Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear - Gameplay and Mechanics Thread (NO political crap!)

[Metal Hurlant]

The logic escapes me.

Spoiler

I know she wanted to get her uncle and people's loved ones out of Hell - that much I paid attention to. I think I spent too much time on side quests to follow the story fully. Okay, the crusade and raiding up and down the Sword Coast relates to getting more people to join as well as feeding the army with the raiding and she's eventually going to storm Hell with her army to get their loved ones out? If anything, she's going to be sending more people to die in Hell, dying in battle, to get people's loved ones out. That comes across as completely bonkers.

LOGIC. There isn't any.

 

[Delterius]

Oh, I think you missed one detail.

Spoiler

I spent the whole game convinced that Caelar was a dumb extremist character. She and the Crusade rejected the Gods and desired to break with the order of things by invading Hell and saving the souls of the damned. This is stupid in more ways than one. It was particularly grating how she would keep talking about the righteousness of their cause while ignoring the (admittedly very well estabilished) damage she wrought across the Sword Coast.

What the ending does is reveal that Caelar was a villain who cared for nobody other than her uncle. Her underlings believed that storming Hell was possible, she didn't. Caelar did not intend to save anyone's soul other than Aun's. Suddenly the whole thing, from her PoV, become much more possible.

It is somewhat hard to swallow such a contradictory character as Caelar as her righteousness is not a facade. It could be pride, despair or guilt that drives her to it but she could be considered an uncommon face of fallen paladins (though I don't know her actual class).

The real plot hole in the ending is this: if Belhifet was behind it all, there should have been an army behind the portal the likes of which a party of 30 or so mid level characters could not cut through.

 

[Athelas]

Spoiler

I spent the whole game convinced that Caelar was a dumb extremist character. She and the Crusade rejected the Gods and desired to break with the order of things by invading Hell and saving the souls of the damned. This is stupid in more ways than one.

Sounds familiar...

Spoiler

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Delterius I was going to point out that plot hole and I'm glad you raised it. There was hardly anyone waiting on the other side.

 

[AMG]

Spoiler

Yeah Caelar is essentially a horrible person. Like the most horrible person ever. Sarevok at least wanted to orchestrate a glorious slaughter so he can become a god. She lead countless people to their deaths and driven even more from their homes just to free her fucking uncle, undermining his heroic sacrifice in the process. What the fuck. It's not like he was being raped by some cock demons. Belhifet was such a bro he just kept him in a cage, probably discussed his plans of conquering Icewind Dale with him (I assume this game happens before, since he says it was forever since he walked the Prime).
What makes the whole thing even funnier is that the whole crusade and raising an army wasn't even needed. At the end of the day the player and his party free Caelar's uncle basically on their own . So all she had to do was ask him nicely to solve her problems, like he did for countless other people before.

Also, the crusade and siege was pointless filler. It is completely unreleted to anything in original games and linking of BG1 and 2 happens in the last 15 minutes and is so dumb I almost turned to into a Slayer while watching it.
It also creates plotholes. Like if CHARNAME is a hero of Baldur's Gate and Dragonspear, you would assume he was kinda famous. In fact, it it flat out shown that half of the BG city adores him. Being accused of murder doesn't make everybody stop talking about him, it makes him even more famous/infamous. Meanwhile in BG2 in Amn, which is a neighbouring nation, nobody recognizes you and you can't tell anyone how famous you are. This wasn't a problem before, because BG2 intro doesn't state that you were recognized as some public hero. In fact, it implies otherwise.

Also I loled about that "We decided to get rid of you quietly so get out". That's not how you get rid of somebody quietly. The public is gonna question wtf happened with that guy. And if you say he escaped, they will be angry about letting out a potential monster into the wild. Who says he won't come back to BG to enact his vengeance? Getting rid of somebody quietly is an euphemism for murdering them in thier sleep.

 

[Delterius]

Spoiler

Also I loled about that "We decided to get rid of you quietly so get out". That's not how you get rid of somebody quietly. The public is gonna question wtf happened with that guy. And if you say he escaped, they will be angry about letting out a potential monster into the wild. Who says he won't come back to BG to enact his vengeance? Getting rid of somebody quietly is an euphemism for murdering them in thier sleep.

I am sorry but what are you referring to?

 

[AMG]

Spoiler

In my game at the end, the flaming fist just let me go, and escorted me through some tunnels outside BG. Maybe it is actual CnC? Depending on what you say during that "trial"? How did your game end?

 

[Roguey]

AMG Icewind Dale takes place in 1281 DR, Baldur's Gate in 1368.

 

[AMG]

Well, I guess 80 years in an eternity for some people . Are FR years the same length as ours?

 

[Delterius]

Spoiler

In my game at the end, the flaming fist just let me go, and escorted me through some tunnels outside BG. Maybe it is actual CnC? Depending on what you say during that "trial"? How did your game end?

Holy shit.

Spoiler

My game ended with Imoen arranging for my escape and meeting me outside with the canon party from BG2.

STOP THE PRESSES THIS MERITS INVESTIGATION

 

[AMG]

Spoiler

Yeah, that's how I assumed it would go down and was surprised when they just let me go on their flimsy logic. My theory is that it depends on what you say in your defence before they throw you into a prison. I didn't poison crusader's food and cured ill soldiers in warcamp, so I could use these in my defence.

 

[Delterius]

Spoiler

Yeah, but did you end up meeting with Khalid, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Imoen in the end? If the Flaming Fist just let you go for being a good boy, how do they justify the canon party in BG2?

 

[AMG]

Spoiler

Yes, you meet up with them at the end. The CnC is purely cosmetic of course. Was Minsc missing for you too? They couldn't even get the very end to appear properly .
There is also some container in the tunnels that required a key I didn't have. I wonder what was there.

Edit:

Spoiler

Yep, reloaded a save and didn't say anything during "trial", Imoen to the rescue.
Well, I have to admit, it is a nice touch.
Also noticed another plot hole. Viconia flat out leaves you when, you get framed for killing Skie. Yet I assume, she doesn't mention anything in BG2. These people really didn't think this through.

Also container mystery solved. You get the key during sewer segment in the Imoen ending. If you get released, that segment gets skipped. There were just some shitty potions in there. I thought it was some pantaloons tier secret.

 

[ArchAngel]

Spoiler

Damn I need to finish the game so I can also join your guys in these spoiler wars.

 

[Delterius]

Spoiler

Yep, reloaded a save and didn't say anything during "trial", Imoen to the rescue.
Well, I have to admit, it is a nice touch.
Also noticed another plot hole. Viconia flat out leaves you when, you get framed for killing Skie. Yet I assume, she doesn't mention anything in BG2. These people really didn't think this through.

Also container mystery solved. You get the key during sewer segment in the Imoen ending. If you get released, that segment gets skipped. There were just some shitty potions in there. I thought it was some pantaloons tier secret.

Spoiler

I wonder if you can still ask Eldoth about Skie in BG2....

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Yes, there is different endings. I did something similar to AMG. I reloaded to see if there was more than one ending.

Spoiler

Don't incriminate yourself. Just say all the good stuff at the trial.

This is the other dialogue option where they release you 'quietly'.

 

[Rivmusique]

Screwed around a little with the ending bit:

Spoiler

Killed all the people with a longbow before getting close enough for her to start this conversation, she still acts like they're there, but they don't deliver their lines. Tried killing her, she appears to go invincible at 1HP, even in the next scene where you get like 5 seconds to control your party before the kidnapping. If they died during the game, do they disappear from this final scene?

This was in my screenshot folder, I'd forgotten that I had taken it:

Spoiler

Excellent foreshadowing.

 

[Lilura]

Siege of Dragonspear Walkthrough Part IV

The dungeon covered in this post was actually pretty ok and I quite enjoyed it (Dumathoin Dwarves quest). Who agrees?

 

[Delterius]

I do. The Dumathoin Dwarves dungeon is one of my favorite areas. The trash encounters are all rather varied so that a no-rest run needs to deal with lots of different status effects and I liked that those resistant archers fired at you from a locked room.

 

[Lilura]

Indeed, the undead mobs were varied enough to keep things interesting (I play on Core rules).

A few other things:

-The silver scepter and the scrying pool was a nice hack on The Mirror of Galadriel. It really surprised me, actually: three fully voiced cutscenes just come out of nowhere, during some optional quest to slay a Lich.
-Two solutions to it: ally with dwarf-lich or Dumathoin (token C&C but at least it's THERE).
-Dwarf-lich. I thought he was amusing in his avarice.
-Proper phylactery and it's found in a cache with decoys (BG2 did not have phylacteries, only IWD)
-The documentation (journals, notes etc) were fairly well written.
-There was a hint for the pillared puzzle in one of the tomes (wise sometimes think backwards).
-Subtle things like when you destroy a phylactery the gems and gold that constituted it were transferred to you.

I think you can tell by the way I wrote the walkthrough post that I enjoyed it more than the other Parts.

 

[Rivmusique]

This is also a hint:

Spoiler

 

[Lhynn]

Been trying to install mods like some npc pack and it has fucked my game. Any way around this other than just playing vanilla?

 

[ArchAngel]

Haha I had a cool moment yesterday. I found a big group of hobgoblins, looks like any other. So I open combat with one fireball from edge of vision and retreat to my group and wait for all of them to come.
Suddenly from darkness I see a fireball come and hit everyone! Haha, I didn't expect that. That has not happened to me in any bg so far.
Now I know how that feels like

 

[Reinhardt]

You should use cloudkill vs alive enemies. Some of them have oil and not afraid to throw it.

 

[ArchAngel]

You should use cloudkill vs alive enemies. Some of them have oil and not afraid to throw it.

Let them, I can take it like a man :D
And using Cloudkill means I need to rest after every battle but I don't do that.

Anyways, this AI is awesome. For a official game (not mods) this is best AI in a RTwP game yet.

I hope if they make a full game they also implement a challenging AI and encounters that will try to rape player characters