Arcanum Arcanum is, by far, one of the worst *games* I've ever played... emphasis on "game" and not "RPG"

[Irenaeus III]

Hello fellow Codexers,

Since the most recent Arcanum thread (about companions) is falling out of the first page, it's time for a new thread about Arcanum to take its place. While perusing through latest RPGCodex profile posts, I found this very intriguing critique of Arcanum as a "game", not "RPG", by Lucas9

I'll let his words speak for themselves and we can all comment on his arguments from that.

Now playing: Arcanum, with Unofficial Patch

I tried, Ringo. I tried really hard to enjoy Arcanum.

since I know this may be a controversial opinion, I'll elaborate:

- Awful inventory system. You have to manually rearrange it yourself when the game should rearrange it itself when picking up an item. Moreover, items are sortest in the strangest order possible: why not put all potions together instead of having a splice of potions, junk, flowers, and other things?

- No filter for selling items. Having your inventory cluttered with stuff and looking for that one single item that the vendor *may* want to buy is ridiculous. Jesus Christ, why not darken the items he won't buy so I don't have to hover over every single item?

- Stupid companions that can't even flee a battle on command. Thanks Virgil, I'm pretty sure you can take on that enemy on your own, but I WANT TO LEAVE.

- Poor journal system sparce on details. For the most part, Morrowind had it right.

- Useless map for the most part, especially in Tarant. Would be far better if the map would show you exactly which streets had which name instead of having to hover every single sign to see where the fuck where you.

- You can't even ask NPCs where the different stores are, or whether certain stores exist or not, so you have to wander like a moron checking every building in the town to see if somebody will repair you equipment or buy/sell certain things.

- Lack of item descriptions. "Muh immersion", fuck you, even remedies tell you what they do, it's right there on the box.

- Practically useless manual for the most important things a player should know, like how does the magick/technology duology exactly work in-game.

- Not to mention there's no index in the manual.

it's not as much as the RPG elements of the game, but the flaws of the game itself. I don't think anyone is interesting in discussing these things, but god damn this game feels so archaic.

I don't care much about the graphics, in fact, I like that Arcnaum at least gave you a bit of visibility through walls as opposed to Fallout's "walk to the corners of the room to reveal potential items".

The game is shit tbh, if it wasn't a good RPG then it would be cast into oblivion.

I think Arcanum is a good RPG from what I've seen (was cool tricking an enemy into thinking I was part of an underground thieves guild), but a shit game: clunky controls, awful interface, terrible combat and map controls. Unplayable by my standards.

Excidium II also used the profile posts to bring in his own comments:

You didn't even mention the most important, how magic is better than everything and still degenerates into harm spam

Or that the graphics are muddy and terrible.

Arcanum truly is awful. Can you believe this site was founded by members of an arcanum fan site?

I refuse to believe anyone involved with Fallout worked in Arcanum

Seriously Arcanum was made with much better technology but manages to make everything look worse than previous black isle titles

 

[Excidium II]

Arcanum sucks

 

[Sigourn]

Like the thread says, this is not a criticism of Arcanum as an RPG. I've been exploring the Black Clan Mines and having my ass handed by tons of traps and blazing golems. And as much as I hate the huge amount of traps, even if I use the detect traps scroll, this is nowhere my biggest issue with this game.

The thing with Arcanum is that it feels like nobody ever playtested this attempt at a "game". It has so many annoying things that I can't imagine anyone EVER saying "Remember Arcanum? That was a great game!". It's not. It's shit. Fallout 1 was not without its issues: an awful inventory system that forced you to scroooll down. But other than that, the game was pretty much perfect and I had no significant issues with it at all. It helps, of course, that every NPC is willing to buy anything from you, no doubt. But it isn't an excuse for blind developers who never got to thinking "hey, maybe it isn't such a good idea to force the player into checking which one of his items can he sell or not".

Arcanum, like in a lot of classic RPGs, forces you into the inventory and interface managing quite often. And it's an awful mess. If everything posted in the OP was corrected, the game would be, to me, significantly better. Not to mention the manual is crap and riddled with pointless verbose but fails to explain the most important mechanics of the game. Thanks for nothing, Troika!

 

[Stargazer_]

Arcanum will always be a controversial topic on the Dex, since Im a mondblut I will refrain from shitposting since it's obvious where I stand.

 

[Leitz]

I agree, totally overrated shit game.

 

[janior]

worse than vtmb better than fallout

 

[Excidium II]

worse than vtmb better than fallout

lmao

 

[Jaesun]

Joined: Jan 10, 2016

 

[Jimmious]

Amazingly the tragic choice of switchable real-time/turn-based combat is not even mentioned when I would expect the thread to start from it.
Most points are true to be honest, Arcanum is a harsh experience and will prevent most people from actually enjoying the good parts like lore and world-crafting

 

[Sigourn]

I should add that the game would have been better as well with these other two things:

- Shorter dialogue pop-ups: Chris Avellone made a good point on his Let's Play, and that is that players tend to read much faster than the NPC's can talk, so by the end you have this huge pop-up already read while the NPC keeps speaking.
- Misses, daamge, critical strikes and so on placed on the UI instead of popping up above the creatures or NPCs. Maybe it was me, but I was focused on their health bar instead of the pop-ups, so having both things placed in the same UI would have worked better.

Amazingly the tragic choice of switchable real-time/turn-based combat is not even mentioned when I would expect the thread to start from it.
Most points are true to be honest, Arcanum is a harsh experience and will prevent most people from actually enjoying the good parts like lore and world-crafting

Yeah, I don't like the combat much either, but it's mostly because of my companions stupid AI, otherwise, turn-based works much like Fallout and real-time works wonders for those pesky enemies so that you can end battles quickly.

 

[Neanderthal]

Right you bastards, listen ard an listen good! If tha dunt stop saying mean things about a game i'm disturbinly attached to, an havin your own opinions, then i'm gonna put on a wig, smear some make up on me mush, go on Tumbler an say you're all homophobes who are trying to bully me cos i'm a pre op bitch. Then i'm gonna cry until me beards soaking, might even extinguish me pipe, who knows.

Oh an donate to me Patreon shitlords, need some new gym equipment an me fridge has only got a few gallon o cold tins o medicine left, so i'm anxious an all.

 

[Trashos]

No, the combat does not work like in Fallout at all. You had to keep your finger over the "start turn-based combat" button, that was terrible. Also everyone had a million movement points, so only very crude tactics were meaningful.

But let's talk about the things that were done well for a moment:

- the World is immersive. Tarant feels very much alive. The feud between magic and technology feels alive and makes sense.
- the Quest Design is diverse and intelligent. I still remember the feeling when I was entering the negotiation room in Caladon after spending half an hour studying the relative material and keeping notes. The best quests in other games usually remind me of Arcanum quests.
- Character Customization is mind blowing. Arcanum is probably the best game ever in that department. Drop your boring mages and play a gunslinger.
- Crafting is excellent.
- All the little things. Newspapers, reactivity, little secrets dispersed throughout. To be frank, I also liked the inventory.

Yes, it is lacking in some departments (importantly in combat), but are you going to just throw away all the above advantages? I won't, I love it. Nobody has been able to recreate some of its best parts.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Nobody has been able to recreate some of its best parts.

Yep. Arcanum is broken as hell, but its good parts certainly make up for the shitty ones for me.

Fallout 1 was not without its issues: an awful inventory system that forced you to scroooll down.

Fuck off. This is how you can tell a newfag. I guess you played it last year for the first time?

 

[Sigourn]

No, the combat does not work like in Fallout at all. You had to keep your finger over the "start turn-based combat" button, that was terrible. Also everyone had a million movement points, so only very crude tactics were meaningful.

Yeah, I don't mean it is exactly like Fallout, but the concept is still the same: actions take action points. You reminded me of another criticism I have to make.

- No indicator whatsoever about whether you are playing real-time or turn-based. Meaning you could have gone real-time to kill a few rats, and only to later get your ass handed by wolves because you forgot to go back to turn-based.

Fuck off. This is how you can tell a newfag. I guess you played it last year for the first time?

"My nostalgia googles prevent me from accepting valid criticisms."


1997:

1997:

And is that an arrange button I'm seeing? How preposterous!

 

[thesoup]

I will concur. Arcanum is worthless garbage.
Also Fallout is overrated (mediocre tbh) and Bloodlines is twilight for nerds.

Nobody has been able to recreate some of its best parts.

Yep. Arcanum is broken as hell, but its good parts certainly make up for the shitty ones for me.

Fallout 1 was not without its issues: an awful inventory system that forced you to scroooll down.

Fuck off. This is how you can tell a newfag. I guess you played it last year for the first time?

I like this reply. This retort to "you played it last year for the first time". This way you are admitting it was only ever good when it came out.

 

[FeelTheRads]

"My nostalgia googles prevent me from accepting valid criticisms."

And is that an arrange button I'm seeing? How preposterous!

And what exactly is that? All I can see is a list which you also have to scroll.

So fuck off, newfag. The inventory wasn't great when it was released, but it was far from awful.

Not to mention the manual is crap and riddled with pointless verbose but fails to explain the most important mechanics of the game.

And fuck off again.

 

[Cassidy]

Who gave Irenaeus III password to Drog Black Tooth?

 

[valcik]

If the only thing what bothers you in Fallout is scrolling inventory screen, just scroll it with keyboard shortcuts as any gentleman and scholar is supposed to do. It's lightning fast and convenient thanks to beautifully visualized items, who would pixel-hunt some Arrange button instead?

 

[Excidium II]

Fallout inventory is bad but not such a big deal since you don't really ever carry that much stuff.

Let us not change the subject from arcanum sucking.

 

[Sigourn]

And what exactly is that? All I can see is a list which you also have to scroll.

So fuck off, newfag. The inventory wasn't great when it was released, but it was far from awful.

Have you even played Final Fantasy VII? Or any Final Fantasy, for that matter. They have very simple inventories, functional, no nonsense.

Fallout 1 doesn't have:

- An inventory where you can see a lot of things at the same time.
- An inventory that allows you to sort.
- And hell, if you are pushing me, I may as well say we shouldn't need to "examine" an item to get its description: any other game would place it somewhere in the UI.

It's a very poor inventory, and thank God it's a one-man inventory only, I can't imagine how bad it would be if we were juggling 6 party members at a time with hundreds of different items. I imagine, however, you would love to scroll past 100 items searching for that particular piece of armor, whereas in Final Fantasy you go to Equip and choose what you want to wear (and with nice numbers to see the different stats simultaneously, too!).

This retarded idea of "it's old so it's okay" makes no sense when the same year gave us FFVII. Not to mention I've seen people actually say they want isometric RPGs with a fixed camera, when fixed cameras are shit as opposed to something like Vagrant Story.

And fuck off again.

 

[Irenaeus III]

Who gave Irenaeus III password to Drog Black Tooth?

What does that even means? I hated the guy the little time he was around last year.

 

[FeelTheRads]

They have very simple inventories, functional, no nonsense.

Unless someone modded mouse control in, they also have a huge list that you have to scroll with the keyboard. Absolutely retarded.

On the other hand, these days you can play Fallout with mouse-wheel support.

Not to mention I've seen people actually say they want isometric RPGs with a fixed camera, when fixed cameras are shit as opposed to something like Vagrant Story.

OK, who's alt is this retard?

 

[Ash]

I enjoy it when Codex's top 5 storyfag RPGs are challenged.

FF7 Inventory

Fuck off. FF7 Inventory is shit. Scrolling for days.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997):

Scroll list with two columns. Much less scrolling.



In reality all examples in this thread are all a bit shit compared to how some other games with massive inventories have handled it, like Morrowind (subcategories) or Ultima Underworld (separate bags). Fallout's while shit is not that bad because you don't get a great deal of items throughout the game like in all these other examples. Still shit though.

This retarded idea of "it's old so it's okay" makes no sense when the same year gave us FFVII. Not to mention I've seen people actually say they want isometric RPGs with a fixed camera, when fixed cameras are shit as opposed to something like Vagrant Story.

Careful dude. You need to specify what makes it shit. Because static cameras aren't inherently shit. I say as someone who prefers dynamic cameras and 3D worlds. Word of warning though: you're on a site dedicated almost exclusively to old RPGs with fixed, isometric camera angles (note their top 5 RPGs, for example), and they will eat you alive for saying shit like that. This isn't so much RPG codex as it is Isometric RPG Codex. Other games are covered, but the main players and majority in general are isofags. I suffered gravely for favoring First Person perspective (for interactivity and immershun potential) over iso.

 

[Excidium II]

Not to mention I've seen people actually say they want isometric RPGs with a fixed camera, when fixed cameras are shit as opposed to something like Vagrant Story.

Motherfucker I thought we were fighting on the same front here.

 

[Xor]

- Stupid companions that can't even flee a battle on command. Thanks Virgil, I'm pretty sure you can take on that enemy on your own, but I WANT TO LEAVE.

"virgil back off". Or just hit F5.

- Poor journal system sparce on details. For the most part, Morrowind had it right.

Maybe next time try actually reading the dialog when you talk to people. Next you'll be asking for a quest compass.

- Awful inventory system. You have to manually rearrange it yourself when the game should rearrange it itself when picking up an item. Moreover, items are sortest in the strangest order possible: why not put all potions together instead of having a splice of potions, junk, flowers, and other things?

It works like pretty much any grid-based inventory of its time, and the sorting feature was obviously a late addition not worth using. Organize your shit yourself and it's not a problem.

- Practically useless manual for the most important things a player should know, like how does the magick/technology duology exactly work in-game.

Spoiler

Note: Innate Technological Aptitude can cause Spell failure. The chance of failure is proportional to the Technological Aptitude of the caster and to the Spell's level. Someone with a high Technological Aptitude casting a level 5 Spell stands a very good chance that the Spell will fail to cast.

Spoiler

This Statistic's value is based upon the number of Character Points the player has spent on either Magical Spells or Technological Skills and Disciplines. A Character with more points in Spells is said to have Magical Aptitude, whereas a Character with more points in Technological Skills and Disciplines is said to have Technological Aptitude. This Statistic can range from 100% Magical Aptitude to 100% Technological Aptitude. Human Characters begin with a neutral value of 0, having no innate leanings towards either Magic or Technology. The meter on the right-hand side of the Character Editor Interface will display the Magical/Technological Aptitude of one's Character.

As the Magical Aptitude of a Character increases, his or her use of Magical Spells and items will be more proficient and effective. By the same token, Technological items will work less well for this Character, and will be less efficacious when used by him and on him. Similarly, as Technological Aptitude increases, Technological items will be used more proficiently by a Character... but Spells and Magical items will work less well in his vicinity.

As a general rule, a Magical item will work adequately for someone with no Magical Aptitude, but optimally for someone with a 100% Magical Aptitude and not at all for someone with a 100% Technological Aptitude. The reverse is true for a Technological item; it works adequately for a person of no aptitude, best for someone with a 100% Technological Aptitude, and not at all for someone with a 100% Magical Aptitude.

And this info is further outlined in a few conversations in the Shrouded Hills.

Arcanum's far from perfect, but I wouldn't call it a terrible game because it lacks accessibility. That was clearly intended. It's the last of the old-school CRPGs, a throwback to an earlier era when games weren't as polished and the player was expected to figure things out on their own. And read the fucking manual.