Alpha Protocol dialogues and screens

[Dementia Praecox]

Sure, the whole "all paths lead to a different outcome" is nice, but that doesn't vindicate the system as a whole as it is more indicative of Obsidian not being total lazy asswipes like, say Bioware, and throwing in tons of "false choices".

I still have some faith in Avellone. So I have a faint hope that those would be reduced to a minimum.

First off, one is limited to only three choices at any juncture with this system, which is a cap dialogue trees do not share.

That depends on the developer. There's no rule that say that dialogue trees require more than three choices. That goes for the ME-system too, theres nothing stopping a developer adding ten or hundred choices there either. And as you mentioned your self, fake choices are in abundance in most games with dialogue trees. Hell, even Torment and Arcanum had those. I agree that the ME-system and the AP-system probably would exclude data-mining options.

Second, it seems to have no room for dialogue skills or the active use of them as even if they can be implemented, you'll never really know you are using them or have a choice whether or not to use them.

That's bullshit. It all depends on implementation. This isn't a proper argument against the system. I'm arguing for the system, not these particular implementations we've seen yet. And I won't disregard APs system quite yet.

Third, it's worse than Mass Effect in the whole idea that the player has no idea what their character will say.

Well, that's a matter of taste, I guess. While I'd still prefer a non-voiced dialogue tree-system if I could choose, I definitely see a potential entertaining game mechanic in this. Sure it'll make a bigger boundary between the player and player character, but that's not necessarily bad. I don't need to identify with Lara Croft to enjoy the first couple of Tomb Raiders either. :inbeforeitsnotanrpg:

Whereas in Mass Effect, you had a rough idea of what Shepard is going to say based on a small summary like phrase, Alpha Protocol gives you a huge demeanor that could go in any direction and takes a lot of control over the character away from the player for that "cinematic" bullshit.

Well I like movies. But I don't like feeling forced to skip voiced dialogue because that shitty c-grade actor uses a half an hour to say it. If I don't know what the hell he's going to say, I'll have much more of an incentive to keep listening anyway. I'm sure someone will see that as even more annoying, but I watch shitty horror flicks from the seventies all the time, and I don't get the urge to skip their dialogue either. Second time through, on the other hand...

But that is perhaps a bit besides your point. As I wrote above though, as long as I'm entertained, I'm a happy sport. The not-knowing-what-the-hell-he's-going-to-say-next seems like an entertaining mechanic. Different, but entertaining.

And fourth, it's a degeneration of dialogue from a critical gameplay element, like in Fallout, Torment, Arcanum, and Mask of the Betrayer to what is essentially a mildly interactive cutscene.

I agree, but I don't necessarily need that in every game. As I've stated before, I don't advocate getting rid of dialogue trees, I say different mechanics in different games. As long as I get my dialogue trees in my AoD, I don't mind interactive cut-scenes in my Alpha Protocol.

The whole argument of everything being okay because there will be different outcomes for each choice is asinine as well.

what

One is basically saying that because other games have had poorly implemented dialogue tree systems, this idiotic one is good because it is not half-assed.

It's not the same. Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

The four rationales in the above paragraph are the reasons that this system can never match the potential of a good dialogue tree.

You forget that in AAA RPGs those dialogue trees will be fully voiced. Aside from game-stopping bugs, that was easily the most annoying aspect of Bloodlines.

If dialogue doesn't really allow one to shape their character the way they want to, then what else will? It seems as though the focus is on action, so I assume it will only allow a person to choose what kind of killing machine their character is.

Uh, It seems to me that you'll shape your character in at least three distinct ways and that's if you're going with just one stereo-type all the way through. See my quote from the interview in my reply to VD for the rest. (Which reminds me: Wasn't it good enough to warrant a reply back, VD?)

This is beginning to look worse than Mass Effect as far as role-playing goes

I'm beginning to wonder if we're talkning about the same game. Sure it's not Alpha [...] Protocol from 2004 you're talking about?

I'm a little confused as to why the Codex hasn't come down on this game with full force like the Codex did with Mass Effect.

:fanboy:

Sure, the fact that it' Obsidian and the fact they've done some decent to great stuff in the past and have a lot of pedigree might explain it, but that doesn't mean they can't fuck up beyond all recognition.

So that's enough to go all guns blazing? Because they can fuck up beyond all recognition?

Just look at Neverwinter Nights 2 and the original campaign. All the talent of Obsidian and it ended up a buggy, dumbed-down, and uninteresting PoS. Their "great writing and dialogue" didn't ride in and save the day there, so don't assume it will be in Alpha Protocol by default.

Well, I can imagine that with the licence to make a sequel, there was some demands that followed it. Now I don't know wether or not they were given full creative freedom, but after the lackluster rception of KOTOR 2 it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect they weren't. And seeing the moderate success of NWN2 I can imagine the reins becoming loosened. But this is fanboy speculation at best, so I'll stop here.

I know Obsidian has the talent to make something like this work and be great, I'm just not fully confident they will. I'm rooting for them, but I can't help but feel they have made some awful blunders right out of the gate.

Well, not me. At least not yet. The fanboy in me is still going strong, and I think it shows.

You've got till Monday to untap, Murrow. I'll be internet-hungry and I expect nothing less than a good read from you.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I alwas thought both Kotor2 and NWN2 were hampered by shitty gameplay and that horrible Aurora engine. Now that Obsidian is finally working on their own IP and gameplay style, I'm confident it will rock. Plus Mitsoda and Avellone are both on the project, so I expect nothing less than awesome characters and witty conversations.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Uh, It seems to me that you'll shape your character in at least three distinct ways and that's if you're going with just one stereo-type all the way through. See my quote from the interview in my reply to VD for the rest. (Which reminds me: Wasn't it good enough to warrant a reply back, VD?)

Guess not, but if you insist...

The interview quote: "Even though the three J.B.s are being used here as archetypes it is only for illustrative purposes. The player isn't limited to one of three options for character progression; just like in Fallout, you can focus on any combination of skills that suits your play style."

That kinda goes without saying as going with restrictive classes would have been beyond lame. Anyway, we aren't talking about character development here, so your quote is pointless. We are talking about dialogues:

"-Dialog trees are gone. It uses a "stance system" in order to maintain "cinematic flow". From the description, it seems as though players pick one of three stances, one for each J.B., a suave/smooth one, a cool professional one, and a brash/EXTREME collar-grabbing one. They say that someone who wants a Bond alike can just set it to suave.."

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Anyway, we aren't talking about character development here, so your quote is pointless. We are talking about dialogues

Context. I point to that quote in reply to this:

If dialogue doesn't really allow one to shape their character the way they want to, then what else will? It seems as though the focus is on action, so I assume it will only allow a person to choose what kind of killing machine their character is.