem with the caravan was meant to be an distraction.
If it was meant as distraction the timeframe for the deed is when the secretary answered the door, meaning the person was in the house at the time. We should make sure that nobody who should be here is missing. Also it might be prudent to search the house for a big stack of documents being somewhere it should not be. Starting with the secretaries private quarters(if someone wanted to pin the blame on him) in particular and private quarters generally. Or if there are places where extra documents would not stick out, a library would be a good bet.
And for another theory: Depending on how far from each other the bars on the window are our murder could be a child(or someone else with that stature) omitting the need for a key.
What is important here are the documents, and by far so.
If they were thrown out of the window they could be anywhere, placing them in a backpack is enough to sufficiently hide them, but if they are in the house we need to find them.
In regards to the secretary: He remains a suspect. But mostly of being and accomplice.
Certain things do however point towards it not being him: Him not fleeing, his reaction when we saw him, the fact that someone deliberately sliced the merchants throat in order to hide the poison.
If he was involved he likely is a sacrifical lamb, but whoever involved him would need to have some serious pressure on him in order to keep him from spilling the beans.
I do not think he would have acted this way if he was working alone, the circumstances as the poison scream professional, and a professional would not have been caught.
The fact that he is taken in custody has one advantage though: Whoever the killer is, he probably noticed the secretary being dragged through the streets, feeling safe now.
Someone should however go to talk to him regarding people he met recently(last week), if a key was involved, he was a likely source for it.
If he got close to someone he did not know before, find that person.
Seeing as he still is the only suspect we have, he probably will be eager to help.
Also:
ScubaV
Why the documents? Because the documents might indicate who is responsible. What could that mean? Either the merchant was blackmailing someone or he had business with someone which the person in question does not want to come to light.
Or more embarassing: This could have been related to the merchant contacting us and the information related to the carpenter (maybe our blabbermouthing lead to his death? That would have some rather dire implications, as the suspects in that case are rather illustrious, us only telling Kalz in the home of the lord and all that...)
The number of documents taken indicate the second possibility, this could however also be due to the person collecting the documents not being able to read or not having the time going through them all.
The chronological overlap too the trouble with the caravan indicates that those events were planned to work together. Now, what reason could someone have to *want* that? One possibility is to prevent the caravan from leaving. Another is that the problem with the caravan was meant to be an distraction.
If it was meant as distraction the timeframe for the deed is when the secretary answered the door, meaning the person was in the house at the time. We should make sure that nobody who should be here is missing. Also it might be prudent to search the house for a big stack of documents being somewhere it should not be. Starting with the secretaries private quarters(if someone wanted to pin the blame on him) in particular and private quarters generally. Or if there are places where extra documents would not stick out, a library would be a good bet.
And for another theory: Depending on how far from each other the bars on the window are our murder could be a child(or someone else with that stature) omitting the need for a key.
What is important here are the documents, and by far so.
If they were thrown out of the window they could be anywhere, placing them in a backpack is enough to sufficiently hide them, but if they are in the house we need to find them.
In regards to the secretary: He remains a suspect. But mostly of being and accomplice.
Certain things do however point towards it not being him: Him not fleeing, his reaction when we saw him, the fact that someone deliberately sliced the merchants throat in order to hide the poison.
If he was involved he likely is a sacrifical lamb, but whoever involved him would need to have some serious pressure on him in order to keep him from spilling the beans.
I do not think he would have acted this way if he was working alone, the circumstances as the poison scream professional, and a professional would not have been caught.
The fact that he is taken in custody has one advantage though: Whoever the killer is, he probably noticed the secretary being dragged through the streets, feeling safe now.
Someone should however go to talk to him regarding people he met recently(last week), if a key was involved, he was a likely source for it.
If he got close to someone he did not know before, find that person.
Seeing as he still is the only suspect we have, he probably will be eager to help.
Also:
ScubaVJust a couple of answers to Zwist's post, since you can SEE this.
1) No human being can pass through those bars, unless there's a way to open them (like a secret mechanism). They spaces are small enough to block even dogs. Well, a toddler would, maybe. But that's an unlikely culprit
2) The window is on the second floor, facing a small alley. It's not very trafficked.
Hrm, think I'll add these information to the update
1) No human being can pass through those bars, unless there's a way to open them (like a secret mechanism). They spaces are small enough to block even dogs. Well, a toddler would, maybe. But that's an unlikely culprit
2) The window is on the second floor, facing a small alley. It's not very trafficked.
Hrm, think I'll add these information to the update
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,835
It seems a bit impractical to poison a man then slash his throat to make doubly sure he's dead. Consider perhaps that two people wanted to kill the merchant, the first poisoned him, and just as he was succumbing to its effects, leaning with his head to the desk, the other came in and slashed his throat. He was killed twice by two unrelated individuals.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,835
That's more likely, but I prefer my more obscure unlikely theory that two people wanted to kill him and made two attempts, unaware of the other.
Also...
Also...
Go, medieval-fantasy Sherlock
Baltika9
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
- Messages
- 9,611
[/quote]
See, without an investigation, we can't say anything for sure. The only person we can definitely say WANTED the merchant boss dead would be the carpenters, and even then we don't know why. I mean, we never saw the secretary, we don't know anything about him. We don't have a motive. Vernydar says we're pretty much in charge, right? Let's investigate before we tell the Lord anything decisive. We'll need to make it quick, of course, our primary duty is getting the wagon out of here.
TOME
Cuckmaster General
- Joined
- May 25, 2012
- Messages
- 1,820
Let's rule out the secretery as a suspect. I mean this is medieval setting. And without us, what would have happened? The soldiers came and saw the door was locked and secretery had the only key --> secretery is guilty. Off with his head.
Any intelligent person would have known this would happen. So if the secretery did kill him, then he would have run after the murder.
Suggestions: Search the room once more for secret doors. From floor to ceiling. If we don't find anything, then magic was used or someone with key did it.
Any intelligent person would have known this would happen. So if the secretery did kill him, then he would have run after the murder.
Suggestions: Search the room once more for secret doors. From floor to ceiling. If we don't find anything, then magic was used or someone with key did it.
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