Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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"A new recipe for the roleplaying game formula" - Guido Henkel

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by LESS T_T, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. HoboForEternitygender: ⚧ Magister

    HoboForEternity
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    this is what happen when almost a decade of inactivity gets you. you get rusty, your sense gets dull, you become a shadow of yourself.
     
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  2. Somberlaingender: ⚧ Arcane Zionist Agent

    Somberlain
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    Codex nerds BTFO

    From Tim Cain's geometric shapes and Arnold Hendrick's tablets and MMOs to Guido Henkel's Skyrim praise or JVC's mobile game shenanigans, all the classic and prestigious devs of old seem to get with the times :mixedemotions:
     
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  3. nikolokolusgender: ⚧ Magister

    nikolokolus
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    I think Guido might be right about Skyrim, but not for the reasons he gives.

    A lot of PnP campaigns I've played in are a lot like Skyrim: GM cooks up some half-baked "save the world" bullshit metaplot. Players rebel and say, "fuck this, let's go off over here, kill everyone and take their shit!" GM gets mad and eventually tries to railroad the players back on track, at which point most of the players start to get bored and everything grinds to a halt half-way through. Eventually optimism takes hold and a new "totally different" (but exactly the same) game starts up. Pattern repeats ad nauseum ad infinitum.
     
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  4. Trojan_genericgender: ⚧ Magister

    Trojan_generic
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    Is Arnold Hendrick even alive anymore? All I find on the net is the excellent Codex interview.
     
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  5. Great Deceivergender: ⚧ Arcane

    Great Deceiver
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    The article in the OP was the biggest bait & switch I can remember reading in recent memory.

    It goes from :greatjob: to :brodex: to :abyssgazer:in one sentence.
     
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  6. Night Goatgender: ⚧ The Immovable Autism Patron No Fun Allowed

    Night Goat
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014
    Doing so would take three hours:

     
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  7. Stavrophoregender: ⚧ Learned

    Stavrophore
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    Skyrim vs old blobbers -both are LARPing galore. At least in skyrim you are larping with better graphics, not having to constantly use your fucking imagination for every shitty 2D 8bit sprite.
     
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  8. buru5gender: ⚧ Very Grumpy Dragon Patron

    buru5
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    No. You just have no imagination because you're a might-as-well-be-still-birth retard who still sucks mommy's teet.
     
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  9. Iznaliugender: ⚧ Arbiter

    Iznaliu
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    Why did you feel the need to defecate here?
     
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  10. Blackmillgender: ⚧ Learned

    Blackmill
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    Hmm, he's got some interesting opinions on Skyrim, but I absolutely agree that more effort should be made on constructing a "dungeon master" AI. That said, depending on the goal of the AI (i.e. when the AI, or a subroutine of it, is an adversary to the player), it may need to update it's parameterization based on the player's choices. I'm not sure the computation required in these updates could be performed on consoles, and while that doesn't affect me, I doubt many game developers would be willing to lose such a large consumer base.
     
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  11. Dorateengender: ⚧ Arcane

    Dorateen
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    If the goal is to make an AI that is adversarial to the player(s), go right ahead. But traditionally, that is not the directive of the Dungeon Master, in its original conception. The Dungeon Master is an arbiter of rules, a referee. Above all, he should be impartial. And while there are many anecdotes about "killer DMs", which add to the mystique of the hobby, the tabletop role-playing game is meant to be a co-operative experience. There is a social contract that exists between the players and DM in a gaming group.

    Also, the game master is not a storyteller, but a world designer. It is his purpose to set up locations, populated with NPCs to interact with, and oversee running the campaign. The players are the ones tasked to forge their own story about their characters.

    That's why in the computer medium, the adventures that work best are those where the number-crunching and details of mechanics are handled in the background by a neutral software program, with the least amount of intrusion into gameplay by the developer.
     
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  12. Iznaliugender: ⚧ Arbiter

    Iznaliu
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    I think that is a modern ideological trapping.
     
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  13. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    You could probably write an article about the state of RPGs in 2005, but now? For every thing you write that "RPGs don't do anymore" there are likely several small & indie RPGs doing exactly that.

    Mark my words, his article will - once again - read like "I ignore small studios and really wish Bethesda, CD Projekt or BioWare would hire me to make a AAA RPG".
     
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  14. adrix89gender: ⚧ Learned

    adrix89
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    If we are talking about if RPG should be more like Sandbox Simulations I going to argue that it's a YES.

    The thing about RPG is the eternal "what is a RPG?", RPG is a term that represents a legacy of influences and tropes from its wargaming roots to Dungeons & Dragons tabletop to its adaption on a computer under the CRPG umbrella and so on.
    It has very little to do with "Role Play", What is actual "roleplay"? Its not a nice thing to acknowledge but its to play pretend, we have to be honest those LARPs are doing actual roleplay even if its far from our CRPG sensibilities.
    Roleplay is not about choices and its not about consequences and its not about combat or skills. Its acting in a world, its collaborative storytelling with the GM with the system used as a moderator so that the players don't pull bullshit on each other and keep things organized and moving along.
    Not you might say I don't need your stinking "acting", who cares if its not roleplay? I want my thing that is CRPGs!
    And you are right, you don't need to act, people go on about character builds all day long but the fact that they optimize for the best and treat that like some achievement means they don't really care what the characters represent, and even if they did it would be pointless since the games themselves would not be about that since they cannot act. All you would get at best would be some shitty choices and a gimped character that can't complete the game.

    Now I am going to get to my main point, the thing is playing pretend is not simple at all! We can do it because we are humans! And its the reason why no computer RPGs have been about roleplay. The only case where it could happen is in a Sandbox MMORPG or the old MUDs or other freeform multiplayer games. And even then the experience would be limited compared to PnP RPGs.

    So here is THE question, Why is that? Why can't we have that kind of experience on a computer game?
    The secret lies in something the GM has,the player have and everyone who writes fictional books.
    It is the Representation of The World, the personal view of the world.

    When a writer writers a fictional book he uses the experience he has of our real world and changes a few things but works roughly the same. It's why there is the advice to write about the subjects you know about from personal experience, because only through experience can you write with any kind of depth.
    In a Tabletop RPG you add some rules and lore to change that real life representation of the world into the fictional one, but the original still works in the background. This is why merle adapting a RPG system to a computer no matter how complex and detailed is pointless because it does not have the original representation of the world.
    The Real World is an objective system that follows its own logic rigorously, a human's experience might know some parts of it and other parts might be faulty, science has yet to understand its full logic, especially of those meatbag creatures called humans with all their psychology,behavior, society and culture. But we know plenty enough.

    So what are Sandbox Simulations? It's simple, it's creating a Representation of the World from scratch, every action, every system, every AI, every interaction, every consequence painstakingly coded to give a world its own logic, a simulated fictional world.
    Of course there would be some cheats and abstractions built into the system because its impossible to follow the complexity of the Real World logic. But like human experience we can get close enough.

    The more in depth you can make the Representation of the World the more you can the experience of the game like a fantasy book. You can live in a fantasy world. It is not exactly roleplay because nobody is forcing you to act and its not exactly a story either.
    It can still have its goals,challenge and systems as a game to make it a fun experience.
    To some extent games already have their own Representation of the World. A classic example is The Sims where everything is simplistic actions and progress bars, its simple but it works.
    Another example is Crusader Kings where every expansion continuous to refine it's Representation of the World with new systems, actions and story snippets.

    This is what I consider RPGs can do in the future.
     
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  15. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Yes, some people play D&D to experience an complex "representation of the world" - but others just dungeon-crawl and kill shit.

    Baldur's Gate 2 may look like the ultimate RPG experience, but it's provably crap for people who only play Vampire, Traveller or Cthulhu. There's no "TR00 RPG EXPERIENCE".
     
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