Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Xzar, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Ion Prothon II Liturgist

    Ion Prothon II
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    Click here and disable ads!
    What's so awesome about opensource IE (not a reverse- engineered hack)? Possibility to play BG on iShits and handhelds? Infinity games are so modded and patched, that such thing isn't needed to fix technical issues. Source code becoming suddenly open and available for everyone would be nice, but it has no real value *now*.
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  2. Johannes Arcane

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    What if it's a Black Cat ? :O
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  3. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    The ability to create a turn-based combat build of the engine, duh! :bounce:
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  4. gunman Savant

    gunman
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    If it hasn't Boo in it then fuck off
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  5. Menckenstein Lunacy of Caen: Todd Reaver

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    Then fuck it!
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  6. SCO Arcane

    SCO
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    The "complete" word makes me think they will use the modders work to put out a minimal BGT game (man i'd be pissed if it was tutu, it's clearly inferior). It would probably be a coup among the lesser-luddite majority (lusers), but it's the kind of thing you need to invest actual resources to do (stealing and testing mostly), so maybe not.

    It's not like the modder community around baldur's gate needs YET ANOTHER version of the game to take into account though.

    It would need horrendous refactoring and reengineering for that. No if you want that, bug really hard the GemRB guys. I doubt they'll listen though. The data drives the design, and the data (ai scripts mostly) is just not ready to have TB combat i think.
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  7. hoverdog dog that is hovering

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    but with the right or left hand? M:
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  8. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    No shit. But at least it would be possible. Don't underestimate the power of bored nerds.
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  9. SCO Arcane

    SCO
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    It's more possible now with gemrb than it would be with the source itself. Why do people think that code from bioware is more flexible than code from them? They even used python for the user interface.
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  10. deuxhero Prophet

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    Bioware's coding is barely better than Bethesda's. If we did see the IE source, we would find the parts held together by bubblegum and office tape are the MOST sturdy.
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  11. Ion Prothon II Liturgist

    Ion Prothon II
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    Just wanted to write about it. The original engine is in all propability an amazing clusterfuck, hard to extend or modify in any significant way. From waht I saw, the architecture of IE is very rigid and many things are hardcoded or implemented in an unfriendly way. Don;t also forget what company the developers were from and how buggy the games used to be/ still are. However, making combat to look like TOEE wouldn't affect the code too much.
    So, modding the IE to get the TB combat wouldn't be too challenging. But hacking IE (vrsion designed for a specific game, like BG, IWD and so on) to get the TB combat for an existing game WITHOUT BREAKING THE GAME, would be a coding nightmare.
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  12. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Maybe, maybe not. Remember, they used this engine for many years, so it's possible they had time to code it properly.

    For example, it doesn't seem to have taken the Black Isle guys very long to convert it to D&D 3E.
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  13. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Anyone know how hard it would be to include a grid and make Pause and Unpause seperare buttons?
    Seems to me that would be the two easiest things to do to reduce the clusterfuckness of combat. I grew to like IE combat after initially disliking it, but I still have some control problems with some of the combats involving lots of "smart" enemies.
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  14. SCO Arcane

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    Actually, i admire IE data driven design conceptually.

    The only reason we have so many mods, and (especially) they can be made to work together is the external table driven design (often extensible!) they used for that data; and not only that, but that the AI scripts had multiple extension hooks, that ALL ran if filled (the AI slots, which together form a descending cascade of ifs... if one is true, execute and back to the start). It took until weidu really did all the hard work of figuring out a way to extend dialogs and scripts and spell effects and to program a preprocessor/prog. language for it all click together though. It could be better, but it's not bad at all.

    But i'm pretty sure that inside, it's a clusterfuck. And editing the AI scripts (often hacked into a soup by mods - eg: the "invisible creature trick") to take into account Attacks of opportunity, interrupts, initiative, positioning, reach weapons? Forget it boss, it's IE.


    I don't think the pathfinding operates over a grid under the hood. It's probably translating origin+vector+time to pixel coordinates, so a grid would be meaningless. You could probably put out a few pretty lines for the path found, to see what the dumb pathfinding would try to do if nothing changes, but this doesn't work if the game is not turnbased: pathfinding is inherently dynamic, paths get blocked, AI changes target, other actors are also moving and will block your path in the future, or a door is closed etc (this is the reason IE pathfinding sucks, it operates on single actors and is almost a RTS in number of opponents).

    As for the pause and unpause separate buttons, easy. I think it's even possible just by modding if you get creative (you not be able to use space, that is hardcoded i think)... though there are probably edge cases where you couldn't pause when you wanted or worse, pause when you shouldn't.
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  15. Ion Prothon II Liturgist

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    Adding a new button wouldn't be a problem. But grid? What grid? Entire game mechanics is based upon vectors and polygons in 2D space, not fields. To have the field- based combat, one would have to rewrite like half of all gameplay- related code. And it's not all! There must be implemented 2 separate gameplay mechanics: for normal "free" walking around and for TB with movement units and shit.
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  16. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Well, any kind of way to tell if two of my own characters form a shield wall would help. It was bloody frustrating in IWD 2 to have large half-ogres and similar squeese between my fighters who I though were standing shoulder to shoulder, and then head right for the defenseless mage.
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  17. Ion Prothon II Liturgist

    Ion Prothon II
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    Everything you can do in an Infinity game, is to place the 2 collision elipses as close as you can to each other and pray the collision manager interpretes it properly :lol:
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  18. SCO Arcane

    SCO
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    Correct. But choosing the right AI script also helps. A defensive one for your melee fighters that doesn't allow them to chase after aggressors without a manual attack order, just to react, and to turn on the "pause options" when the opponent is dead or a spell is cast helps.
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  19. villain of the story Unwanted

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    Listen, pal. Newfags don't go around talking shit about crap they don't know around here. We don't like that. No, we don't. Not at all. Do you understand? Are you following me? Now go and peruse 5+ years of past discussions on the subject and if you haven't went insane by then and still find yourself wanting of a cock detailed answer...






    ...then we'll just lock you up for being too fucking stupid for your own good.

    R00FLES!
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  20. deuxhero Prophet

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    Vectors... The vectors are all wrong
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  21. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    If there's a BG3 it has to be based on this:
    [​IMG]
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  22. PorkaMorka Arcane

    PorkaMorka
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    I certainly don't support some retarded turn based IE pipe dream, but I just wanted to point out that all the good infinity engine games were 2nd edition D&D, so you don't have to worry about attacks of opportunity or reach weapons (or a bunch of other difficult rules like 5 foot steps).
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  23. Ion Prothon II Liturgist

    Ion Prothon II
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    Hi there.:M
    (got some feeling this post won't see the dawn)
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  24. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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  25. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    This wouldn't surprise me, similar things happened with some of the Fallout 2 re-releases where they put kilaps unofficial patch directly on the disc without asking him in any way or crediting him.
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