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Armies of Exigo: FUN!

Sol Invictus

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I know. I know. I've said bad things about the beta demo. But that was the beta demo. The game's actually pretty damn good, and it's way better than that other trash EA recently developed and put out: Battle for Middle Earth - a game that doesn't measure up to the C&C franchise (well, except for Generals, which also sucks) or Rome: Total War (the game it tries to emulate in vain).

But I digress. What I wanted to talk about is how fun this game is. Really. I'd call it a successor to Warcraft 3, or if you didn't like Warcraft 3, then it's a successor to Starcraft. The developers of AOX (Armies of Exigo) even took a lot of input from Starcraft's developers (and Blizzard's former employees). I know, a lot of you don't much like the whole micro/macro/strategy stuff that features in Starcraft and Warcraft, so the game's probably not for you if you're not into that kind of game. I've always been more of a Total War series man myself, but I've room for games like these. I'd put Total Annihilation and Red Alert 2 in the same RTS category as AOX.

It's really well balanced and in that way, it beats the hell out of Dawn of War. That game would have been a pretty good 'successor' to the SC/WC games, if it had more than 1 short campaign and an actual balance between the races - oh, and actual modding capabilities. Enough about Dawn of War, though.

The game comes with 3 full campaigns (for the 3 races: Imperial, Beast and Fallen) sprawling over 36 missions. The game's biggest feature are the tunnels, which exist under the surface of every map. You can dig into them and use them to your advantage. Fortifying a tunnel would allow you to mount a good assault against an unsuspecting enemy above ground, for instance. As I recall, Earth 2150 had a similar feature, but it wasn't fully utilized. AOX is a game of counters, rather than brute force or rushing. A pikeman is going to kick a knight's ass, and a knight will kick a swordsman's ass, and a swordsman is going to kick a pikeman's ass. You get the picture. Of course it's a lot more complicated than that, but those are the basic concepts.

The game allows you to group a limited number (15) of units together, but what it has that other games doesn't have is the ability to create a Supergroup, which is a group comprising of various smaller groups. So you won't have difficulty creating a Main Attack Force (15 pikemen, 15 swordsmen) and placing them into a supergroup, and placing 15 Archers and 15 other support characters into another supergroup. It's just a lot better than having to micromanage a ton of individual groups.

AOX has a pretty flexible scenario editor comparable to the ones in WC3 and Starcraft. There's even a little Chess mission that plays very well (kicked my ass, too) within the game's "Custom" scenarios directory. You can even play that in multiplayer with somebody else.

Multiplayer's pretty good. It has support for 12 player games, and a variety of game modes including Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Team Melee and Chess. Heh, that's as almost good as Myth 2.

Overall, the game is very polished, and if I were one to judge RTS's, I'd call this the best one of the year - at least the best RTS of this 'sort'. You can't compare it to Rome: Total War. It'd be like comparing apples to oranges. It's a lot better than say, Kohan II, Axis and Allies, Dawn of War and the like - and even most RTS's of this sort for the years before it: except Total Annihilation, a game that will always hold a special place in my heart. TA had physics, ballistics and y-axis. I'm not sure if AOX has y-axis in terms of ballistics, but I doubt it.

It's developed by Black Hole Games and published by Electronic Arts (ugh). Electronic Arts has had absolutely no influence in the game's development. The only bit of EA you'll see is the game's matchup lobby.

Bottom line? It's a damn good replacement for Warcraft 3.
 

Sheriff05

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Exitium said:
I know. I know. I've said bad things about the beta demo. But that was the beta demo. The game's actually pretty damn good, and it's way better than that other trash EA recently developed and put out: Battle for Middle Earth - a game that doesn't measure up to the C&C franchise (well, except for Generals, which also sucks) or Rome: Total War (the game it tries to emulate in vain).
.


You're such a fucking nutcase Exitium, While AoX may very well be good- your typical trite blowoff of B4ME is laughable and reeks of "Rexism"

rex.ism
n.

psychiatric disorder of Exitium characterized by marked deficits in communication and social interaction, preoccupation with fantasy, language impairment, and abnormal behavior, such as repetitive acts and excessive attachment to certain computer games. It is usually associated with his need to find similar products inferior to the one seen as the object of his current obession. Bouts of Rexism are usually interspersed with demetia and occur daily.

I seriously doubt you spent more than 15 mins playing B4ME as it only been out since monday.. First of all, it blows C&C generals away ( TS is still better) And it's got way more strategy than the run of the mill RTS crap we've seen lately and it has campaigns you actually want to play for a change. It doesn't in anyway try to emulate R:TW , that's your snap judgement as both games have overland maps. R:TW is historical sim focusing on strategic depth while B4ME is a LotR's game, encompassing all that implies. They have about as much in common as HL2 and Bloodlines.
Anyway I'm sure you'll hate AoX in a few weeks anyway just like you grew to dislike R:TW and of course Bloodlines and whatever the hell else, after you rambled on for days talking about what great games they are. Point being, You're fickle crazy bitch and nobody looks to you for game recomendations. So I just don't know why you bother to post this shit. Fix your fucked up self.
 

Sol Invictus

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I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier in a much nicer, more civilized way. It's certainly understandable that this is what comprises the very epitome of the RPG Codex. Egos clash, and opinions collide. Arguments erupt and insults are thrown around liberally without a moment's hesitation.

Now, you might have your reservations about AoX due to my support for the game, but I'm here to clarify my dismay for B4ME. Granted, I don't actually dislike the B4ME for being 'crap', and I'm not saying that it is, but in contrast to RTS's like Warcraft 3, Starcraft, Tiberian Sun and AoX, it's certainly lacklustre. It might not be a bad game, just as Generals wasn't a bad game, it's certainly not much of a 'great' game, either - what with most reviews ranging between scores of 70% to the below 85%. What's that say about a game, especially one that's so heavily hyped by Electronic Arts and obviously one of those games that receives 'special treatment' from reviewers under the watchful eye of the aforementioned company? The game's got plenty of problems - major slowdowns in the large battle scenes, questionable AI, and most importantly a lack of innovation. It's also really as unattractive and undetailed as Generals was.

I've also never called Bloodlines a bad game, have I? I've only touched upon the 2nd half of the game and I regard the game, as a whole, as somewhat of a 'dissapointing' experience. I'd call a game mediocre even if half of it was really good (the subquests certainly are), if not unpolished. The combat laden areas (not including the bosses) really drag the game down into the pits.

As for Rome: Total War. Do I dislike it? Only if you're talking about vanilla Rome: Total War. Rome: Total War with the Rome: Total Realism (4.1) mod is just plain excellent, and I play it every day. They even fixed the AI, which was my only complaint about the game, if you will recall.

It's unarguable that I am fickle in my tastes, and some would even argue that I behave like a sociopath on occasion, but that's got nothing to do with B4ME's mediocrity as a supposed 'triple A' RTS title that's receiving a lot of undeserved attention when a good game like AoX goes completely ignored by stupid websites like GameSpy, who failed to even list it in their "Strategy Game of the Year Award" vote. They've put games like Evil Genius and Zoo Tycoon 2 in that list - even though neither of them are strategy games.
 

Whipporowill

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While aXo is a fun game, it gets frustratingly hard fast. I'm stuck on the third mission and have replayed it about 6 times (last time on easy) and can't seem to hold for 30 minutes. The closest I got was 15 seconds (on normal) so I guess that was just bad luck - but still, these types of missions don't generally occur until later in the game. The enemy has a lot more troop types than my 4 basic units types for one thing.
 

Sheriff05

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Exitium said:
I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier in a much nicer, more civilized way. It's certainly understandable that this is what comprises the very epitome of the RPG Codex. Egos clash, and opinions collide. Arguments erupt and insults are thrown around liberally without a moment's hesitation.

I appreciate the thought but there's no need when talking to me.
I "understand" you, I just need to slap you around once in awhile.

Now, you might have your reservations about AoX due to my support for the game, but I'm here to clarify my dismay for B4ME. Granted, I don't actually dislike the B4ME for being 'crap', and I'm not saying that it is, but in contrast to RTS's like Warcraft 3, Starcraft, Tiberian Sun and AoX, it's certainly lacklustre.

that's an opinion and I'll disagree (with the exception of TS) The blizzard games are clickfests, their strategy is limited to the players speed, while that's inherently true of RTS' games in general. Blizzards games depth are always overcome by who can build what the fastest, they quickly become an exercise in tedium for all but the most rabid blizzard fans.

. It might not be a bad game, just as Generals wasn't a bad game, it's certainly not much of a 'great' game, either - what with most reviews ranging between scores of 70% to the below 85%.

Now all of sudden it's time to start quoting reviews from all the asswipe gaming rags?
all the majors gave it in the 83-85% , granted I don't go "looking' for that many reviews.

The game's got plenty of problems - major slowdowns in the large battle scenes, questionable AI, and most importantly a lack of innovation. It's also really as unattractive and undetailed as Generals was.

This is were you lose it, like your many opinions of games I've challenged you about I am highly doubting you've played the game and are either getting these sound bites from a review or another second hand source. unattractive and undetailed?? WTF? are you talking about what RTS looks better? If you say W3 I know your either blind or just talking shit. AI on "hard" is difficult for all but the most experienced, calling it "questionable" is bullshit. Slowdowns are bound to happen, but I havent seen any worth mentioning yet and I am only on a 2ghz and I've had 500 units on screenthere is a slight bump whent he isengard mine goes off as it rattles the whole screen.Finally Innovation? I like the resource handling, the hero's, the upgrades and powers all seem handled differently the standard RTS I've played..if you want to elaborate on that I'd listen. The honest critique of the game is interface takes some getting used to and isn't the best for a RTS, and pathfinding need tweaking and more formations are a must.

Re: Bloodline, R:TW

Your incesant backpeddaling, after your incesant intiial glowing praise are truly funny in a socipathic kind of way. that's not really what I am really taking issue with, as you admit your own fickleness.

It's unarguable that I am fickle in my tastes, and some would even argue that I behave like a sociopath on occasion, but that's got nothing to do with B4ME's mediocrity as a supposed 'triple A' RTS title that's receiving a lot of undeserved attention when a good game like AoX goes completely ignored by stupid websites like GameSpy, who failed to even list it in their "Strategy Game of the Year Award" vote. They've put games like Evil Genius and Zoo Tycoon 2 in that list - even though neither of them are strategy games.

fair point, given your opinion. Your overlooking that it's tied to massively popular franchise like LotR which is only equalled in popularity by Star Wars, it has really nothing to do with whether AoX is good or bad. I don't see you or any of the other Star Wars dorks here bitch and moan when every time some moron unjustly salivates over every stupid Star Wars game put out. It's rare that SW games are criticized by the gaming rags unless they are so terrible they can't get a pass. B4ME suffers from this as a LotR game
fortunately it's the best LotR's game yet. I'd definitely give it the nod as one of the better games this year, but that's just me.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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Well, I agree with Sheriff on this one. I'm not a big fan of RTS games, but I tried it out over at my friends house the other day and I really liked what I saw for the couple of hours I go in on it. I didn't have any pathfinding issues, but then I only got so far, so can't really comment on that. Graphics are gorgeous and definitely on par with anything released recently. The handling of resources is definitely cool and one of the more unique things about the game. As Sheriff said though, the interface definitely could use some rearranging. I think that's the one thing about the game that smacked me in the face right away.

All in all though, I would love to get a copy of the game. It definitely intrigued me.
 

Sol Invictus

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I was rather dismayed by LOTR BFME mainly due to its interface. It was like taking a step backward from all of the improvements that were given to Real Time Strategy title throughout these years. It's very sloppy and much older titles like Total Annihilation bring it to shame. Having playing TA recently, it feels disheartening to have to deal with BFME's interface even though it's the latest RTS on the market.
 

wolfen

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Sheriff05 said:
that's an opinion and I'll disagree (with the exception of TS) The blizzard games are clickfests, their strategy is limited to the players speed, while that's inherently true of RTS' games in general. Blizzards games depth are always overcome by who can build what the fastest, they quickly become an exercise in tedium for all but the most rabid blizzard fans.

you're damn right on this.
how I hate those 'clickfest' blizzard games!
in fact, I couldn't make half an hour with Diablo 2 that my head aches.
 

Sheriff05

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Exitium said:
I was rather dismayed by LOTR BFME mainly due to its interface. It was like taking a step backward from all of the improvements that were given to Real Time Strategy title throughout these years. It's very sloppy and much older titles like Total Annihilation bring it to shame. Having playing TA recently, it feels disheartening to have to deal with BFME's interface even though it's the latest RTS on the market.

the most screwed up thing is the evenstar/ ring powers because you have to go completely seperate screen menu to select them and there in no time in the middle of MP game to take you eye of the ball. I find myself earning enough points to summon the balrog but never do it as I am so busy hammering away with my troops because I don't have 20 secs to navigate the menus once things get hot. some new hotkeys would solve this easily. The rest of the interface is "ok" like anything you have to get used to it.
I don't think the game was designed to set the bar for all RTS's, it's a LotR's game and it's unique RTS who's main goal is to define the LotR experience. (which it completely succeeds at) BTW the multiplayer functionality is the best I've seen out of the box EVER
it auto detects your firewall, no connections issues, no lag issues, Their ladder system is great as it always totally random who you play with your skill range. etc, etc.
It wasn't designed to be TA2, so if that is your bar your comparison for criteria is off. I don't really care if you don't like it Rex, just don't make shit up and exaggerate the negative because you "Don't want to like it".
 

Sol Invictus

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I don't see how hard it would have been to put the 'special abilities' on a sidebar or something like that. It's a step down from Generals in terms of the interface and Generals is a step down from most other RTS's.
 

kris

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Sheriff05 said:
that's an opinion and I'll disagree (with the exception of TS) The blizzard games are clickfests, their strategy is limited to the players speed, while that's inherently true of RTS' games in general. Blizzards games depth are always overcome by who can build what the fastest, they quickly become an exercise in tedium for all but the most rabid blizzard fans.

Not true, they have a lot of strategy if you can pass the critical early phase. Well Starcraft at least as I won a lot of games (multi) with the use of special abilities and countering others use of just one kind of unit.
 

xemous

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i played the first mission for the lord of the rings game and gave up. it looks like ea stratergy with this game was pull in lotr fans, good graphics, and heaps of units for epic battles. im not sure of the stratergy there were hardly any option apart from those 'ring powers'.

for aox it looks like ea stratergy was to get a sort of warcraft III clone in. but the game is actually pritty good / fun. i like the skirmish playing with the zerg like team of bugs. i dont even dislike the fact that its an obvious rip of of the zerg, because its a fkn good idea of a team. every rts should have a bug/mutant team with creep, and a tribute to starcraft on startup replaced the unescapable ea logo. the tech trees for the sides get confusing higher up the tree, to many units.

its strange that everyone thinks ccg is a bad game, i think its the secound best rts next to starcraft (i never judge an rts from single player story campaign always in multiplayer). i look for an rts in multiplayer that has a lot of options at the beginning for unexpected battles and suprises and dosent force you into anything. WIII failed and do did DOW.
ccg and starcraft both have this , this is why i hold them in high regard and why i hate DOW WCIII.

aox i still need to more time to give it a go online, but it look like its the same as WCIII's multiplayer, needs some more tweaking i suppose.
 

Sheriff05

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xemous said:
i never judge an rts from single player story campaign always in multiplayer

xemous said:
i played the first mission for the lord of the rings game and gave up. .


Considering what you said and considering the first mission in LotR:B4ME has nothing to do with the RTS Multiplayer portion of the game (it lets you try out the fellowship heroes as you go thru the Mines of Moria) Your not making much sense and come of as another skeptic who hasn't played the game but for some reason feels the need to talk shit about it.

FWIW: I played a shitload of Starcraft and WC2 back in the day both were fun in their time but eventually became an exercise in speed typing and multitasking. In my opinion that IS NOT what makes good a strategy game. Any game where rushing can used effectively as the ultimate trump card isn't a very good one. Yes of course good players develop counters for this, but that's beside the point as developing counterstrategies for something that is inherently a design flaw doesn't make the game any better.
advancement in design of RTS games has been slow one, as the popularity of older more poorly designed games still seems to overshadow the unique advancements in new games. I can only conclude this is due to rapid fanboism, nostalgia or just plain old stupidity. I am sure AoX is probably a pretty good game, just as LotR:B4ME is and I'm sure that now approaching 2005 they're both a shitload better than fucking Starcraft.
 

xemous

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haha well you got me there. there a few reasons why i diddnt even attempt a skirmish or multiplayer of b4me and thats because of the way the mechanics worked, and they were apparent in the first mission.

ccg had a really shit single player story, i never judged it or cared, thats probably a better way of putting it.
 

xemous

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FWIW: I played a shitload of Starcraft and WC2 back in the day both were fun in their time but eventually became an exercise in speed typing and multitasking. In my opinion that IS NOT what makes good a strategy game. Any game where rushing can used effectively as the ultimate trump card isn't a very good one. Yes of course good players develop counters for this, but that's beside the point as developing counterstrategies for something that is inherently a design flaw doesn't make the game any better.

aka

i played sc and wc2, they were good. i kept getting rushed, good player can couter the rush but i dont consider countering a rush a stratergy. im pissed of because im shit so ill go and play a lord of rings game by ea becuase its better.
 

theverybigslayer

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kris said:
Sheriff05 said:
that's an opinion and I'll disagree (with the exception of TS) The blizzard games are clickfests, their strategy is limited to the players speed, while that's inherently true of RTS' games in general. Blizzards games depth are always overcome by who can build what the fastest, they quickly become an exercise in tedium for all but the most rabid blizzard fans.

Not true, they have a lot of strategy if you can pass the critical early phase. Well Starcraft at least as I won a lot of games (multi) with the use of special abilities and countering others use of just one kind of unit.

Yes, but you can play Starcraft. Sheriff05 can click his mouse very fast.
 

PennyAnte

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I didn't see this in this thread yet, so just an FYI: GameSpot panned Armies Dec. 14. They ran up the "clone" flag, like a lot of people here. The score is a 6.7.

Among their less than loving statements:
GameSpot said:
If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Armies of Exigo is a real-time strategy game that should have Blizzard blushing.
... the developer has emulated everything from the 3D look of the units and buildings of Warcraft III to the three-pronged storyline of Starcraft.
This is a traditional RTS that seemingly ignores all the advances that the genre has experienced over the past several years.
Armies of Exigo almost shamelessly copies features and ideas from other games...wholesale.
...lines of dialogue are practically taken verbatim from The Lord of the Rings movies
They're basically accusing Black Hole of going beyond clone-ism and into repeated plagiarism. But they also give it the thumbs down on other issues ranging from unit control, overall battle pacing, poor AI and more.

So, Ex, I guess they would say it's not a "successor" to Blizzard's games, but more of a blatant rip-off.
 

Sol Invictus

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It's kind of hard to accuse them of plagiarism when some of their team members worked on Starcraft. They'd be copying their own work, then. GameSpot is incredibly notorious for its low scores, as you will note the Bloodlines review. On the other hand, they seem to think that Pirates!, a game that's enjoyable for no longer than a week, deserves a 9.2 and an Editor's Choice Award. On top of that, they think Paper Mario is a good RPg.
 

Whipporowill

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Rex - how far into the game are you? I'm at the last Fallen mission (#24 total) and it's pretty fucking obvious it's a total rip-off. Not saying I'm not enjoying it nor that it's a bad game that deserves a 6.7, but it's almost ridiculous seeing parts of the Fallen and not thinking zerg. Pretty embarrasing for Black Hole for lacking so much in invention as they certainly have the art assets available to them.
 

xemous

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Vault Dweller said:
A question then, would a StarCraft fan enjoy this rip-off or not?
no
 

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