Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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In Progress ACHTUNG! Codex! Let's survive Operation Star.

Discussion in 'Codex Playground' started by overtenemy, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. Merkwürdigliebe Magister

    Merkwürdigliebe
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    Third Reich from the Sun
    Click here and disable ads!
    Das Bump.
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  2. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
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    OvertEnemy, much blood was spilled in getting this to page 2. Don't let our posts be in vain!
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  3. overtenemy Scholar

    overtenemy
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    I'm aware of the properties of the HEAT round vs AP, and it should be said that we were comparing 75mm to 37mm in this instance. According to this game, the HEAT round, as a rule, is nowhere near as a effective as a kinetic piercing shell. The guns I had in that battle were more like field artillery pieces and not dedicated anti-tank guns. I forgot if I mentioned that. The 75mm PaK is long-barreled and vastly superior to the rubbish I had, and would have shredded the Mathilda with no problem. The people at Graviteam evidently disagree with your WW2 HEAT > AP sentiment. In this game, HEAT rounds are generally inferior. As I'll post next update, there's a 50mm PaK gun that fires armor piercing shells capable of frontally penetrating a Mathilda at 480 meters, nevermind the side.

    It seems gdrfrooty has been banned or something, since his posts are all gone. That's odd. I was going to respond to his Achtung Panzer hate posts with a few things but now all I can remember is the retarded AI and failure to destroy a Mathilda with 75mm heat rounds. To the former, I respond that the AI was not entirely incorrect in its attack. It used a massed attack supported by artillery and tanks on open ground that the tanks would be able to dominate. The issue is that I got lucky - they picked ground I had set the majority of my forces to cover. It didn't work out for them, although it wasn't great for me either. As for the 75mm failing to destroy Mathildas, two things: first, I only posted the pic about describing hull armor. As for superstructure armor, the 75mm HEAT round I fired was totally equal with the Mathilda's side armor. I sort of gambled on which would win. I lost. Furthermore, although I did see at least one penetration, it needs to be said that in this game you don't destroy a tank by simply hitting it with rounds. You hit something important, or you waste ammunition. As it stood, the rounds that penetrated in my case failed to ignite ammunition or destroy the engine and as such my inadequate guns failed against a heavily armored tank. There is nothing wrong with this.

    And for Phelot, I'm still here. My schedule is just a little Achtung Panzer prohibitive at the moment. More than likely however, I'll post an update Saturday when I wake up. Maybe Sunday for the socialist Euro scum.
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  4. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Insert clever insult here
    Yup, what I meant was that a 75mm HEAT is definitely better tank killer than a 37mm AP - not only because of the different properties of HEAT but it's, in this instance, larger size.

    Weird of them. Steel Panthers and Close Combat series thought otherwise. Naturally some early HEAT rounds were rubbish because of crappy quality but generally, a similar calibre HEAT round should beat an AP round, performance wise, if fired from the same cannon. Hmm, maybe I'll have to hunt down their forums and see if they are explaining this.
    After that we'll be waiting for the emergence of KV-2 :p
    Jigawatt Brofists this.
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  5. overtenemy Scholar

    overtenemy
    Joined:
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    Messages:
    223
    Mathilda, Meet PaK


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    Where we left off. Two SSLAH infantry platoons have arrived. The enemy has gained no territory in the Northeast but movement is still hampered by fatigue and traffic jams. Michler, Buchwald and Ganther pretty much refuse to go anywhere. Best I can do is have them swap places with another nearby platoon but that doesn't REALLY solve my problem, as it'll tire out both platoons further and still leave me with the same amount of dudes at the front at a juncture in which I could need every man.

    I suppose now is a good time to point out an oddity in the game. When I was attacked last turn by tanks in the Southwest keypoint and had to retreat, initially the game wouldn't let me because it included Firster's platoon which wasn't under my command. The battle also pointed out to me that I was unable to not only position the SSLAH units in tactical combat but not even SEE where they were going to deploy to begin with. I felt this was a little crazy because it'd mean there would be no cooperation between my units and SSLAH units. There was an option to enable command of friendly units, but it specified that it was only operational, so I left it off. In desperation I turned it on and lo and behold, I was granted tactical control over Firster's platoon and was able to retreat. I then turned it off. But now even with it off, I still have command over the SSLAH units in the operational mode, something I'd rather not have. They seem to move, sometimes, when not ordered to by me, but it's sort of a risk.

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    Moves. The two SSLAH infantry platoons move onto the field. Ohlerich, the SSLAH recon platoon guy moves without my input Southeast and reveals that there is an unknown platoon Northeast of him. Thankfully, they are not attacked by it or by the tank platoon further South. Presumably this is because the AI has few units in the area and would rather sit on the keypoint rather than advance and risk my cutting around and taking it back without a fight, which I would have been likely to do. Northwards, with the help of the remaining AT guns and two unidentified platoons, the tanks re-attack. I had to remove Becker from his entrenched positioning covering the West to sit in Central Taranovka or else the enemy would've just walked right into it. I see only Gribov's tank platoon but the other MAY be hiding in the Southwest corner of South Taranovka because I have no one that can see that far. Then a bunch of unknown crap (God please no thanks) attacks the infantry that I've brought onto the field. Given the proven deficiency of Kraut Infanterie anti-tank capability, these developments could be seen as disastrous. However...

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    This is the penetration graph for a 50mm PaK 38 against a Mathilda. Admittedly, it only has one round that'll do the job, but it does it VERY well. The issue here I guess is that the gun platoon I moved up has only one - the other two guns are 37mm, and I can't see before the battle precisely what ammunition is available to it. If it has no or low APCR then...well. I'm fucked. Let's take care of that business first.

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    The battlefield and my deployments. The middle square featuring the keypoint Diana 2 is where the enemy platoon said it was attacking on the operational map. I'd want to defend there, ideally, but there's a bit of an issue.

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    This is it. It's a line of sight nightmare for anti-tank guns. It would be difficult for me to set up the 50mm PaK 38 in a position to adequately defend the area. The best way to do it is put it very far up, but even that is not ideal. The real issue becomes that barring the 50mm, my defense is weak here. Entrenched infantry against tanks...we saw how that ended last battle. With only one gun that can't cover everything, and the possibility that the gun will be knocked out...I require a bit more concentration. Plus, Central Taranovka is far more important a piece of property. My deployments that I've shown reflect this then. I've put the 50mm in basically the same spot I put the 75mms last time, and surrounded it with machine guns and infantry, much like last time. A token entrenched platoon defends Diana 2 with the aim that it'll warn me if the area is attacked and may detrack and stop a tank. If the 50mm is lost, I still have people waiting in ambush in buildings in Taranovka for the tank to drive by. In Diana I also have two APCs that are deployed back out of sight as a reserve against infantry. Being mobile, if any one area is swarmed with infantry alone (definitely no tanks) they'll be able to arrive on the scene. And further east, the platoons at the Crossroads square are untrenched and hidden in buildings there. I'd have preferred they be in Taranovka but they aren't able to deploy that far away, and I'm not making them walk there during the battle because it'd tire them out and we've been having issues with that in a big way.

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    Entrenched next to the frozen corpses of both Russian animals and comrades alike. No time to bury them.

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    The gun upon which all my hopes rest. Despite being smaller caliber, sure looks manlier than the last ones eh?

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    A problem with this. I want my dudes to be in houses because it's much harder for tanks to see them that way, but the standard defense around these particular houses puts a dude in a shell crater where he'll easily be seen once the enemy gets close enough. I have to move this ambush further north to avoid this.

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    20+ minutes pass and what do you know? Tank spotted, driving northward along the road into Central Taranovka. Think I'm about to get lucky again.

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    The 50mm has a shot, at 427 meters...I wait til its closer to guarantee a good shot. I also have 37mms here that may distract it and/or de-track it, so I might as well wait til they can shoot as well.

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    I order the guns to open fire as it passes the trees. But what's this? It's off the road now.

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    Off the road, facing us directly, with the turret traversed at a 37mm. FFS stop taking your sweetass time and FIRE.

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    A shot. A hit. A HOLE. The 50mm's first shot puts a hole right in the turret. Let's see if that does the job.

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    Hatches open, surviving crew members bail. With one shot the 50mm did what all of my troops last battle could not.

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    They don't last long. Oddly, no infantry are seen, and no other tanks are seen to boot.

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    I wait. An hour into the battle, I've yet to see more enemies, and there's been no cease fire. At this point I could simply sit here and wait for the timer to run out. This is very conservative of course. But I wondered, should I be playing more aggressively? After being humbled by tanks several times this campaign I decided that I would hold off until my own arrived, and the conservative view is in line with this. Thing is though, mechanically speaking the enemy is destroying me. His victory points far exceed mine beacuse he controls almost all of the key points on the map. And it just so happens that South Taranovka is a key point and available for capture in this battle. The tank platoon that attacked me was Gribov. Looking through my screenshots, I find that Gribov was the platoon that lost the Valentine. He had two operational Mathildas left, assuming he didn't replace the Valentine with something. Now, I'm thinking, if the other tank platoon were present in this battle the attack would've been more massive instead of that pitiful one tank probe that was sent, probably intended to work up an undefended flank and capture territory with minimal fuss. I sense weakness. But I'm still cautious. Tentatively, the APCs are ordered south towards Jade 1. This is the square the tanks started in, but remember the tank I saw definitely came from South Taranovka, and furthermore it's the key point, the only one in the battle. If they're defending something, its that. I don't expect resistance at Jade 1.

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    And I don't get any. As the keypoint is captured, the enemy offers a ceasefire. I wonder why they even bothered attacking! Maybe they thought my casualties were more horrendous than they are. This is why recon platoons are important. If they had seen what I had behind central Taranovka they might not have attacked at all. I expect there is one Mathilda there, one operation AT gun, and some infantry. That doesn't sound like much but consider the difficulties in wheeling up my anti-tank weaponry then effectively deploying it against a tank. The casualties would be immense and I'd probably lose the only effective anti-tank weapon I have. Just not feeling it. I do have an idea however. To control a square after the battle is over, you don't need the key point. The key point HELPS, but the main issue is the balance of forces within the square. If you have greater forces, you keep the square. So what if I move my dudes in around the edges and accept the cease fire while not actually engaging the enemy? Let's find out.

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    Infantry are moved to a wooded area out of sight from the key point and most of the square in general.

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    Some sights around, such as Krondorf's last stand. Never forget.

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    The rest of the infantry is ordered south, through cover of buildings, to beeline towards the waypoint. Soon as they encounter resistance I'll accept the ceasefire.

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    Fuhrmann and Sayer get pretty close when they spot infantry in the houses, and a tank sitting RIGHT on the key point. No thanks, cease fire!

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    They're firing. Fucking cease fire GO!

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    And go it did. Another draw. We didn't take a single death though, and killed a Mathilda, and possibly captured some territory.

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    The map and enemy platoons. Their forces were all concentrated around the keypoint. It's a good thing it cease fired when it did. They didn't have alot of dudes though. Vah is a battalion commander and doesn't have as many troops directly under him as a normal platoon, the tank platoon is now merely one tank, the AT platoon has a gun with one guy on it and then one fully operational gun, and the rest of the troops were supply troops. The same 3 man squad pieces of shit that I never send into battle. Its telling. They may be at the end of their strength in the area. And yet, I can't really attack for fear of that tank, as well as the other two Mathildas I know to exist. Though one was de-tracked last I saw it.

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    As I look at this, I realize I may have gotten VERY lucky. The round that penetrated the tank was NOT the round that the graph showed to be effective against Mathildas. That was the PzGr 40 APCR. This is PzGr 39. Its possible that I have none of the proper ammunition, I forgot to screenshot his ammo. If that's the case I got very lucky indeed.

    [​IMG]

    How things look after. I DID capture the keypoint, and forced platoons occupying both squares away. Hooray for exploiting game mechanics. Some may even currently be routing. Vah and someone else have retreated Northwest into previously unoccupied territory. Should I expend the effort involved in dislodging them, when I may need my troops to be rested and entrenched in case of more tank attacks? A question for next turn. In the meantime, there's another fight going on.

    [​IMG]

    The battlefield. I only have one entrenched platoon and most of the terrain is wide open. The enemy has shown us a plethora of tanks so far and there could easily be some in this battle. My first instinct was to retreat as soon as a tank is spotted. I have only one gun, a 75mm short barrel that as we have seen doesn't cut it against heavily armored tanks. The only buildings are in the Northernmost middle square and they won't even come close to fitting all my troops. But if I retreat all these squares will automatically belong to the enemy and the platoons will retreat/round. Many won't be available in the short term and I wasn't sure at the time if I'd be able to afford that because I still need to hold out for several more turns. So I thought of a plan!

    [​IMG]

    In the Southwest, platoons unable to entrench are gathered in a line ready to assault Bespalovka which is a key point in addition to having many buildings for cover. They'll storm in, take cover in the houses and in so doing hopefully provoke a counter attack that they will be capable of handling. The most important factor in my decision to do this was once again the possibility of an enemy tank platoon. They simply don't have a chance in the open. As it stands, as soon as they go in they could meet face to face with machine guns, tanks, or Soviet infantry defending the key point from the buildings, any of which would cause serious problems. Nevertheless, I feel its the safest idea given my lack of intel. In the middle square, the one being attacked, the entrenched infantry setup with the 75mm gun, a machine gun, and unentrenched infantry hiding in the forests to the side ready to ambush. They'll hold infantry and APCs for sure, but if they get tanked...well. I just don't know. I may have to just try to hold on to Bespalovka while they all die if it comes to it. But ideally any enemy tanks would attempt to retake Bespalovka and in so doing expose themselves to any HHL-3s I have available. Maybe. I hope. The four icons around the keypoint are APCs who form a reserve, ready to attack or counterattack wherever infantry presents itself. If tanks show, they'll have to bail. If worst comes to worst, I'll use them to drive around the battlefield, avoiding tanks and capturing/recapturing territory to avoid a total territorial loss by the time the battle is over.

    [​IMG]

    Attack commences. I was worried about spotting enemies instantly. So far, nothing. This could work.

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    Artillery over at the Diana keypoint. I move the APCs away to avoid it. There'll be an attack there for sure.

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    Keypoint taken! Brilliant. I begin getting everyone into buildings.

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    Meanwhile, infantry spotted heading north towards my defenses. Moving slowly, can only see a few of them so far. No threat to the guys at Bespalovka.

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    Looks like the latest artillery barrage was actually smoke rather than HE. Trying to blind us. Wrong spot though.

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    Enemies spotted South of Bespalovka now. Brilliant. We ran in and took their defensive position and now they have to attack to expel us from it. Dressler is being an idiot and not getting into a building. He's that crazy dude with no ammo from a couple battles ago.

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    In the middle, first blood is draw. I order the machine gun to open fire but no one else. A few Reds drop.

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    Though no one has contact with them currently, they were last seen coming in. My dudes are being a bit slow. They weren't able to take up positions in the outer line of houses before the enemy got here.

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    Some dudes attacking Diana try going through the forest to avoid the machine gun but run into the unentrenched infantry I had hiding there. So far, nothing resembling progress has been made on our position.

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    A few of the Russians get in close now. One of my problems is I had everyone on hold fire even though they were attacking. Oops. sort of a force of habit from being pushed on the defensive so much. At least the inner houses are manned and they probably won't get further.

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, telling my dudes to shoot helped.

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    Meanwhile by Diana more infantry are spotted, but they're not going towards my prepared position. The machine gun there has them under fire and has killed a few but its not enough. They'll either be able to make for the key point or hit the position from the side and and while they probably wouldn't overrun it, the casualties would be higher than they need to be. Since only infantry has been spotted, the APC reserve is ordered to meet them head on.

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    In Bospalovka, Fuhrmann is in the outer line of houses. In case anyone forgot, this is one of the dudes with a mortar at his disposal. It has only 8 shells but it makes itself heard.

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    Conscious that Fuhrmann was a little exposed and is something of a VIP, I have more infantry ordered up to support the line he's found himself at. Langendorter's squad takes a few casualties before it gets managed to settle in. The start is a little rough.

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    Enemy also finally gets around to targeting its artillery.

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    Its painfully accurate.

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    But the second strike appears to be mainly smoke. It's a little late, honestly. Most of the people attacking frontally are dead by now.

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    This is always funny. Some dude in Langendorter's squad was in a wooden shack that got lit on fire by molotovs.

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    Arriving on the scene and just barely dodging an HE barrage, the APCs begin inflicting casualties. Once again all the grey dots are dead enemies, and its only getting better.

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    Some of the infantry breaks up and tries to run up the hill towards our position, where they'd be able to leap on the trenches and guns much more easily. Fortunately, I have multiple dudes in the forest there and its going to take a bit of doing.

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    A close combat low visibility forest fight ensues, and Kempl has already taken a loss. Welp, it's what he's there for.

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    I seem to have screwed up. I drove too far forward and let the APCs get too close. They also only fire forward basically, so I should've been paying more attention to them. Now a subhuman has actually gotten close!

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    No problem this time, fortunately.

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    But Kempl is in trouble. One poor bastard lies facing a subhuman as he catches the strong scent of one buddy's burning corpse while another's blood squirts all around him. Help is obviously needed. I begin pulling squads from the line which is now perfectly fine to bring down to the forest, as well as have the APCs have the hill to provide some fire.

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    But as I do so goddamn it this again. Ruskie managed to throw a nade this time!

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    Ahah, missed. Can barely see it to the left of the APC falling.

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    Other APC to the rescue. Need to stop letting that happen.

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    Anyway with that taken care of, the Bolsheviks climbing up the hill are now terrible exposed to machine gun fire from the rear. Although that direction was certainly the best way to attack my line, it was hardly feasible with the APCs present.

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    Cease fire. That's it. They had no tanks. Just an infantry attack. Fools. With these APCs, I won't be satisfied by anything but total victory.

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    The cease fire offer now open, it's clear that this is over. The APCs are ordered into their territory to claim it.

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    The dudes in Bespalovka fended off the attack on them without further incident and have been sitting pretty. Some infantry is spotted coming towards them, probably retreating. They're ordered in to help capture the rest of the territory and assist with mopping up the last of them.

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    It occurs to me that while I'm ordering the APCs away, I'm sort of leaving their attached infantry in a lurch as there are still Soviets present, just not many. But there's only a few infantry per APC so I have to turn them around to render assistance quickly.

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    Fixed. Dudes saved.

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    Cept for maybe this guy? Kill him ffs

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    Dasselkampf is kicked in the nuts by manages to survive miraculously!

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    Whether he was shot by a friendly or punched in the face so hard by Dasselkamp that his head exploded, I will never know.

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    Still, due to my negligence, some of the recon infantry are killed by the remaining enemies. Silly of me since there's so few of them they really can't afford to be wasted.

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    With that taken care of, time to attack! The dudes as Bespalovka have taken care of the retreating infantry to boot. There's naught left to do but root out the last of them and capture everything.

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    Cept for this guy. All his attached infantry were killed and the APC's engine died. Tracks appear to be okay. Hope it gets fixed soon.

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    Keypoint taken, but no enemies encountered. Well, onto the next one.

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    Nothing here either...there must have been an Eastern attack that completely bypassed us and is now running around our lines unopposed. Except for a few guarding squads, the Bespalovka guys are ordered North as well to ensure we don't end this battle with an enemy platoon behind us.

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    Yep. Karla was recaptured. That's another Operation Star improvement, by the way. If you have no troops in an area, you don't know if the enemy has captured it or not. Before you could sort of tell where the enemy was sometimes due to keypoints getting taken.

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    One place left. Crossroads. I hope they're there, coz if they're not, they're in enemy territory hiding and I won't be able to destroy them all before time runs out.

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    Finally!

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    Looks more like a squad than a platoon. Probably a flanking probe that managed to go all the way because I had nothing there. Which often happens, which is probably precisely why the AI usually does stuff like that.

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    They're very outnumbered, no chance.

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    Aaaand they retreated! Whole battlefield is mine. VICTORY!!!

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    Also known as "Draw" in the Ukraine, apparently. How could this conceivably be viewed as a draw? I took 1/4 their casualties (which actually strikes me as high, I don't think I lost that many people?) and I took all of their territory, one square of which is an operational key point that'll earn me some VP. Yeah, draw. Sure.

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    They deployed four platoons, three of which are completely lost. The surviving one's condition is such. Plus, its not even a platoon with anything cool, like artillery spotters or air spotters.

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    12 broken enemy platoons. Although that number is actually too high because I believe a few are routed, just as two (or possibly three) of my platoons are routed rather than broken. Still, its clear who is boss here. Nevertheless my victory points are 164 to the enemy's 290. I've got a ways to go before I'm considered the winner. But I just might pull it off and here's why:

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    It's time.

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    The Tiger's 88mm cannon against the Mathilda. Penetrates all sides, with all shells, from all ranges. Deal with it. Also for Garfunkel, the HEAT round becomes superior to the shittiest AP round at about 750 meters. It should be said I suppose that the APCR rounds that are SO MUCH BETTER than the HEAT were not available in abundance. Might explain why other games had HEAT rounds being superior. Could also be the ranges you were engaging at, or that the gun you were using was short barreled and couldn't get enough velocity for AP rounds to work well.
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  6. dextermorgan Augur

    dextermorgan
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  7. Yeesh Liturgist

    Yeesh
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    your future if you're not careful...
    I don't know. Since the Russians have been nice enough to refrain from using their tanks against you, wouldn't it be dishonorable not to show them the same kindness?
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  8. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
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    17,919
    [​IMG]

    :lol:

    Good read, thanks!
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  9. Cenobyte Tacticular Staff

    Cenobyte
    Joined:
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    Japan
    Excellent defense.

    Just hope that the game doesn't simulate the Tigers too realistically, otherwise expect heavy problems with maintenance and combat readiness ;)
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  10. overtenemy Scholar

    overtenemy
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    223
    Part 5: Surprise Butt Angreifen!

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    And we're finally on the attack. Since I can't seem to totally relinquish operational control back to the AI I'm forced to move them myself or risk not having them do anything. The tanks are moved in as far as possible and are already on the attack. Zucker and Zimmerman's platoons, the mauled ammunitionless and demoralized units that fled a keypoint during the first turn, have been resupplied. Frommholz will get his next turn probably. They will all take place in the battle, but will stay back because their morale is so bad they can't be trusted. Witnessed the immense victory I expect should bolster them though.

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    Less clear is what to do about this mess. I'm back to a traffic jam. Kohn and Ihn can't move forward at all, presumably do to the fact that they have maintenance going on a few of their APCs. Many of the other platoons have become too tired to move forward. I'm again literally incapable of moving any unit at all onto a key point - this time Bespalovka. My lack of mobility also means I cannot bring decisive numerical superiority to bear on Vah, who has taken up residence in Western Taranovka. I decide not to attack him, because it'd unentrench several units when I may be attacked, and because as always I have no offensive capability beyond exhausted infantry. No artillery for smoke, no APCs or tanks to advance with impunity and suppress. Even though Vah himself is not entrenched its an urban area and he'd have no problem inflicting disproportionate casualties on me. It's a conservative move, but I feel keeping my forces intact while I still face the unknown is the wiser move. The Tigers will be here soon anyway. I'm confident Vah himself will not attack sadly. He has a good view as you can see, like a recon platoon, and is aware that he would be very outgunned if he chose to sally forth unsupported.

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    And so my moves are like this. I swap Ihn with Ganter in case tanks attack Kohn. This will give him a few guns to work with. Buchwald swaps with Fuhrmann, who is exhausted and just needs a damn rest. Buchwald is in much better condition and should be in front for when I finally go on the offensive here. Also Michler, that cunt in the back who has been unable to move for the whole damn game, finally moves two spaces. Maybe in 4 more turns he'll see a fight.

    [​IMG]

    No attacks in the Northeast. I'm almost sad I couldn't wipe the floor with more infantry, but I know they still have two tank platoons there so I'm glad I don't have to deal with it. Back here, evidently one of the SSLAH platoons took it upon itself to initiate another attack Northeast, and some ballsy Soviet infantry platoon attacks US. Since these dudes haven't been into combat yet their composition is unknown to the enemy. The AI has no idea what's about to happen to it, here and elsewhere. If only they knew. To start, I go for the one in the middle that Valker is attacking.

    [​IMG]

    She sure is a beauty. Tigers are so awesome they increase bloom by 50%.

    [​IMG]

    The demoralized team. They're just going to sit there and suck on their thumbs because a bunch of their squads will immediately panic when the battle starts and run amok. Useless. They're there to observe us owning the shit out of the Reds, hopefully solving the morale problem.

    [​IMG]

    Remember this place? The site of the great defeat on the first turn. Well, we're back.

    [​IMG]

    Final deployment. A platoon holds the keypoint while the tanks attack the surrounded area from three directions. I'm not sure they actually deployed there, but it is the location of one of the platoons on the map. This flank secured, it should be trivial overrunning the rest of the map. I've got 13 tanks, 6 of which are Tigers.

    [​IMG]

    Tracers are in the air soon as the battle starts. Unentrenched infantry in the middle of a field. This is going to be fun to watch.

    [​IMG]

    But also this. Valentine, sitting still, not realizing a Tiger has already sighted it and is aiming.

    [​IMG]

    Doesn't go well for the infantry at all. Casualties mount already, and we're literally 13 seconds into the battle.

    [​IMG]

    Tiger nails it right in the turret.

    [​IMG]

    And what appears to be an HE round explodes behind it. I actually order the tanks that see it to cease fire so they stop wasting shells. I'm pretty sure its dead. Also although you haven't seen it yet because all of these are Paused screenshots, its night out sadly. Didn't check time during the turn. It's too bad, I was hoping to call Stukas and Fockewulves. Not that it's necessary. I didn't even bother waiting to shoot flares or anything. These guys are so outgunned it doesn't matter.

    [​IMG]

    With the Valentine dead, a Mathilda and Valentine are now spotted retreating from the area. I guess the reality of the situation became apparent to them.

    [​IMG]

    Mathilda begins taking shots but I don't see any holes. It might not be the Tigers hitting it, or the hit may have been glancing rather than direct, or else this thing would be fucked.

    [​IMG]

    There's a hole now I think, in the turret. Amazingly, it keeps returning fire, trying to kill the APCs that are accompanying the tanks.

    [​IMG]

    And another one but it keeps on truckin'. Just how it is in this game. Sometimes you kill a tank in one shot, sometimes...this happens.

    [​IMG]

    Finally two more rounds hit the turret and penetrate and I reckon that'll do it.

    [​IMG]

    Crew bails, dies.

    [​IMG]

    But the Valentine is running away. I set that tank platoon for an intercept course but visual is temporarily lost.

    [​IMG]

    Infantry are found in the way between them and the Valentine.

    [​IMG]

    This happens to them, although one of their machinegunners managed to kill a few of my dismounted recon infantry. Good for him I guess.

    Meanwhile...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This happens over and over to the poor bastards who were on the field. The other tanks platoons take them out in a jiffy, although I have to say the shell expenditure was larger than I would have liked.

    [​IMG]

    The Valentine is spotted again, and there's no escape this time. Perhaps realizing his position, he turns towards us, exposing only his strongest armor.

    [​IMG]

    Nevertheless a single round penetrates, kills the driver, and I guess some other shit as well because they abandon it.

    [​IMG]

    And with that, the enemy retreats. Game time elapsed - about 4 minutes.

    [​IMG]

    Draw. They suffered 10 times my casualties but yeah, draw. Something has to be up with that.

    [​IMG]

    First Valentine to be destroyed. Its engine still works and had the Soviets won the battle, it could actually be repaired and put back into service. You can see the damaged stuff in the bottom right of the screenshot. The game is incredibly detailed on vehicle damage. Looking at the penetration graphs in one battle long ago, I saw a 7.92 round actually penetrated a tank...because the round hit some pipes on the bottom rear. It didn't actually do any damage but the bullet got through.

    [​IMG]

    Mathilda sure took a few rounds. What is it with these fucking things? Anyway, two more Soviet platoons down - one infantry, one tank, for the cost of some ammunition and 4 recon soldiers. It should be said though I guess, the Soviet infantry platoon was probably badly hurt from an earlier battle Northeast.

    [​IMG]

    Back here both other battles are CANCELLED, must to my fury. I was confounded at first because on multiple occasions I have had units participate in different battles on the same turn. It's a flaw in the system, but one that is hard to correct. I believe what happened here is that the units that were attacking in the other battles participated in the battle I just did, and possibly you're only allowed to engage in one OFFENSIVe action per turn. It's sad, I would've planned otherwise had I known that, because now the Soviets get another turn with that fat keypoint still in their possession, fucking up my victory points further. I hope it isn't an issue later.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, I didn't show much of them, but the other tanks are all Panzer IIIs. Aka, not very good. They're no match for a T-34 generally and I'm guessing they won't fare well against a Mathilda either. Like the 50mm PaK anti-tank gun, they only penetrate well with APCR, but do they HAVE any ? I forgot to look. They might, considering this is an SS division and is exceptionally well-equipped. But I'll have to be careful to let the Tigers go on ahead to absorb the enemy's shells, coz they'll go straight through a Panzer Triple.

    Quick update, but well, there was only one battle instead of three, so.
    Elim and Phelot Brofist this.
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  11. Cenobyte Tacticular Staff

    Cenobyte
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    To which series belong your Panzer IIIs? The late model Panzer IIIs were actually not that bad and had some important improvements over the earlier models. Also, the Panzer III had one significant advantage: it was highly reliable. This was in stark contrast to most other German tank models, especially the late-war models, who were often introduced ahead of time or with minimal testing only. Its mobility and low profile also improved its tactical value, even though you're of course completely right that it was no match for the T34, at least not in a fair head-to-head fight.
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  12. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
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    I want more nut kicking and page 3!!!
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  13. dextermorgan Augur

    dextermorgan
    Joined:
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    :lol:

    This game looks lovely. Too bad I don't have the patience for stuff like this atm. I know, :decline: and all.
    Moar please.
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  14. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
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    Yeah, that was apparently the problem with the previous version of this series. Forget who ran that LP and what battle it was, but there was no point in playing the Germans since they so vastly outgunned the Soviets at the time. Forget how that one ended up.
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  15. overtenemy Scholar

    overtenemy
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    223
    IIRC they are ausf Ls, which are the only reason they have a chance at all. They have a longer barreled 50mm than predecessors and as such are something less than a complete joke to the opposition they'll be facing. Nevertheless, they aren't equipped to deal with Mathildas properly and as such I will endeavor to use them primarily against infantry and lighter tanks whenever possible. Maybe next update I'll post the rest of the relevant graphs to illustrate the point.

    Oh I see how it is, its not rape if its committed upon Russians. Your attitude is Fuhrer approved.

    Only other LP of this I ever saw here was mine. Its linked in the first post. The battle in question is Manstein's "backhand" against the Soviet forces that overextended into Kharkov. Of course the game is only company level and only simulates a small portion of it. You are correct that playing as the Germans was far too easy, just as I assume playing as the Russians during Operation Star would be far too easy. But as you can see in the original I played the Russians and got destroyed, though its a little embarrassing looking back at it. I was new to playing both Soviets and defense back then. I'd do much better now. At any rate, the Germans in my opinion do not have an advantage in this scenario despite the technological edge of the Tigers. They show up turn 5 (which is early) but its long enough for the Soviets to mop the floor in the North with their armor. What happened with me getting the cease fire in that one battle was miraculous. A retreat then, combined with more aggressive action by the Soviet recon platoons would have left me in a very bad way, especially if the Soviets had many buildings to hide in by the time I'd managed to counterattack with Tigers. Remember that with molotov cocktails the average Soviet infantry platoon is vastly superior in anti-tank capability to Kraut, which is an issue that haunted me during those turns. This was closer run than it appeared, and trust me, given the Soviet resources arrayed against me I'd have curbstomped myself, though perhaps its not as bad as the disparity in the original campaigns.
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  16. Yeesh Liturgist

    Yeesh
    Joined:
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    Location:
    your future if you're not careful...
    The only rape that matters is that of a beleaguered codexian brutally buggered by binaries. But I won't give up, there's always a chance something terrible will happen when you least expect it. That's the magic of life.
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  17. overtenemy Scholar

    overtenemy
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    223
    Oh, I'm here. I played the turn about a week and a half ago but it's going to be sort of a big update so I've been putting off writing it. A little of is done and I've been sort of doing it piecemeal but one of these days I'll probably just sit down and finish it. Additionally, since it's going to be a large update this probably ought to be bumped to page triple.
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  18. Cenobyte Tacticular Staff

    Cenobyte
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    Yeah, then onwards to page 3 it is!
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  19. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
    Joined:
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    17,919
    Page 3
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  20. Occasionally Fatal Arbiter

    Occasionally Fatal
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    Treading water, but at least it's warm
    BUMPS FOR THE BUMP GOD.
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  21. Occasionally Fatal Arbiter

    Occasionally Fatal
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    Treading water, but at least it's warm
    And also a hump.
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  22. Occasionally Fatal Arbiter

    Occasionally Fatal
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Treading water, but at least it's warm
    To get over the hump. That is this page.

    Fake Edit: locked and loaded for page 3, captain. :salute:
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