Fallout Is Fallout the best game of all time?

[Serus]

Fallout scratches the itch of a lot of people here: it's very much a stat based RPG in the traditional sense, your character's stats determine the outcome of various actions, and there are a lot of different approaches possible to most situations based on your character's stats.

But while that can be fun and interesting in a way, it also exposes the biggest flaw with purely stat driven gameplay: it's quite dull. Since it's the character's stats and not the player's skills that determine the outcomes, the resulting gameplay is pretty much a series of stat checks. There are almost no actual tactics needed in combat, it's just a comparison of your skills/perks/weapons vs the enemy (an abstract stat check). Likewise, in dialogue, it's a bunch of stat checks, and so on. There is a little bit of active gameplay due to environment interactivity, but that's about it.

So add to that the modestly sized maps with loading zones, the outdated graphics (even back in the day), the simplistic story (though a very cool setting), and the overall result isn't as great as people will try to have you believe here. Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun game, and one of my all-time favorites, but let's not get carried away.

The bolded part is retarded.. You are literally saying that stat based gameplay is inherently dull. Which means one and one thing only - that you find stat based games dull. That's a preference not a fact nor an argument.
Combat in fallout might be "dull" in a manner of speaking - yes but that has nothing to do with the gameplay being stat driven (nor are all stat driven crpg combat systems inherently "dull"). It has everything with there only being one controllable character and relatively few options at player's disposal.

The story (not setting) in Fallout 1 is silly and cliche as you say in another post - you are right about that part.

 

[Serus]

Sheeeit it ain't even the best game out that year

There are many good games released that year, out of curiosity which one(s) is(are) better?
Dungoen Keeper, Blood, Imperialism, Myth 1, or something else ?

 

[FeelTheRads]

The bolded part is retarded.

Why are RPGs like RPGs??????

 

[Trashos]

Sorry, man, but you are looking at it through pink goggles and possible conflating story with setting/lore. I love the setting and the lore, it is brilliant, but the story itself is borderline retarded. Think about it, your vault is on the verge of losing water, the most valuable thing in the world from the survival perspective. So what do they do? Send out one dude, and not a large team as would've been done in real life. To do what? Find an alternate water source or some resources to build/engineer a new system? This would be logical, but no, to send you looking for the exact part, which probability wise is probably the worst thing to do. The only places that would have them are other vaults, and since your vault can't know that they are all destroyed by now, the logical assumption would be that the other vaults would be in the same situation as them, either needed their own water chip, or it being broken down as well.

So then, while looking for it, you wander around, and finally come across some "evil" dude putting together an army of super duper evil mutants. Cliche 101.

You may have missed the themes about what a human being really is, and fear of evolution and the unknown (which evolution is part of) vs longing for it. On one hand you have the Overseer who

Spoiler

kicks you out of the Vault at the end because you got tainted,

and on the other hand you have the Master who

Spoiler

is actively trying to make humans evolve.

I 'd say that's a kickass theme, explored from both sides.

The water chip gimmick was so spectacularly successful that it keeps coming back throughout the series. Eg, the GECK in FO2 plays exactly the same role. Sure, it's a mcguffin, but it's one of the most successful mcguffins of all time, and that's all that was needed here to tie everything together.

 

[ItsChon]

Underrail is a nice indie game, but the name of its very serious flaw is Deep Caverns.

You are right and glad to find someone who has the balls to criticize underrail. Deeps caverns had absolutely shitty design .Everything else was incline although.

Oh sure, I can definitely see the annoying aspects of the Deep Cavern which is a shame as I think a large part of it could have been alleviated if some changes had be made. Despite that, I don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be and its flaws are magnified because of how long it can take to finish that part of the game without any prior knowledge/walk through. But other than the Deep Caverns and the walking speed, I'm not sure what gripes can really be made regarding the game? He claimed that FO did everything better than Underrail in terms of gameplay, and that's clearly hyperbolic at best, and biased at worst.

 

[Roqua]

It's called an SMG. Personally I could kill the raiders without save scumming probably 4/5 times. Obviously sometimes you get hit with a crit that can't be helped.




Also fallout doesn't have shitty respawning enemies you need you kill over and over. *cough* DEEP CAVERNS

You are literally just saying words. Its like saying you can clear the hardest raid in wow solo. I'm starting to think people actually never played FO and just pretend they did. Does an SMG give you a 1k HP damage shield? If not you are wrong.

I'd like to see a video of your super magic skills though.​

Tandi doesn’t bang you and the gang is very killable if you’ve been to junktown/ maybe the Hub. Metal armor, psycho, smg, and smart use of the map.

You certainly can fuck Tandi over and over and over with the common patch people use for FO. FixFO or whatever its called.

And saying going back later with more levels and better equipment to win isn't what I said. If fact, I said it was an option in what you replied to.

Also, you have an SMG when you go there that you get from the vault you are in while the girl get kidnapped. Also a rifle. And a leather jacket.

But I'd still like to see you go back just when you have metal armor and an SMG and kill the whole camp without reloading.

Its just more words from people trying to look cool. Lets see a video of anyone doing it that shows the character screen before and the relevant tabs to show you aren't a cheating your ass off, that starts recording from entrance until the whole map is dead. You may get it after hours of retries until you get lucky. And it would require a weird build built specifically for it, that requires XP scumming from other sources like pickpocketing to get to a high enough level. Its all just nonsense. People saying words.

Personally, I kill them all for kidnapping Tandy because I'm a fucking hero and I can. You guys say words and more words with as much evidence as someone claiming they can fly or solo raids, etc.

 

[Sranchammer]

Sheeeit it ain't even the best game out that year

There are many good games released that year, out of curiosity which one(s) is(are) better?
Dungoen Keeper, Blood, Imperialism, Myth 1, or something else ?

Imperialism holds a special place in my heart but Goldeneye definitely changed everything. For good or for ill. 1997 was a great year for PC and consoles

 

[Micormic]

It's called an SMG. Personally I could kill the raiders without save scumming probably 4/5 times. Obviously sometimes you get hit with a crit that can't be helped.




Also fallout doesn't have shitty respawning enemies you need you kill over and over. *cough* DEEP CAVERNS

You are literally just saying words. Its like saying you can clear the hardest raid in wow solo. I'm starting to think people actually never played FO and just pretend they did. Does an SMG give you a 1k HP damage shield? If not you are wrong.

I'd like to see a video of your super magic skills though.​

Find me a full screen recorder that will work with a windows 95 game and I'll have a video up within an hour.

​

 

[Roqua]

It's called an SMG. Personally I could kill the raiders without save scumming probably 4/5 times. Obviously sometimes you get hit with a crit that can't be helped.




Also fallout doesn't have shitty respawning enemies you need you kill over and over. *cough* DEEP CAVERNS

You are literally just saying words. Its like saying you can clear the hardest raid in wow solo. I'm starting to think people actually never played FO and just pretend they did. Does an SMG give you a 1k HP damage shield? If not you are wrong.

I'd like to see a video of your super magic skills though.​

Find me a full screen recorder that will work with a windows 95 game and I'll have a video up within an hour.

​

No you won't. I don't know shit about video recorders or why someone would record half a screen or a quarter screen instead of full screen. If you have Nvidia it comes included with one.

Sanity, reality, math, and science are on my side. All your side has is words. Now you are claiming my side needs to add video recording searching for other people onto our list of sanity, reality, math, and science? That's just silly.

 

[Micormic]

It's called an SMG. Personally I could kill the raiders without save scumming probably 4/5 times. Obviously sometimes you get hit with a crit that can't be helped.




Also fallout doesn't have shitty respawning enemies you need you kill over and over. *cough* DEEP CAVERNS

You are literally just saying words. Its like saying you can clear the hardest raid in wow solo. I'm starting to think people actually never played FO and just pretend they did. Does an SMG give you a 1k HP damage shield? If not you are wrong.

I'd like to see a video of your super magic skills though.​

Find me a full screen recorder that will work with a windows 95 game and I'll have a video up within an hour.

​

No you won't. I don't know shit about video recorders or why someone would record half a screen or a quarter screen instead of full screen. If you have Nvidia it comes included with one.

Sanity, reality, math, and science are on my side. All your side has is words. Now you are claiming my side needs to add video recording searching for other people onto our list of sanity, reality, math, and science? That's just silly.

I like you more then most people do but really if you're trying to tell me it's not possible to clear the raiders with the smg you get from vault 15 you just suck at games period.




doh use brain hide behind walls use burst most hur durr

 

[Roqua]

I like you more then most people do but really if you're trying to tell me it's not possible to clear the raiders with the smg you get from vault 15 you just suck at games period.




doh use brain hide behind walls use burst most hur durr

I never said you couldn't kill them with the SMG or any other weapon. I kill the shit out of them every time I play. I said, am still saying, and will always say without video proof otherwise it is impossible to kill all of them when you go to rescue Tandy without saving scumming. Period. Why? Math, science, sanity, and reality.

Do you not remember how this all started? Are you guys trying to give me a brain hemorrhage? The argument started as and has always been able save scumming.

I like you too. But in this I am 100% right.

 

[Sigourn]

Subjective question, so here's my subjective answer: no. Vagrant Story is much better.

 

[MRY]

Sorry, man, but you are looking at it through pink goggles and possible conflating story with setting/lore. I love the setting and the lore, it is brilliant, but the story itself is borderline retarded. Think about it, your vault is on the verge of losing water, the most valuable thing in the world from the survival perspective. So what do they do? Send out one dude, and not a large team as would've been done in real life. To do what? Find an alternate water source or some resources to build/engineer a new system? This would be logical, but no, to send you looking for the exact part, which probability wise is probably the worst thing to do. The only places that would have them are other vaults, and since your vault can't know that they are all destroyed by now, the logical assumption would be that the other vaults would be in the same situation as them, either needed their own water chip, or it being broken down as well.

So then, while looking for it, you wander around, and finally come across some "evil" dude putting together an army of super duper evil mutants. Cliche 101.

You may have missed the themes about what a human being really is, and fear of evolution and the unknown (which evolution is part of) vs longing for it. On one hand you have the Overseer who

Spoiler

kicks you out of the Vault at the end because you got tainted,

and on the other hand you have the Master who

Spoiler

is actively trying to make humans evolve.

I 'd say that's a kickass theme, explored from both sides.

The water chip gimmick was so spectacularly successful that it keeps coming back throughout the series. Eg, the GECK in FO2 plays exactly the same role. Sure, it's a mcguffin, but it's one of the most successful mcguffins of all time, and that's all that was needed here to tie everything together.

A few quick things:
(1) "our vault is on the verge of losing water, the most valuable thing in the world" -- The theme is that the most valuable thing in the world to those in the Vault is that they are not "in the world." Their isolation is the most valuable thing. As Trashos points out, a major theme is how humanity responds to extreme circumstances. You see a variety of different responses, with the Master (maintain ~human ~civilization indefinitely) and the Overseer (maintain human civilization as long as possible) at two ends of a spectrum. Other factions fall somewhere between.

(2) The water chip is nothing short of brilliant. It simultaneously (a) calls back to Wasteland (which starts with the water pump quest); (b) provides a problem that actually can be solved by one person; (c) creates a problem that has other potential solutions (like the Water Merchants); (d) is 100% thematic with the setting. Consider other McGuffins in RPGs (contracts in DA:O, map pieces in KOTOR, a genie lamp in Darksun (am I remembering right?), a buncha money in Baldur's Gate 2, crystals in Final Fantasy II/4, etc., etc.) that don't even tie to the thematic meaning of that world. Water chip is Ultima IV level great in that regard.

(3) The Master's plot is great. The FEV is "literally" what metaphorically is happening to the protagonist. The fact that you can beat the Master with dialogue in a way that proves he was not an "evil dude" making an "army of super duper evil mutants" is the whole thing. Fallout has a story that is 100% schlock tropes that are mostly tricks being played on the audience. You are literally the chosen one (the one who was chosen), you are practically on a Grail quest, and your enemy is basically Sauron with his orcs. Except that you aren't special, the grail doesn't bring moral healing, and Sauron was only trying to save the elves from extinction by turning them into orcs.

 

[Micormic]

I like you more then most people do but really if you're trying to tell me it's not possible to clear the raiders with the smg you get from vault 15 you just suck at games period.




doh use brain hide behind walls use burst most hur durr

I never said you couldn't kill them with the SMG or any other weapon. I kill the shit out of them every time I play. I said, am still saying, and will always say without video proof otherwise it is impossible to kill all of them when you go to rescue Tandy without saving scumming. Period. Why? Math, science, sanity, and reality.

Do you not remember how this all started? Are you guys trying to give me a brain hemorrhage? The argument started as and has always been able save scumming.

I like you too. But in this I am 100% right.

I actually just downloaded some obs shit which i found in a few minutes but when i record fallout 1/2 there's no colours and you cant see anything so once i figure it out i'll record and show you because very rarely do I die killing the raiders in fallout 1, like i said 4/5 times or even more hten that depending if a raider with a deagle gets a crit I'll do it without dying.




Now if we were talking about the bridge guards in shrouded hills, the goomba with the 2 ogres, I don't think I've ever killed those guys without reloading at least 10 times.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I never said you couldn't kill them with the SMG or any other weapon. I kill the shit out of them every time I play. I said, am still saying, and will always say without video proof otherwise it is impossible to kill all of them when you go to rescue Tandy without saving scumming. Period. Why? Math, science, sanity, and reality.

Do you not remember how this all started? Are you guys trying to give me a brain hemorrhage? The argument started as and has always been able save scumming.

I like you too. But in this I am 100% right.

So much autistic screeching because someone might have done something better than you.

And still you're failing to explain how not being able to save would have made this any better.

If your claim is that fight is impossible without save-scumming at a certain point in the game, then it means the only solution is to come back later.
I would've understood if you said you could instead make use of some consumables or tactics or whatever, but it isn't worth it if you can just save-scum. But if it's MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE I don't get it how not being able to save makes it better.

You could say that it makes the game itself more difficult, which would be a good thing, since if you can't beat them at the beginning you don't get all the loot and XP so early. But that's another thing, I'd say.

 

[Master]

I like you more then most people do but really if you're trying to tell me it's not possible to clear the raiders with the smg you get from vault 15 you just suck at games period.




doh use brain hide behind walls use burst most hur durr

I never said you couldn't kill them with the SMG or any other weapon. I kill the shit out of them every time I play. I said, am still saying, and will always say without video proof otherwise it is impossible to kill all of them when you go to rescue Tandy without saving scumming. Period. Why? Math, science, sanity, and reality.

Do you not remember how this all started? Are you guys trying to give me a brain hemorrhage? The argument started as and has always been able save scumming.

I like you too. But in this I am 100% right.

But... did you kill all the army, my son?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Contenders if talking about games in general (and I'll keep it PC, although I have a couple of console games I think are definitely contenders)

[...]
UFO Defense

I have mixed feelings about the other ones but this one is legendary, such a mix of tactics, management with a touch of RPG elements (character progression).
Nothing is perfect but it's a damn amazing game.

My list would probably be :
UFO
Heroes of Might & Magic 2
Wizardry 8

They all have their flaws but i spent an awful lot of time playing or replaying them.

Of course, Fallout is a great classic and its flaws are well known but what's the best game anyway ? Does it even exist or is it just a concept ? I'm not sure i can even pick the best game for myself, let alone THE best game for everyone ...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Sorry, man, but you are looking at it through pink goggles and possible conflating story with setting/lore. I love the setting and the lore, it is brilliant, but the story itself is borderline retarded. Think about it, your vault is on the verge of losing water, the most valuable thing in the world from the survival perspective. So what do they do? Send out one dude, and not a large team as would've been done in real life. To do what? Find an alternate water source or some resources to build/engineer a new system? This would be logical, but no, to send you looking for the exact part, which probability wise is probably the worst thing to do. The only places that would have them are other vaults, and since your vault can't know that they are all destroyed by now, the logical assumption would be that the other vaults would be in the same situation as them, either needed their own water chip, or it being broken down as well.

So then, while looking for it, you wander around, and finally come across some "evil" dude putting together an army of super duper evil mutants. Cliche 101.

There were supposed to be more water chips as surplus parts (Vault 13's were sent to Vault City/Vault 8 instead), presumably other vaults would be willing to part with one or a couple in exchange for favors.

It would make more sense to send a team instead of a lone guy with a shitty weapon, but videogames.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I recall separating and ambushing the raiders at vault 15 in their tents or on isolated parts of the map. Perfectly doable with starting equips + crits. But I always play a min/maxed Gifted build.

 

[Farewell into the night]

No, it's not. It's one of the best.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I like to think that they sent other people after you to look for the water chip, maybe even a better equipped team, otherwise it really is extremely stupid that they'd just give up and die if you don't return (cause you died to a radscorpion or something).

 

[Bocian]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Why_Fallout_3_is_the_greatest_game_of_all_time

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The bolded part is retarded.. You are literally saying that stat based gameplay is inherently dull. Which means one and one thing only - that you find stat based games dull. That's a preference not a fact nor an argument.

No, this is not really subjective in any way. Stat-based gameplay is objectively dull compared to player skill-based gameplay. This is self-evident, since stat-based gameplay is resolved via stat-checks, while skill-based gameplay is resolved via active player participation.

You may have missed the themes about what a human being really is, and fear of evolution and the unknown (which evolution is part of) vs longing for it. On one hand you have the Overseer who

Spoiler

kicks you out of the Vault at the end because you got tainted,

and on the other hand you have the Master who

Spoiler

is actively trying to make humans evolve.

I 'd say that's a kickass theme, explored from both sides.

A few quick things:
(1) "our vault is on the verge of losing water, the most valuable thing in the world" -- The theme is that the most valuable thing in the world to those in the Vault is that they are not "in the world." Their isolation is the most valuable thing. As Trashos points out, a major theme is how humanity responds to extreme circumstances. You see a variety of different responses, with the Master (maintain ~human ~civilization indefinitely) and the Overseer (maintain human civilization as long as possible) at two ends of a spectrum. Other factions fall somewhere between.

(2) The water chip is nothing short of brilliant. It simultaneously (a) calls back to Wasteland (which starts with the water pump quest); (b) provides a problem that actually can be solved by one person; (c) creates a problem that has other potential solutions (like the Water Merchants); (d) is 100% thematic with the setting. Consider other McGuffins in RPGs (contracts in DA:O, map pieces in KOTOR, a genie lamp in Darksun (am I remembering right?), a buncha money in Baldur's Gate 2, crystals in Final Fantasy II/4, etc., etc.) that don't even tie to the thematic meaning of that world. Water chip is Ultima IV level great in that regard.

(3) The Master's plot is great. The FEV is "literally" what metaphorically is happening to the protagonist. The fact that you can beat the Master with dialogue in a way that proves he was not an "evil dude" making an "army of super duper evil mutants" is the whole thing. Fallout has a story that is 100% schlock tropes that are mostly tricks being played on the audience. You are literally the chosen one (the one who was chosen), you are practically on a Grail quest, and your enemy is basically Sauron with his orcs. Except that you aren't special, the grail doesn't bring moral healing, and Sauron was only trying to save the elves from extinction by turning them into orcs.

You guys are reaching. In any kind of relatively complex set up, you can find some underlying themes if you look hard enough, after all we all deal with the same things as part of the human condition. But at the end of the day, Fallout had a crappy, fairly illogical, and cliched story.

 

[TemplarGR]

Nope best game of all time is still 1993 xcom. Although i'd put rimworld and ck2 as close contender.

1993 XCOM had nothing on XCOM Apocalypse, the BEST Xcom game by a wide margin. Every true XCOM connaisseur knows that. Apocalypse was so far ahead of its time it still hasn't been surpassed to this day. Still waiting for a successor.

 

[Mortmal]

Nope best game of all time is still 1993 xcom. Although i'd put rimworld and ck2 as close contender.

1993 XCOM had nothing on XCOM Apocalypse, the BEST Xcom game by a wide margin. Every true XCOM connaisseur knows that. Apocalypse was so far ahead of its time it still hasn't been surpassed to this day. Still waiting for a successor.

Maybe but did it had on you the same emotional impact than discovering the first xcom and playing it for the very first time ?