Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Game News Beyond Beyaan, an Opensource Space 4X Engine

Discussion in 'Tacticular News & Content' started by Mraston, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Mrastongender: ⚧ Tacticular Staff

    Mraston
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    Tags: Beyond Beyaan

    [​IMG]

    Beyond Beyaan is an open source 4X space strategy game inspired by Masters Of Orion. Interestingly it's developer plans to make it an open source affair with the focus being the creation of an engine for other users to make their own 4X space games.

    It's been in development a few years and a Kickstarter has just begun to help finish the work off. The campaign is asking for a meagre $2000 and apparently these funds will be solely used to purchase art work for the game. The current scaled back pixel art looks perfectly utilitarian but some flair wouldn't go astray, so this seems a good idea.

    The only catch is the planned races sound slightly retarded including Treecyborgs, Space Hamsters and Velociraptors. Here's the description for the Parrot Race:

    "Pyrrhans (New race) - Those parrots somehow managed to gain enough intelligence to build starships, but yet they still crave crackers and name their children Polly. They also seek vengeance against pirates for abusing them for generations, hates Space Hamsters and Humans."

    There is also a demo available if your itching to play out the epic space battles between the Treecyborgs and Space Hamsters straight away.
     
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  2. Overboardgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Overboard
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    Beware attacks into your wormhole.
     
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  3. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

    Hellraiser
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    Well it's an open source 4X engine yes, why would you care if they put in retarded races if you can code in new ones yourself?

    ALSO WHAT THE HELL IS A GAMEPAD ICON DOING ON THE UI. GET CONSOLE POPAMOLE OFF MY 4X :x
     
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  4. Mrastongender: ⚧ Tacticular Staff

    Mraston
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    Maybe its just a tab for a civilizations entertainment tech tree.
     
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  5. Zeraangender: ⚧ Novice

    Zeraan
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    Hey, developer here. First of all, thanks for the mention!

    I too don't like the "console" button, it was the artist's idea (It's supposed to be the game menu). I was planning on asking the artist to re-do it so it'd look like a menu button, but it has fallen down my list of priorities... Forgive me? I promise you that I will banish all console popamole to 9th level before I release the final version!

    As for "retarded" races, heh. Some space 4X games I just have difficulties remembering which races are which. "Uh, that blob thingy is Name X? No wait, that's Name Y!". This is one reason why I'm doing my races the way they are now, easy to remember :) If you have problems with that, then yeah you can just replace the artwork and description, or even remove the race completely in the data files.
     
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  6. Mrastongender: ⚧ Tacticular Staff

    Mraston
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    Spacehamsters and Treecyborgs are certainly hard to forget!

    Looking forward to the finished product.
     
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  7. tiagocc0gender: ⚧ Arcane

    tiagocc0
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    Welcome to the Codex Brent, it's nice to see you here.
    Maybe you could create a thread in the workshop or ask for your own subforum (that's what I did), this is a great place to gather ideas.
     
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  8. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    If I only had jewgoldz...
    Good thing author has compromised himself with popamole removal.
    Didn't see races, I don't mind weird and utterly alien races, but...
     
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  9. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    More comments:

    Graphics seem a bit simple. Can we change it?

    Ah, that makes sense.
    I think most 4X space games suffer that. Only ones whose races I remember were Master of Orion 2 (Psilons, Elerians and Silacoids!) and Alpha Centauri (need I say more?). There were the Cue-Cappa from Space Empires IV who were rather interesting and were cheesy as well with their super-research juggernault.

    I think the key is to make factions Alpha Centauri style: Unique, memorable and inter-weaved with fluff.
     
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  10. Zeraangender: ⚧ Novice

    Zeraan
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    Yes, you can replace the artwork. It's not compressed or encrypted to prevent modding :) In fact, if you read my third update on the kickstarter, I may have found an artist who can provide alternative artwork, so you'll be able to select between two artworks. This is a stretch goal however, if I hit $4,000 then this will become a reality!

    Exactly! While Master of Orion 1/2 races may have been cheesy, at least they were memorable! I can remember every race effortlessly. However, in Master of Orion 3, they tried to make it more "realistic" by removing the cheesy races and adding "realistic" races such as water or gas giant races. The end result? I can't remember most of the new races, and I'm confused between the water and gas races... It don't help that everything is abstracted away, and you only see the empire's race in diplomacy screen, but nowhere else. No scientific/spy/trading tech screen where you see the cheesy scientist. No visible ground troops, etc...
     
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  11. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    There's never enough 4X in the world, so good luck to you.
     
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  12. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Suggestion to Zeraan:

    Can you add support for a feature that allows two or more nations/factions players on the same planet? Could make colonization more contested, as well as allow planets with multiple polities of the same or even different races competing against each other from the same planet.
     
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  13. tiagocc0gender: ⚧ Arcane

    tiagocc0
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    Tell us more about how you imagine it would play like.
    I find this an interesting idea but if not implemented correctly could be an ass to develop as well as confusing to play.
     
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  14. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Two (or more) polities on the same planet. Race to space and all that.
    You can't simply bumrush your enemy with a groundtroops rush because both sides start with nukes/super bio-weapons/some sort of WMD so MAD is in effect. So you gotta think on how you go about this if you want to unify your planet, unless you want to get your main world nuked.
    Relations bonus with the other polity if its of the same race because people from the same race would logically have better diplomacy between each other than with aliens.

    This could also work for a system in which two or more races colonize the same planet.
     
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  15. tiagocc0gender: ⚧ Arcane

    tiagocc0
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    This would be really interesting with a culture mechanic where if you are too close to another race/faction and your culture sucks your people will start to like them more than they like you.
     
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  16. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    A excellent idea.


    Also, I would suggest to make a faction limit beyond the typical 8-12-16 players in most 4X games. Paradox games can run with more than 100 countries in a world-map and no serious trouble, why should we feature large ammounts of space with only 8 polities? I find that too few.
     
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  17. tiagocc0gender: ⚧ Arcane

    tiagocc0
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    Most of the 100 countries however are very tiny with almost nothing to do at any given turn.
    But on a turn based game that shouldn't be a problem I think.
     
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  18. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughtergender: ⚧ Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Indeed, but they are THERE, and that means they can at some point be important.

    For example, it would be nice if that little odd seemingly-useless starsystem nobody colonized suddently spawned forth a race of primitive but rentless star-conquering hordes that started to attack nearby systems and take their stuff in a nightmarish pace.

    Or if that Kuiper-Belt colonized by multiple powers suddently got some revolutions and BAM, you got a confederation of Black Colonies turning into a new power.

    Things like that, keep it dynamic.
     
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  19. tiagocc0gender: ⚧ Arcane

    tiagocc0
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    I usually like to avoid these things because it can kill a perfectly good game.
    If balanced correctly though could be good.

    Like in Stardrive when I was killed right at the start because an alien fucker found an ancient ship so it just went killing everyone on their path.

    If some hints could be given and you could prepare at least a little would be good.
    Like saying that an great empire population looks odd and that people are acting strange.
    Or that strange readings have been noted on a distant world.

    EDIT: I'm not against having it and also an option to turn it on or off.
    So when I feel like I want a challange I can turn the sucker on.
     
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  20. Zeraangender: ⚧ Novice

    Zeraan
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    I actually considered having multiple empires on the same planet, but ran into implementation issues. For example, let's say you have a planet that's 50% yours, and 50% another empire (Empire "X"). I can easily display the name in 50% your empire color, and 50% X's empire color to show percentage of ownership. However, how does one do ground combat? How to handle UI for the planet? What if a portion of their population joins yours, it'd need to show races that you have control over. How should I handle it code-wise?

    For now, I decided that each planet can only have one owner to keep things simple. Once I get the game's basic gameplay working, then I'll look into adding fancy features. Random events that spawns a new empire sounds intriguing. One problem with that is if it spawns late in the game, other empires can crush it with their superior fleets/technology...

    There's a lot of possible ways to make the game more complicated, but at the moment, I just want to have a working game before I add many other features that I have in mind :)
     
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  21. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Random new empire wouldn't work, as you said, for those exact reasons. Unless there's a RP/trade/diplomatic reason for keeping "minor" races around. However, splinter empires would still work - so a major empire that is suffering from dissent, might have 1/3rd or even half of its planets split away. They would have the same tech as the parent empire and, for easier coding, all installations and ships stationed in those systems would switch to them.

    For ground combat, instead of having MoO1/2-style one "hex" wins it all, add a screen that shows 4-16 hexes, that portray the planet - number is dependent on the size of the stellar body, naturally. Then players can wage extended ground campaigns instead of just a single fight deciding it all.
     
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  22. Norfleetgender: ⚧ Moderator

    Norfleet
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    That seems to be the problem a map that is known and finite at the start of the game. What if you implemented the game such that the map did not have a known, finite limit at the start of the game, and the game essentially made it up as it went along? This would allow you to simply drop in a large empire by generating a chunk of map on the fly and plugging it into an area the player hasn't explored out yet, while not having to simulate and process this thing through the entire game.

    Spore essentially took this approach: The great beyond was basically just ungenerated void until the player encountered it, and at some point another empire would simply spawn out there for the player to find on demand as he explored. It also keeps the player from being able to run away with the game too easily. If the rest of the map has to exist from the beginning of the game and play out, the player can simply have achieved a runaway victory by the time he ever encounters it...if the map spawns on the fly, and only then does it begin to play, the player can always encounter new challenges out there.
     
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  23. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    You can tweak it further by adding a random element to the empire-creation, like Aurora does, so that a player might encounter a roughly equal or technologically superior or technologically inferior empires and so on.
     
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  24. Zeraangender: ⚧ Novice

    Zeraan
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    With a finite map, this approach isn't too different from an galaxy that is simulated the whole time the player is playing. For example, if you meet another empire, there won't be much difference between it being generated on the fly there and being simulated, the end result is the same, you didn't know it's there until you explored.

    However, with an infinite map (i.e. Minecraft or other prodecurally generated games), it's impossible to simulate everything, so generating things on fly is the answer. This also poses an issue. If the tech tree is limited, it'd be easy to just wait (since enemies aren't generated yet) and max out your tech tree, then go on a rampage, devouring all in your path. So I'll need to change how technology works (maybe they're things that you discover while exploring, instead of researching, for example).

    Those will be very radical changes, while possible, will require me re-doing everything. So that's not an option now. But maybe later I can add other galaxies that you can explore that are generated dynamically (so each galaxy is generated dynamically, is finite and simulated once generated, but the possible number of galaxies are infinite). Think of SimAnt, with the overview of the backyard, but with each square being a galaxy.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Speaking of having multiple empires on the same planet, thank you for bringing that point. Ever since you brought it up, I've been gnawing on that thought, and the idea of regions in my game, and realized that I can change how things work so that each "Object" can have a subset of "Object"'s, which mean that each Region is a subset of Planet object, and each Region could have subset of Cities, and so forth, but for my base game I'll have it limited to regions and planets. They will all use the same UI and data structure, so the game can handle any number of subsets, but you'll have to drill down. I believe that I may have an UI model that would work seamlessly with this, and that it'll open up multiple owners in the same planet. Now I need to figure out how to do ground combat and few other small details to have it all work.
     
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  25. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    You can also exponentially increase the cost of late-game technology, so that a player cannot just turtle forever in his starting system.
     
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