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Game News Avernum: Escape from the Pit Released

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by VentilatorOfDoom, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. VentilatorOfDoom RPG Codex Staff Patron

    VentilatorOfDoom
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    Tags: Avernum: Escape from the Pit; Spiderweb Software

    <p>The mac version of <strong>Avernum: Escape from the Pit</strong>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.avernum.com/avernum/" target="_blank">has been released</a>.</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <blockquote>
    <p>You have been banished to the underworld, never to see the light of day again.</p>
    <p>The surface is ruled by the cruel Emperor Hawthorne, master of the Empire. All of the known lands are subject to his brutal command. Everyone who speaks out, who misbehaves, who doesn&rsquo;t fit in is cast into the dark, volcanic pits of Avernum, far below the surface. There, you are expected to die, a victim of starvation, horrible monsters, or simple despair.</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>But not all of the Avernites have surrendered. With magic and steel, they are forging a new nation deep underground. You can join them and fight for safety. Or freedom. Or even, if you dare, revenge on the surface-worlders who tried to destroy you.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p><a href="http://www.avernum.com/avernum/downloadMac.html" target="_blank">Demo download.</a></p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
     
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  2. Humanity has risen! Arcane Patron Repressed Homosexual

    Humanity has risen!
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    So have the skills been dumbed down, yes or not? According to Vogel on an older blog post of his the user will have as much freedom and make at least as many choices as he did in Avernum, just not as much at the start. But it's true that you can see a skills tree in many screenshots, so how does that work out?
     
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  3. hydd Educated

    hydd
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    I'm quite excited for the iPad release in Q1 2012. About time we start seeing quality role playing games on the mobile devices.
     
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  4. Lightknight Scholar

    Lightknight
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    I think Q1 2012 is about time we kill all "mobile devices" owners and throw all their plastic junk in one big heap, pour down some gasoline, and fire it up.
     
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  5. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
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    It's kinda like the magic skills in Nethergate apparently, you can't have more points in a skill than in the one that is before it on the tree.
     
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  6. Hoaxmetal Arcane

    Hoaxmetal
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    :rage:
     
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  7. Virtual Vice Educated

    Virtual Vice
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    Dumbing down?? Rofl. I mean REALLY?


    The exile's only strength was the party member count. It also had a certain fun factor to the way combat went due to the simple engine but that was all. It was good at the time. Avernum did indeed constitute an instance of dumbing down, but it did so mostly by reducing the party member count, reducing the combat options had to do with removing redundant spells ( in a combat system that was already extremely tedious to say the least, even at high levels and also keeping in mind it had zero melee options). The obvious lack of quality, depth and the utter boredom of the combat system taken overall ( also in the case of the exiles, but much more noticeable in the first a Avernum series 1-3) associated with the kind of scale Avernum 1-3 had was a major flaw to say the least, everything else to like about it came up indeed as a “redeeming quality”, a funny expression.

    Secondly only a retard or someone who didn’t actually put any time into any of Vogel’s games they like to talk about would not see the major qualitative increase in area design, quest design and encounter design, not to mention writing, plot and character interaction from Avernum 4 onward. How they were better RPG’s.

    Avernum 6 ( and Avernum 5 although in a less well implemented fashion) was a breakthrough in terms of game quality in every respect, also much due to the introduction of actually good combat mechanics (or decent but if you call them only decent I wonder what you base yourself in for comparison in terms of Rpg’s with turn based combat, there are not many otherwise good Rpg games with a stellar record when it comes to combat to compare with), plus Avernum 6 maintained largely the best features of Vogel's character development, the freedom of saving and assigning skill points.
    Avadon was indeed a case of “dumbing down”, a catering to retards both in its difficulty level naming, and the way the skilltrees were structured to avoid major party weakness by poor point distribution, but how relevant is this?
    Anyways that is the one single point that is worth mentioning (although not as strongly from what I understand) against Avernum : Escape from the Pit. In short you will likely lose the old ( rather poor) traits, and get a more organic and varied system that prevents you from saving points to spend in the medium term, a negative sure, and what about the rest? Also a useful friendly tip, If you actually wish to even try Avernum: Escape from the pit and play it on normal difficulty ( for the elite---that is people with normal brain functioning) you need to pick “Hard” ( this is assuming the standard is equal to Avadon, which in hard is perfectly adequate….at least if you play it a bit longer than 6 hours). Give it a try sometime.


    The thing is with Avadon there was a significant refinement of the Avernum 6 combat system in terms of design and mechanics, oh sure it’s arguable if it is overall better as a combat system, but the obvious point is that Vogel is going to use those new resources to rework the combat system according to Avernum 6 standards.


    So now Vogel will return with all the resources available from that last project and Avernum 6 in terms of combat mechanics, encounter design, area design, all the special situations his later games included, his news standards in terms of writing and character interaction etc to remake Avernum 1, this while keeping the scale of the original titles, the overland map, the sandbox structure, and ( almost certainly) adding not only a couple of sidequests but also a crapload of new content, including the reworking of the content already in the original title , a reworking, which should be obvious for those who actually played his games and saw their evolution, that will amount to much more than a copy paste or replication of that content.

    But of course there is no interest at all in this cheap dumbed down remake, in this gaming universe so lacking in the eerrrr… “redeeming qualities” of the good old days of rpg gaming, like those outstanding qualities of say Ultima 7. Seriously ?

    What makes me laugh out loud as a person who appreciates “old school” rpg’s is posts by “Noobs” ( pardon couldn’t resist) with some kind of oldschool poseur syndrome saying things like: “oh noes. It’s going to be dumbed down from exile 1, or the original avernum 1, I won’t touch it!” or “ The MECHANICS WILL BE WORSE! It will lose whatever that was actually decent about them” ( usually without specifying what was so decent)… I can’t help but to wonder if most who talk shit ever touched any Vogel game or any good oldschool title long enough to even begin to appreciate any of them, even the more fashionable ones.


    In short typical codex fashionable oldschool poseur bullshit (which would be far less pathetic if it wasn’t taken so seriously) with the also usual touch of severe cognitive dissonance, sometimes a selective one at that… in one post is “sorry those graphics aren’t just acceptable anymore”, on the other “gawd why doesn’t he make decent graphics this time”, while on the other “ fuck that I will go back to playing Avernum 1 or exile 1”….the mental disturbance pattern goes on when it comes to evil AAA titles in a similar fashion but in another direction, same pattern for just about game feature or aspect. When arguments or clearness of reasoning fail, circle jerking and massive ad hominem sets in for the lulz and ego points.



    For fuck’s sake kids if you didn’t really like the “oldschool” or oldschool like games, and never managed to play them long enough to have an opinion just stfu, you aren’t going to the kill the indie industry ( that you obviously care so much about) and you can still credibly talk shit about the poorer sides of the evil big name developers, you will still be part of the “elite” with the taste you actually have, because there is no elite. And most of all you would avoid making yourselves look like hypocritical clueless clowns over and over again. And some fantasize about people relevant in the gaming industry, either indie or not, following the “discussions” and opinions on these forums and think they are sticking it to the man for the sake of better games in the future….for fucks sake wake the fuck up.


    :lol:
     
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  8. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    Having finished Avernums 1-3 I can safely say that Avernum 4 was not an improvement at all. Not because of the engine change etc., but because of the boring design! Endless trash combat...
     
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  9. Lightknight Scholar

    Lightknight
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    That about sums up Avernum 1-2. Playing 4 now and...its pretty damn hard all around. There are some annoying areas with fast respawning enemies, but thats about it. The summoned demon in mage castle, that undead spiral thing was testing my limits, encounters in areas with Vah bosses are pretty tough. You are playing some entirely different game, it seems.
     
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  10. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    It seems, I guess. In Avernums 1 and 2 I loved exploring the world. In 2 I liked the plot very much. In 4 I got fed up with combat around Honeycomb, I think. Maybe the level of bearability depends on party composition...
     
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  11. Mozgoëbstvo Learned

    Mozgoëbstvo
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    Virtual Vice, dude, you just threw a bunch of pearls in a sea of piss. I'm honestly moved.
    :lol:
     
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  12. AlaCarcuss Arbiter

    AlaCarcuss
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    Haha, yeah - good post. This guy's got the codex sized up pretty well. :salute:
     
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  13. betamin Learned

    betamin
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    Avernum 4 is like Geneforge 3, Vogel was trying to modify deeply his games and the best of it came out in Geneforge 4 / 5 and in Avernum 5 (I'm playing right now Avernum 6 so I can't give an oppinion but it has certainly refined things like melee options and interesting encounters)

    Vogel's games have ceirtanly inclined a lot (haven't played Avadon so maybe there's a drop in quality but every time he tries something new he needs time to improve), Geneforge 5 even had a Deus Ex like quality in respect to having different possible approaches depending on your skills and also lots of C&C.

    These games aren't for everybody and I enjoyed them the most by playing as a solo character, I guess I could have enjoyed playing them with a team but I would have to up the difficulty, you should never play on normal.
     
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  14. PorkaMorka Arcane

    PorkaMorka
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    VV is pretty much right, but I don't know if I agree with his conclusions.

    Exile was probably good for what it was, but nowadays it's really not a productive use of your time as standards have increased since then. Avernum 1-3 are basically boring banal shit, unless you enjoy mindless activities that just so happen to involve numbers going up.

    Avernum 4 was an attempt to incline the series, but it wasn't very successful, so a lot people don't really like that game either and there are a number of poorly designed and irritating mechanics. But the attempt at making things less mindless is definitely noticeable.

    Avernum 5 and 6 are basically the only games in the series which are still worth playing as Vogel finally put in a number of encounters where you need to think and use tactics, rather than just endless combats with trash mobs.

    So there really isn't anything wrong with remaking the games again, if they were going to be raised to the standard of Avernum 6.

    But Avernum 6 doesn't represent the current design philosophy of Spiderweb, Avadon does. Avadon is a Bioware game with Vogel production values. If that isn't boring banal shit I don't know what is.

    So I need to see some evidence that Vogel is reversing that design philosophy before I can become interested in his next game.
     
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  15. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    But now you don't have to sit at a desk to withdraw from society!
     
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  16. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    A4 sold buckets despite not being liked on the spiderweb forums. If you wan't a game that sold not so great and wasn't liked take Geneforge 3.
    Curious which encounters you are thinking of ?
     
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  17. Desmodus Rotundus Augur

    Desmodus Rotundus
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    I dislike avernum 5 because of it's damn linear, no backtrack bit of a world at the time mechanic, haven't played 4 but the earlyer ones especially exiles, had pretty much the whole world open from the start. Haven't tried 6 yet either.
     
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  18. Wunderpurps Educated

    Wunderpurps
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    Hey this writing style is incredibly familiar, I see it on your blog every week :lol:

    Maybe people just think your games fucking suck, Jeff. Yes they were shit before but they are even more shit now, and just because hipster faggot ipad douchebags buy them to play on the train to work doesn't mean they are anything but trash.

    That's a much simpler explanation than to think they are just pretending not to like them so one of the near females of the codex will give them a blowjob some day.

    PS Nice sparkle mouseovers on Avadon, I see you are the kind of guy who likes flash sites. Tasteful.
     
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  19. Angelo85 Liturgist

    Angelo85
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    Regarding the non linear games, from his Blog:

     
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  20. Vagiel Augur

    Vagiel
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    Man, you are a true bro, i so look up to you sticking it to the man and being so cool and edgy and all. Thank you for showing me the truth Wunderpurps, your thorough explanation made me realize how bad spiderweb games are. Can you please guide me a bit further and suggest to me a few new rpgs to play in order to fill the gap.
     
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  21. Wunderpurps Educated

    Wunderpurps
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    Yeah, I posted that to be cool, thanks for noticing. You are free to love his games to your heart's content but he is the consumate bullshitter always doing his best to put a spin on any criticism.

    No it's not a troll. No it's not to look cool. People, most people who try them probably, think his games are not that good and have gotten much worse.
     
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  22. circ Arcane

    circ
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    Uuugh. More Vogelcrap. I looked over the screenshots and it just looks like someone went crazy with cut and paste with the level editor, spewing shit all over. Dude. If the one guy who made KoTC can make a more interesting RPG without a shitload of clutter and nonsensical stuff that looks completely out of place in his first published game(?), then you need to check yourself after doing this shit for 20 years.

    Atleast the horrible ANIMU character faces are finally gone. Maybe in another 20 years it won't look like a bad roguelike shell.
     
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  23. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    I was finally motivated enough to try Avernum 6 recently and even though I'm not very far I'm already seeing a lot of improvements over the Exile series (except for the removal of the parry ability, damn it Jeff). I'm disappointed in everyone who told me try Exile first. So at least up until Avadon (haven't tried it; would be very surprised if it's actually worse than Exile) his games were not getting worse.
     
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  24. Elwro Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    The parry skill is there in Avernum 6 - buy 6 points of Defense first.
     
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  25. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    Yeah it's a skill, but not an ability. I want to be able to tell my fighters to hold their position and ready against an approach and I can't do that anymore. :(
     
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