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Batman: Arkham Knight

Mangoose

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Anyways, technical update. The main issue seems to be retarded texture streaming. Like, FPS is fine (more than the 20fps argument lol) buuut as you move around the city, gliding and especially driving, a million textures load like crazy and your FPS takes drop intervals/stutters. And not in a PC optimized way - since consoles can share VRAM and RAM.. or something, not to mention also quick connection to the HD. So it's just textures.. needing processing and hardware I/O to load them correctly. It actually doesn't kill my RAM or VRAM at all, it just takes extra effort from other systems.

However it seems this problem has been remedied pretty well by the guy here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=467817222 He simply optimized the way/rate/etctextures were loading and evicting, and then also found out on the side that running it with OpenGL (ini option) and borderless window help a lot.

So, looks like high end graphics cards have nothing to worry about for now (technical-wise). 800s-900s, I assume.

I'm not sure if I mentioned that I have a 650ti Boost and an AMX-6300 as well as my SSD having died about half a year ago. That's why I say 20 fps is playable - because I've done it for years and years and years. I'm a cheap chink and my way of dealing with PCs is cost effectiveness rather than buying the best system possible, but I suppose both are valid methods.

BTW I mentioned Morrowind as unplayable because you'd spend a week or two downloading mods, then evaluating compatibility, and then get too burnt out to actually play the game.
 

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For those who have been able to play the game, how are the side missions? (apart from crappy batmobile stuff?) Are there plenty of sidequests with B/C-list Batman villains like in Arkham City?
 

Mangoose

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It was foolish to use a last-gen engine (UE3) for next-gen systems in the first place. Now the devs have to clean this (costly) mess up instead of enjoying their sex vacation in Thailand.
The problem with the ports is not changing things that the consoles are better at compared to PCs. E.g. the texture loading/massive textures in my last post. Somehow the guy above just remedied part of that with much better texture loading config settings. But even then the "porters" should be optimizing those textures a lot more to be less based on pure texel number. Maybe more emphasis on normal maps? I dunno, I don't know that stuff.

I mean seriously the game runs fine if you stand in place. But if you are moving around at 50MPH in the Batmobile, it's constantly loading texture after texture after texture.

To be honest the main shitty thing about AK is that you can't turn off shit - shit being DX11. So it's not like I'm turning down settings to medium/low... it's that I can't even. I can't turn off tessellation and make there be less rain. "AllowD3D9=True" or "AllowD3D10=True don't" do anything. Apparently "AllowOpenGL=True" actually did increase FPS but Afterburner still says it's running in Dx11 so I have no idea.

I clearly remember that the only way I played Arkham City was by turning off tessellation, which boosted my FPS by at least 20 fps.

For those who have been able to play the game, how are the side missions? (apart from crappy batmobile stuff?) Are there plenty of sidequests with B/C-list Batman villains like in Arkham City?
I only did one so I won't form a conclusion for you, so calling on root

BTW I just got my first "Batmobile required mission gameplay" and it was a piece of shit.
 

Mangoose

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For those who have been able to play the game, how are the side missions? (apart from crappy batmobile stuff?) Are there plenty of sidequests with B/C-list Batman villains like in Arkham City?
I only did one so I won't form a conclusion for you, so calling on root

BTW I just got my first "Batmobile required mission gameplay" and it was a piece of shit.

i found them in general p boring and uninspired. it's nice that a few of them don't have quest compasses, but most missions are just a repetitive slog. some people say the riddler missions were p gud but i found him so insufferable I quit

Azrael fights were cool I guess.
Who the fuck said the riddler missions were good? Good god fucking god fucking shit they must mean. I couldn't even figure out how to quit out of one. I probably should've just rebooted the game.

I noticed the quest compass thing too but I wasn't sure if that was more of the case. So I can comment on that. On one of the sidequests, I was only directed to one waypoint, and then only had a verbal clue where to go next. And while the clue seems obvious, there's no waypoint so I'll have to search through the city trying to find said next area.

Edit: It's funny because the Riddler missions in AC were pretty good.
 

dunno lah

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It kinda reminds me of that bit in The Force Unleashed where you have to force a Star Destroyer to crash into a planet using the force. And they hype that bit up so much in the pre-release advertising, have fanboys creaming themselves over how cool it is to be able to do shit like that, and a promo art of it is even slapped on the back of the case. And then you actually get to that segment and it's above and beyond the absolute worst sequence in the game.

Yeah. Even doing yoga in GTA5 was more fun than that.
 

Mangoose

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It kinda reminds me of that bit in The Force Unleashed where you have to force a Star Destroyer to crash into a planet using the force. And they hype that bit up so much in the pre-release advertising, have fanboys creaming themselves over how cool it is to be able to do shit like that, and a promo art of it is even slapped on the back of the case. And then you actually get to that segment and it's above and beyond the absolute worst sequence in the game.

Yeah. Even doing yoga in GTA5 was more fun than that.
Lul. I couldn't play more than 1/3 of the first mission. There was platforming, which is .. wtf in a Jedi game. And the fighting was not interesting at all. Assassin's Creed had better fighting FFS. Just play the Jedi Knight series if you want a Jedi experience - nothing really beats Jedi Outcast imo). Or Republic Commando and Battlefront for general Star Wars.

I think the best modern Jedi combat is in Soul Calibur :lol:
 

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Some guy from Steam forums tweaked the texture streaming to be a lot better for PCs. From comments it has unanimously improved performance, in fact past 60 fps for high end graphics cards (to the point where they actually need VSync or Borderless):

Change AllowOpenGL=False to AllowOpenGL=True (This allows you to use OpenGL for better performance)

[TextureStreaming]
MinTextureResidentMipCount=7
PoolSize=768
MemoryMargin=128
MemoryLoss=0
HysteresisLimit=24
DropMipLevelsLimit=20
StopIncreasingLimit=12
StopStreamingLimit=8
MinEvictSize=1
MinFudgeFactor=1
FudgeFactorIncreaseRateOfChange=0.5
FudgeFactorDecreaseRateOfChange=-0.7
MinRequestedMipsToConsider=10
MinTimeToGuaranteeMinMipCount=4
MaxTimeToGuaranteeMinMipCount=9
UseTextureFileCache=False
LoadMapTimeLimit=0
LightmapStreamingFactor=0.04
ShadowmapStreamingFactor=0.04
MaxLightmapRadius=2000.0
AllowStreamingLightmaps=False
TextureFileCacheBulkDataAlignment=1
UsePriorityStreaming=True
bAllowSwitchingStreamingSystem=True
UseDynamicStreaming=True
bEnableAsyncDefrag=False
bEnableAsyncReallocation=False
MaxDefragRelocations=256
MaxDefragDownShift=128
BoostPlayerTextures=5.0
TemporalAAMemoryReserve=4.0
ReflectionTexturePoolSize=72

Furthermore he added Anisotropic Filtering to all of the texture groups (by default almost all were using Linear.) and still people are performing well.

The code and config was perfectly fine for consoles (reasons mentioned before... VRAM and RAM tied together) but PCs (or rather PC chipsets) run their VRAM and RAM much differently, and Iron whatever did not take that into account at all. Shame on them and WB.
 

Mangoose

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Fuck. Adding aniso to textures fucked me up. Dunno how people are running it over 60 fps still.

Anyways, I think it's safe to say that anyone with a newer high end or possible mid-range graphics card will have no more framerate issues. I say newer because I have a damn 600 series.

Edit:

Gameplay wise, unfortunately now the city is populated by a shitload of tanks. Meaning you're in Battle Mode all the time playing shitty controller shooting. I know, I know, use KB and mouse.. but holding down a key to glide is taxing compared to just holding down A for some reason; I think because you can use your knuckle. I seriously gave a good try to binding keys to play Arkham City. It was perfectly fine (as y'all said) for everything except gliding. It's just too taxing for my atrophied nerd finger muscles.

On the other hand it seems like gliding isn't that bad, so I'm just gliding to avoid drone tanks on the ground.

What a waste. Car mode in the streets and not in missions really was fun in a GTA way. It's a huge misconception that driving the Batmobile is boring or shitty or what have you. You can easily powerslide, sideswipe, have an afterburner, and pull off jumps if you speed up enough. Pop into Battle Mode to reorient yourself easily, then pop back into car mode. Call it in to scare off takedowns, or dive from a tall building straight into the Batmobile. I really enjoyed it. But it looks like it's dead now.
 
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Talby

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Sources: Warner Bros. Knew That Arkham Knight PC Was A Mess For Months

1321561772170683172.jpg


You can’t buy Batman: Arkham Knight for the PC right now. Warner Bros. pulled it from digital and physical shelves last week, after players found that the PC version had critical performance issues. From what sources tell Kotaku, however, this shouldn’t have been a surprise for Warner Bros.

“I will say that it’s pretty rich for WB to act like they had no idea the game was in such a horrible state,” said one quality assurance tester who worked on the game for years. “It’s been like this for months and all the problems we see now were the exact same, unchanged, almost a year ago.”

Two sources, requesting anonymity to avoid jeopardizing their careers, spoke with Kotaku over the past week in hopes of explaining how the broken PC version of Arkham Knight madeit out the door. They both said that Warner Bros. was aware of the many issues facing Arkham Knighton PC and that the publisher chose to ship the game regardless, not to maniacally screw over customers—but because they believed it was good enough.

Warner Bros. did not return my multiple requests for comment.

After suspending sales of Arkham Knight on PC last Wednesday, the company pointed fans towards Steam’s refund page and promised to do right by players:

We want to apologize to those of you who are experiencing performance issues with Batman: Arkham Knight on PC. We take these issues very seriously and have therefore decided to suspend future game sales of the PC version while we work to address these issues to satisfy our quality standards. We greatly value our customers and know that while there are a significant amount of players who are enjoying the game on PC, we want to do whatever we can to make the experience better for PC players overall.

Since then, a minor patch was released for the PC version that addressed some crashing bugs, introduced rain effects, and fixed a few other issues. Warner Bros. described the ongoing workas “significant” and it “will take some time to ensure that we get the right fixes in place.”

As of right now, it’s unclear when it will go on sale again.

PC versions of multi-platform games have been getting better over the years. For a long time, there was no guarantee most console games would even get PC versions. Now, it’s practically assumed. And despite endless articles predicting the PC’s death, the unionization of PC owners under Steam has allowed them to demonstrate their support using the most reliable form of persuasion: money. The question in 2015 is whether or not the PC version of a given game will be any good.

Arkham Knight, sadly, was not. It had a capped frame rate of 30 frames-per-second, despite Nvidia releasing an early marketing video that demonstrated 60 frames-per-second. (The frame rate can be upped by editing a file that Warner Bros. has instructed people to avoid.)

Performance has been dreadful on everything but the most high-end machines, an expectation that was not conveyed prior to release. (When I’m in the Batmobile, it gets as low as 14 FPS on a machine that handled The Witcher 3 at 60 FPS.) And if you’re running the game on a standard HDD, rather than a SDD, since it’s 45GB? Welcome to stutterville, population you.

The PlayStation 4 and Xbox One versions of Arkham Knight are, technically speaking, excellent. They’re gorgeous, run at a solid frame rate, and don’t seem to suffer from any glaring issues.

The PC version of Arkham Knight was built in collaboration between Warner Bros., Rocksteady, and Iron Galaxy Studios. You might know Iron Galaxy for the humorous two-button fighting game Divekick, Killer Instinct: Season Two, or various digital ports of classic Capcom fighters over the years. They were also Warner Bros.’ PC collaborator for Batman: Arkham Origins.

Arkham Knight’s credits list Iron Galaxy as providing “additional engineering and PC support,” which would imply that Rocksteady did the bulk of work there, but from what we’re told, Rocksteady did not work on the PC version—it focused on console.

In the fallout from the PC version, Rocksteady claims it’s now actively working on the PC.





“Getting it to work on consoles was impossible for months,” said our tester source. “That’s part of why the game got delayed so many times, they were totally unprepared for how hard it was on next-gen consoles.”

Another source, who did not work on the QA team but was close to the game’s production, said this closely lined up with what they’d seen and heard throughout the game’s development.

In various meetings, QA teams were told the new consoles were “not nearly as easy to work with as [Rocksteady] expected” and testers should focus time on finding console bugs. This particular team was made up of roughly 100 people, with about 10% focused on the PC version.

“We reported literally thousands of bugs that were specific to the PC version relating to the frame rate,” said our QA source. “All sorts of fucked up texture issues. The Batmobile in particular has always fucked things up on PC.”

(As I noted before, the Batmobile chugs the game down to nearly single digits frames on my PC.)

Arkham Knight is the most sprawling game from Rocksteady yet, in addition to it being their first game on new consoles, so the open world understandably made the bug count stack up.

“Testing a game this big is very different from linear or smaller games,” our source continued. “You usually get a mission, chapter or area of the map, or pick one yourself, and just go to town. You bug everything you see. We had some testers bugging more than 100 bugs per day. Devs would fix what they could but they were juggling that with actually finishing the game so they were insanely slow. Only when the game was done and no new features had to be built could they actually buckle down. Once that happens they also restrict what you can or can’t bug, to ensure that they can catch up.”

Our second source said Warner Bros. internal QA focused on bug-checking specifically at 720p resolutions. Most PC players with decent hardware expect to run games at 1080p or higher. If Warner Bros. was using 720p at as a benchmark, that helps explain the large performance gap.

One unexpected problem? The game’s secretive story. Rocksteady was deeply afraid of plot revelations being leaked ahead of release, said the same source, so traditional PC testing firms that are used to stress test games on different hardware configurations—one of the PC’s biggest hurdles—were avoided. From what I’m told, this is not an uncommon practice for major video games with story-heavy elements.

The PC is a complicated platform, but Warner Bros. has a troubled recent history when it comes to the PC, one that suggests the platform is not always a priority for the company.

When Batman: Arkham Origins shipped in October 2013, the PC version was praised for looking better than its console counterparts, but reviewers had to hold back. PC Invasion, for example, knocked the game down to a 5/10, largely due to the game-breaking glitches:

“Let’s see. One of the Enigma Towers (which unlock fast-travel points and are fairly essential to one of the major subquests in the single-player game) is actually impossible to complete on PC. I got stuck on two smaller subquests because the game wouldn’t let me interrogate the people I needed to interrogate. I had to restart one section of the critical story path twice – first because a bug prevented me from opening a door, and then because a bug prevented me from getting off a zipline. I had to restart another subquest when the event that was supposed to finish it didn’t trigger. Another subquest broke because I restarted it, forcing me to quit out and load from the start of the section. And the multiplayer? Well, that hard locked for me every two or three rounds, and the game reset my progression – remove all of my unlocks, weapons, and abilities – every time I restarted it. I’ve pretty much given up on it now.”

In the case of Arkham Origins, however, the PC version wasn’t alone. Console players were dealing with all sorts of bugs, too. Frankly, the game was a total mess for a little while there.

At one point, Warner Bros. issued a public statement that it would not be fixing anything but progression glitches, instead focusing on the game’s downloadable content. Take a quick look at the ensuing thread on the game’s official message boards to see how that news went over.

Some egregious glitches were never addressed on the PC, though helpful players on Steam continue to work with frustrated fans hoping to keep playing. One person will actually take a look at your save file and hack you out of a glitched room.

1321561772261975588.gif


Warner Bros.’ next major PC release was Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor in September 2014, but thanks to developer Monolith having worked extensively with the PC platform in the past, the port came out excellent. There was a brief scare over the PC version, as Warner Bros. declined to send out review code to most outlets, but it turned out okay. Prior to release, the developers said “the PC was one of our primary development versions” in an AMA conversation on reddit.

Only a few months later, Warner Bros. helped Techland ship Dying Light. Like Monolith, Techland has deep PC roots—it only started releasing console games with Call of Juarez in 2006. While the PC version of Dying Light was hardly glitch-free (nothing is!) it ran well on people’s hardware. It was clear Techland made it a priority.

Starting to notice a pattern?

Mortal Kombat fans didn’t have it as good with Mortal Kombat X, though. Released back in April, the PC version has led to nothing but grumbling. It launched with a bizarre approach to pre-loading, in which only part of the game was downloaded ahead of release, while the rest was downloaded after the game was booted up for the first time. This meant waiting hours to pull tons of data, including the game’s story. This was eventually changed, allowing folks to download the whole game at once, but it turned an exciting launch day into an aggravating one.


That’s to say nothing of underwhelming performance, unreliable netcode, and the introduction of new and frustrating bugs with every patch. One Steam thread is devoted to monitoring all the known glitches, ranging from ongoing crashes to being unable to unlock bonuses tied to the Android version of the mobile game. Another thread outlines a way to force Mortal Kombat Xon PC to use all the cores on a computer’s CPU, drastically improving performance for many users.

None of that should be the job of the player.

High Voltage Software was tasked with the PC version of Mortal Kombat X, and was apparently overwhelmed by the project.

“They bit off way more than they could chew and were generally understaffed and pushed their guys really hard,” said one source with knowledge of the game.

Nearly all references to Mortal Kombat X have been scrubbed from High Voltage Software’s Facebook page in the past few weeks. If you want to read their previous statements about the port, written around the time it was incurring the wrath of PC owners, they no longer exist. The company’s Twitter links point to pages since deleted.

“It’s usually an external studio that gets hired to do the PC version,” the source continued. “A lot of these ‘port houses’ tend to over-promise and under-bid to get the job. I think the way port-houses work is a pretty under-exposed part of the industry. They do the dirty work for AAA studios, sometimes with the goal of funding their own original game. A lot of times, they can really struggle to break out.”

And this brings us back to Arkham Knight, which was released on the PC and pulled down from various storefronts in less than a week. What went wrong?

During Arkham Knight’s development, two sources told me Rocksteady Games was having a tough time getting performance up to snuff.

When the game was shown to press at the Game Developers Conference in 2014, it was freezing and hitching all over the place. It’s unclear which version of the game was being shown to press, but it underscored the technical hurdles facing the game behind-the-scenes.

The game had originally been scheduled for release in October 2014, but was delayed because “it couldn’t be done in the time we had,” according to the developer.

Here’s what Kotaku editor Stephen Totilo wrote when the game was pushed back:

We at Kotaku first saw Arkham Knight running in March. The game is set in a big open-world swath of Gotham City. The game’s creators, playing on a PC build, appeared to be able to glide and drive through large sections of it at will. There were framerate hitches, which is common in unfinished games. Those seemed to be getting resolved when we saw the game again in May. But Rocksteady apparently needs more time.

Eight months later, the game finally shipped, but it feels like the proper PC version is still a ways off.

There’s a pattern with Warner Bros.’ approach to the PC, but one hardly exclusive to the publisher of Arkham Knight. When the PC is made a core development platform by the people crafting the other versions, those versions have turned out much better. When the PC version is handed to another developer who’s unfamiliar with the code, it’s turned out much worse. That’s not to say great ports can’t be handled by external developers, but the process requires additional care.

Mistakes happen, obviously, and no game is perfect or bug-free—they’re just too complicated.But the video game industry has a poor record of shipping broken games lately, and Arkham Knight on PC is simply the latest piece of evidence. Sure, sales have been halted for the time being, but that doesn’t excuse Warner Bros.’ decision to sell this game for $60 in the first place.
 

Cyberarmy

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Of course they were aware of the situtation, they just didn't care till Steam refunds buttraped them in a day.
Origins was a buggy mess too and they said that they were releasing DLCs first instead of patches. Now they had to suspend the sales. A bit of justice at last I say.
 

Mangoose

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Of course they were aware of the situtation, they just didn't care till Steam refunds buttraped them in a day.
Origins was a buggy mess too and they said that they were releasing DLCs first instead of patches. Now they had to suspend the sales. A bit of justice at last I say.
Ah yes it was Origins that had a game-stopping bug. I luckily avoided it (???).

That somehow reminds me of Gothic 3 though :lol:
 
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The AO bug that I remember my brother getting was that batman wouldn't get inside a vent so you couldn't progress the story
 
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The AO bug that I remember my brother getting was that batman wouldn't get inside a vent so you couldn't progress the story

Been playing Origins now and I have got that bug... twice. Always went away after restarting the game fortunately. Though on top of that I have gotten batman doing weird cartwheels when gliding thus making it impossible, informants not being selectable for interrogation, some enemies bugging out and not attacking, weird frame rate lag and some others that I don't even remember anymore. The game is a fucking mess.
It has not crashed once though, which is nice. I had shitty experience in City where I got corrupted save games when it would crash when saving. Had to periodically backup my saves while playing because of that.

Though thinking that Origins was worse than it was now and seemingly Arkham Knight is even worse than that? Holy shitting balls batman, that's crazy.

Did they ever fix Origins?

They taped it to hold barely together.
 

Catfish

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The AO bug that I remember my brother getting was that batman wouldn't get inside a vent so you couldn't progress the story

Been playing Origins now and I have got that bug... twice. Always went away after restarting the game fortunately. Though on top of that I have gotten batman doing weird cartwheels when gliding thus making it impossible, informants not being selectable for interrogation, some enemies bugging out and not attacking, weird frame rate lag and some others that I don't even remember anymore. The game is a fucking mess.
It has not crashed once though, which is nice. I had shitty experience in City where I got corrupted save games when it would crash when saving. Had to periodically backup my saves while playing because of that.

Though thinking that Origins was worse than it was now and seemingly Arkham Knight is even worse than that? Holy shitting balls batman, that's crazy.

Did they ever fix Origins?

They taped it to hold barely together.

I replayed it and city like three weeks ago, to warm up for AN and almost rage quit origins because of a bug at the start of the steam version - the one with croc flickering and becoming invisible during the boss fight. That, plus the hilarious loop-de-loop flying bug and other minor hitches really gave me hope rocksteady would triple their QA efforts as a point of pride :)
 

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Well, it's pretty clear that Steam refunds played a major part in forcing WB to take a step back on the matter. Are you guys ready to swear fealty to Lord Gaben now?



(thank god I waited to see the release reaction before opening my wallet. NEVER PREORDER!!!)
 

Akasen

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I would sooner believe this forum to pledge fealty to Gaben when he retroactively announces:

"Many years ago, there was a great development studio blah blah blah Black Isle blah blah blah hired all of them blah blah blah bought and gave them the rights to Fallout blah blah blah Fallout 3 is in the works. Here's a gameplay demo."
 

Mangoose

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I don't know how I'm so lucky to avoid those AO and AC bugs you guys mentioned. But yeah it was that vent in AO that was game-stopping. Except I managed to avoid it somehow.

See, you guys need to pray to Nuffle more: he rewards.

Arkham Knight has severe problems on PC, which appear to derive from a sub-optimal approach to memory management. On console, developers have 5GB of memory that can be used at will for game and graphics. On PC, memory is split - divided between system RAM and your GPU's VRAM. The evidence suggests that the game struggles to effectively stream fast enough from one pool of RAM to the other, and clearly struggles with graphics cards with 2GB of memory or lower (spectacularly so when it comes to certain AMD cards, as you'll see later)
Pretty much.

Though players have bypassed the Vsync issue by just playing in borderless.


Edit: Maybe I didn't get to do cartwheels because I turned off Physx or something. I'm jealous though :(
 

Mangoose

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Origins was a buggy mess too and they said that they were releasing DLCs first instead of patches.

Did they ever fix Origins?
Yeah they fixed that game-stopping vent bug. I dunno what else was buggy though, like I said I was lucky. The annoying thing with AO was actually part of gameplay design: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3196217

Also there was this terrible hotel level that felt like an endless linear corridor.

The only bug I've had with the Arkham games so far is verifying files deleting my entire Arkham Knight directory :lol: I guess that's karma :|
 

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Maybe this fiasco will get people to reconsider pre-orders




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