Batman: Arkham Knight

[Mangoose]

I wonder why they're so much higher than AC's requirements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Arkham_Knight:

Rocksteady decided early on in development to make Arkham Knight only for the then-upcoming next-generation of consoles, which was considered to allow them to focus on using the system resources to their fullest without reining in their ideas to accommodate the older generation systems.[38] The game allows for up to five times the number of on-screen enemies as were possible in Arkham City, and riots can feature up to fifty on-screen enemies interacting with the environment to smash items, and spray graffiti.[39][17] The technical changes also allowed for cutscenes to be rendered in real time in the game engine, where previous installments had used pre-rendered videos to compensate.[5] Describing the scale of difference between Arkham Knight and earlier games, lead character artist Albert Feliu said that a single character model in Arkham Knight could contain the same amount of polygons used to render the entirety of Arkham Asylum‍ 's environment. Arkham Knight is the first in the series to use the Apex physics simulation engine to have items like cloth, such as Batman's cape, react realistically to movement or wind.[40] Warner Bros. supported Rocksteady's concept for the game, but both parties felt that three years was too long to wait between games, so Warner Bros. Games Montréal was tasked with creating the prequel, Arkham Origins, to fill the gap.[38]

Last two lines explain why Arkham Origins was created.

I don't really give a shit 5x onscreen enemies though. It's already ridiculous enough, albeit gameplay enjoyment hasn't really been affected so far by any change in henchmen number. On the other hand a lot of it is because Arkham City introduced more special enemies you can't attack head-on. I'd rather have more of those than just hordes of basics...

 

[Mangoose]

I've been critical of the combat in the past, but that's because I'm not into long combos in any game and like to have precise control over whether a kick or punch is thrown. But man, after you spend some time playing other western-made AAA offerings, this shit is like playing Street Fighter compared to everyone else's Pit Fighter.

A lot of it is because you can't just rely on just spamming attack and counter (unless you really like that tedium). Special combo takedowns and gadgets are really important. I already knew this, but replaying the game last week with zero armor upgrades made all that even more apparent. I also learned to attack lone enemies a lot to avoid getting hit mid-attack if I mistime a counter. Used the special combo bat-stun to isolate enemies, too.

I actually used that like a real "combo-string" against Mr. Axe Man. Bat Stun to disable all the henchmen while pummeling Mr. Axe Man, building enough combo to Bat Stun again. A popamole version of inescapable fighting game combos.

I still don't use the Weapon Break combo but mainly because it's too hard for me to press those two buttons simultaneously lol.

I mean I still prefer a Devil May Cry-esque or M&B-esque system, but Arkham is very very refined popamole and it works.

I guess the problem all along has not been that popamole is too easy/shallow/dumb. It's that 99% of it is objectively shittily made.

Yup. IMO any system, even if thought dumb or "popamole," can be developed with good complementary mechanics that make it still have challenging gameplay.

 

[uaciaut]

Yo i've never played any of the game in the franchise and they're on sale now, which one should i try, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City or Origins?

 

[Jozoz]

All of them except Origins. Start with Asylum.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

All of them except Origins. Start with Asylum.

What's wrong with origins. Gotham seems cool.

 

[Martius]

Probably some bugs thanks to which people couldn't progress in game. WB in answer to fixing that just said something like "sorry, but we have some dlc to finish up!". I think Asylum is best place to start. City is typical sequel, just with open world and Origins is more of a same if you wont be tired of this series formula.

 

[Mangoose]

All of them except Origins. Start with Asylum.

What's wrong with origins. Gotham seems cool.

Probably some bugs thanks to which people couldn't progress in game. WB in answer to fixing that just said something like "sorry, but we have some dlc to finish up!". I think Asylum is best place to start. City is typical sequel, just with open world and Origins is more of a same if you wont be tired of this series formula.

The combat options got unbalanced because (looking up now) you can't cancel your own attack to counter. Now, before you say this is more challenging... It's not, because countering is not hard to do. You just rely too much on countering rather than balancing attacking, countering, gadgets, dodging, stunning, etc. So attacking is less easy, but really you have less to think about, instead just picking the over-optimal tactic of countering.

Yo i've never played any of the game in the franchise and they're on sale now, which one should i try, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City or Origins?

As for Asylum vs. City... If you only have time for one, here is the main difference:

Asylum completely focused on small area combat and exploration - and thus specific encounters and rooms are better than in City. Another way to put it Asylum like a Metroidvania (as many others posters say) and it does have a few puzzles.

City is more-so a collection of sandbox and in-building combat/stealth encounters. Very little, if any, puzzle/adventure areas. However, I can almost say City has better combat because there are a lot more gadgets, better balanced and varied boss fights, and in general better balance. And the sandbox encounters are not at all easy.

And play on Hard in both games, please.

 

[Havoc]

The Beyond suit is beyond retarded and nothing like Batman Beyond.

The Dark Knight suit looks exactly like it should. Checkout the comics or the movie version of it.

 

[Jick Magger]

The Dark Knight suit looks exactly like what'd happen if you tried to make a realistic version of Batman's look in TDKR, while keeping the bodily proportions exactly the same. i.e. a morbidly obese old man.

 

[Duraframe300]

Played through Arkham Asylum again after rebuying it on steam. The last time was 6 years ago on release.

It... was a lot easier than I remembered. And I played originally on normal. Only real trouble I had was with Poison Ivy and the two titan fight just before joker.

Stuff, like killer croc's lair is no trouble at all when you know what you are doing. I remember being nervewrecked when I originally played through it because of how suddenly he appeared.

 

[Eyestabber]

Man, I was SO PISSED when I read that they were ditching Rocksteady for the Origins game. I'm glad they came to their senses now. Fuck WB for punishing a dev that released THE BEST Batman games to date. Rocksteady 4life .

 

[Duraframe300]

Man, I was SO PISSED when I read that they were ditching Rocksteady for the Origins game. I'm glad they came to their senses now. Fuck WB for punishing a dev that released THE BEST Batman games to date. Rocksteady 4life .

?

WB never gave up on Rocksteady. They just needed the game to fill out space. If anything they punished the origins developers since they probably had to make the game on a lower budget.

 

[Eyestabber]

Man, I was SO PISSED when I read that they were ditching Rocksteady for the Origins game. I'm glad they came to their senses now. Fuck WB for punishing a dev that released THE BEST Batman games to date. Rocksteady 4life .

?

WB never gave up on Rocksteady. They just needed the game to fill out space. If anything they punished the origins developers since they probably had to make the game on a lower budget.

That's good to know. From what I've learned so far, it looks like we will have Scarecrow as our main villain and no joker. Gameplay looks the same + Batmobile. If they don't fuck up either of those, this game is going to be great.

 

[Mangoose]

Played through Arkham Asylum again after rebuying it on steam. The last time was 6 years ago on release.

It... was a lot easier than I remembered. And I played originally on normal. Only real trouble I had was with Poison Ivy and the two titan fight just before joker.

Stuff, like killer croc's lair is no trouble at all when you know what you are doing. I remember being nervewrecked when I originally played through it because of how suddenly he appeared.

Fuck

Bane

 

[Jozoz]

Fuck all the boss fights. They all sucked in Asylum. The Scarecrow parts were cool, but I'm not sure they qualify as boss fights.

Mr. Freeze in City was an awesome boss fight though.

 

[CyberP]

My prediction: If the game is on par with Arkham City, I will love it if a Batman fanboy. If one is not a fanboy, but likes this still of game, and it is still on par, I believe they will enjoy it.

If you enjoy the Arkham Asylum Metroidvania-type, more power to you. I have no problems with that type of gameplay myself - it just needed a lot more polish on the boss battles instead of copies of fucking Bane fights.

I know everybody dislikes the Assassin's Creed type of "spam counter and win", but the main thing about the Arkham games is that you can't really do that - if you set it to hard, and don't put yourself through the tedium of "counter counter counter counter counter" which I will admit will work. TBH countering is a shitload harder than AC because of enemies with blades, enemies with guns, enemies with electrical weapons, and enemies with

Note I am not saying it's on par with, say, Dork Souls, Jedi Outcast, Severance. Nor can I say it's not on par. It's a lot of apples and oranges... Arkham is a lot more arcadey.

Now if you bring in DMC then I will kow-tow in obesience.

However the other thing a like about Arkham is the stealth part. Which, no, is not at all as good as Theif and whatnot, and no bias here because I love the way the Hitman series handles stealth.

All excuses for popamole garbage. The popamole is strong in this one and the blind praise is some real decline. It isn't just the combat that is bad either. Codexian double standards.

 

[Mangoose]

My prediction: If the game is on par with Arkham City, I will love it if a Batman fanboy. If one is not a fanboy, but likes this still of game, and it is still on par, I believe they will enjoy it.

If you enjoy the Arkham Asylum Metroidvania-type, more power to you. I have no problems with that type of gameplay myself - it just needed a lot more polish on the boss battles instead of copies of fucking Bane fights.

I know everybody dislikes the Assassin's Creed type of "spam counter and win", but the main thing about the Arkham games is that you can't really do that - if you set it to hard, and don't put yourself through the tedium of "counter counter counter counter counter" which I will admit will work. TBH countering is a shitload harder than AC because of enemies with blades, enemies with guns, enemies with electrical weapons, and enemies with

Note I am not saying it's on par with, say, Dork Souls, Jedi Outcast, Severance. Nor can I say it's not on par. It's a lot of apples and oranges... Arkham is a lot more arcadey.

Now if you bring in DMC then I will kow-tow in obesience.

However the other thing a like about Arkham is the stealth part. Which, no, is not at all as good as Theif and whatnot, and no bias here because I love the way the Hitman series handles stealth.

All excuses for popamole garbage. The popamole is strong in this one and the blind praise is some real decline. It isn't just the combat that is bad either. Codexian double standards.

>Deus Ex
>good combat

 

[Mangoose]

Wait, I never said Arkham isn't popamole. It's refined popamole.

So I do agree, popamole is strong in this one, yes.

 

[Eyestabber]

All excuses for popamole garbage. The popamole is strong in this one and the blind praise is some real decline. It isn't just the combat that is bad either. Codexian double standards.

This is NOT an RPG, this thread is inside "General Gaming", NOT RPG-related, therefore fuck off, ye angry cunt.

FFs, are there people on the Codex REALLY willing to pretend that the Adventure genre was EVER chock-full of games?

"hurr durr, Atari's Aventure was the pinnacle of adventuring game, everything that came after that was just dumbing down for retaaaaaaaaards. Look at me, I'm an edgy hipster, someone please say I'm cool. Please? Pretty please?"

EDIT: Also, name a better Batman game than Rocksteady's Arkham series, or GTFO.

 

[Mangoose]

All excuses for popamole garbage. The popamole is strong in this one and the blind praise is some real decline. It isn't just the combat that is bad either. Codexian double standards.

This is NOT an RPG, this thread is inside "General Gaming", NOT RPG-related, therefore fuck off, ye angry cunt.

FFs, are there people on the Codex REALLY willing to pretend that the Adventure genre was EVER chock-full of games?

"hurr durr, Atari's Aventure was the pinnacle of adventuring game, everything that came after that was just dumbing down for retaaaaaaaaards. Look at me, I'm an edgy hipster, someone please say I'm cool. Please? Pretty please?"

EDIT: Also, name a better Batman game than Rocksteady's Arkham series, or GTFO.

Well I will admit there are better melee action games. Jedi Outcast. Severance. Ninja Gaiden. Devil May Cry. God Hand.. maybe. But that's about it, really.

Though I take back that Dark Souls is a good action game... It's definitely a good game, but more-so a game about caution, pre-battle equipment choice, strategy, a bit RPG.

I also dunno if I'd consider Arkham to be much of an adventure game... And if you do think so, it's not that good.

I'm not sure what games you'd compare to Arkham "Predator" gameplay though. Kinda it's own arcadey "assassination"-esque "stealth" gameplay.

Edit: Plus as I said, I subjectively like it because it's a Batman game, same as Eyestabber's. No disagreement there, and I readily admit I enjoy a popamole game.

CyberP, is playing a popamole game just for entertainment too disagreeable to your autist tastes? If so, it's quite ironic you praise Doom's challenge when you could be playing Quake 3 multiplayer. The popamole table has turned.

 

[Eyestabber]

No just that man, but they also abstained from breaking Batman's "no kill" rule, despite the fact that it would probably please the peasantry in some way. Also, they used all batman characters in a pretty lore-friendly fashion, quite enjoyable to behold. If the game was released as a comic book it would probably manage to stand toe-to-toe with the "real" Batman comic books.

And Dark Souls is action/adventure. Lots of games from that genre are about caution (pitfall?).

 

[CyberP]

"it's quite ironic you praise Doom's challenge when you could be playing Quake 3 multiplayer"

Challenge isn't the be-all-end all, though it is very important. Arena shooting gets repetitive fast and lacks the elements (and challenges) unique to SP: puzzles, general variety, secret areas, general navigation in sprawling locations etc. Hence why I'd rather play Doom than Q3 arena, the latter of which is closer to popamole because of the sheer simplicity and repetition.

"FFs, are there people on the Codex REALLY willing to pretend that the Adventure genre was EVER chock-full of games?"

There's a standard one must adhere to. Mongoose presented a few examples of good games of this type. It boils down to this: If you're going to include combat, puzzles, exploration and platforming, make them engaging for fuck sake. That there has never been a good Batman game (and still isn't) is irrelevant.

I will say no more on the matter, but I'm witnessing decline-enabling behavior in this thread is all.

 

[Mangoose]

"it's quite ironic you praise Doom's challenge when you could be playing Quake 3 multiplayer"

Challenge isn't the be-all-end all, though it is very important. Arena shooting gets repetitive fast and lacks the elements (and challenges) unique to SP: puzzles, general variety, secret areas, general navigation in sprawling locations etc. Hence why I'd rather play Doom than Q3 arena, the latter of which is closer to popamole because of the sheer simplicity and repetition.

(Good) Arena shooting doesn't get repetitive because you're playing against real people who can outsmart and outplay you.

You know what's repetitive? AI enemies. Period. (Incidental exception is that Quake 3 bots kick my fucking ass)

And I sure as hell don't play action games for puzzles, secret areas, or navigation. That would be adventure - not to mention that Doom is popamole adventure compared to real adventure games.

If you're going to include combat, puzzles, exploration and platforming, make them engaging for fuck sake.

Don't know what you're talking about. Arkham is 90% just combat and stealth-killing. The other 10% is just random challenges for people who are bored or are obsessive 100% completionists.

That's why I say that "if you consider these games to be adventure games, they're not that good."

- Because they're not adventure games.

 

[Metro]

Arkham games are great because they aren't your traditional action games where the protagonist is grossly overpowered. Sure you get to a point where Batman can take on half a dozen thugs at once but (assuming you play on decent difficulty settings) you can't do that without a bit of pre-planning, snares, cc's, gadgets, etc. That is, you can't just dive into a pile and hit A for awesome or you'll die in fairly short order.

 

[Jozoz]

The Arkham series managed to make popamole fun. It's not particularly difficult even on hard, but it's just great fun to build combos and use special takedowns. It's really great they have the challenge maps to take it to the next level.