Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[AwesomeButton]

Wow, Josh just reshared my tweet again. Bracing for more follows and a jump in visitors on the site. :D

I tweeted to Obsidian take a look, yesterday, but they didnt retweeted your post

They followed me though. The dev updates aren't that interesting to players, but I want to add new editable objects soon, and I hope that will be more interesting.

are you the one writing the tweets?

Yep, I'm the one writing everything and designing everything related to the editor. I'm the whole team

 

[Sentinel]

Wow, Josh just reshared my tweet again. Bracing for more follows and a jump in visitors on the site. :D

I tweeted to Obsidian take a look, yesterday, but they didnt retweeted your post

They followed me though. The dev updates aren't that interesting to players, but I want to add new editable objects soon, and I hope that will be more interesting.

are you the one writing the tweets?

Yep, I'm the one writing everything and designing everything related to the editor. I'm the whole team

Was just wondering if you actually thought PoE2 was "fantastic".

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

...Only "complex" companion quest from PoE 1 that I can think of is Zahua's one

To be fair, you need to have very high IQ to understand the complexity of Pillars 1 companion quests. The sheer terror and intensity of Durance and Grieving Mother, aka, talk to me to advance my quest, then to talk to me more. The mystery and thrill of Eder's quest, talk to this guy then to this guy and then to another guy. The shock and devilish twist when Aloth, a weirdo faggot wizard in fact did turned out to be a weirdo faggot wizard. The emotional impact of Sagani's quest when she finally found some fella who you din't give a slightest amount of fuck about.

It was all so captivating, so touching, so bold. But modern audience cannot handle such sophisticated storytelling, so they've had to dumb it down in Deadfire, which is a real shame.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Wow, Josh just reshared my tweet again. Bracing for more follows and a jump in visitors on the site. :D

I tweeted to Obsidian take a look, yesterday, but they didnt retweeted your post

They followed me though. The dev updates aren't that interesting to players, but I want to add new editable objects soon, and I hope that will be more interesting.

are you the one writing the tweets?

Yep, I'm the one writing everything and designing everything related to the editor. I'm the whole team

Was just wondering if you actually thought PoE2 was "fantastic".

Yes! My impression posted on May 9 after playing for a few hours is the Sacred Word of God and thus infallible.
Also, "here's the modding tool I wrote for this game which I haven't played yet but is probably mediocre according to the standards of a bunch of grognards. Enjoy!" doesn't sound like something that will provoke much interest.

 

[Sentinel]

Yes, because, as we all know, a requisite for releasing a mod is giving your opinion & praising the game as the next coming of christ in an introductory text.

 

[fantadomat]

dese companion quests i swear

go to place x talk to goy
go to place y talk to guy
go to place z talk to gay

quest complete

(this time serafen)

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

I am sure that it sold very well,all those 120,000 sold copies.

 

[Lacrymas]

Also, "here's the modding tool I wrote for this game which I haven't played yet but is probably mediocre according to the standards of a bunch of grognards. Enjoy!" doesn't sound like something that will provoke much interest.

It kind of does. Much more eye-catching, creative and full of potential for drama.

Also, "very expensive to implement PoE1 companion quests"... Bitch, they were barely quests at all.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yes, because, as we all know, a requisite for releasing a mod is giving your opinion & praising the game as the next coming of christ in an introductory text.

Working on a modding tool since before the game is released says enough about whether I think it needs modding to be better.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Feargus you master negotiator. I hope this poor singer got paid with something more than just royalties on this massive traffic.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Also, "here's the modding tool I wrote for this game which I haven't played yet but is probably mediocre according to the standards of a bunch of grognards. Enjoy!" doesn't sound like something that will provoke much interest.

It kind of does. Much more eye-catching, creative and full of potential for drama.

Also, "very expensive to implement PoE1 companion quests"... Bitch, they were barely quests at all.

You tend to overestimate how much people care about your opinion.

 

[FreeKaner]

Feargus you master negotiator. I hope this poor singer got paid with something more than just royalties on this massive traffic.

This is just sad.

 

[Lacrymas]

You tend to overestimate how much people care about your opinion.

I don't know what you mean by that. Also, you tend to underestimate the value of drama and polemics in contests of popularity. I guarantee you'll get more general public interest out of the "here's the modding tool I wrote for this game which I haven't played yet but is probably mediocre according to the standards of a bunch of grognards. Enjoy!" statement than your modding, however incline it might be.

 

[Trashos]

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

Er... what is it that made PoE1 companion quests so expensive to implement? They didn't look like expensive quests to me.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You tend to overestimate how much people care about your opinion.

You tend to underestimate the value of drama and polemics in contests of popularity. I guarantee you'll get more general public interest out of the "here's the modding tool I wrote for this game which I haven't played yet but is probably mediocre according to the standards of a bunch of grognards. Enjoy!" statement than your modding, however incline it might be.

It does not work like that. If you imagine that by badmouthing the game I'll attract sympathy from its fans who are willing to mod it, you are delusional. If you fling shit at somebody, he's not going to answer with flinging cupcakes back at you.

A mod interests a subset of the people who play the game. A modding tool interests a subset of people who are doing modding for the game, which is even fewer people.

The tool can't generate much drama by itself.

There is barely any interest in it btw, if we are looking at twitter. The site has a little over 550 unique visitors since 27 April. The Deadfire Nexus isn't itself very active either. You don't see neither on the Nexus, nor on Obsidian's forums single people or groups of people working on big overhaul and rebalance mods. I think it's just too early for that, but it may also be because this isn't this kind of community.

I think most people are still playing the game and/or waiting for patches. You can make crazy stuff by modding Deadfire's data though, provided you know what you want to achieve. You can add completely new classes, with completely unique abilities. But in order to know what you want to achieve, and in order to make a big mod, where such a tool would be most useful, you have to have a good knowledge of the game and its rules, so you know what you want to rebalance and change. This knowledge takes time playing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

Er... what is it that made PoE1 companion so expensive to implement? They didn't look like expensive quests to me.

How expensive was the saving of Dynaheir quest? I think on one side present day players have too high expectations, and on the other side, development has gotten crazy expensive.

 

[Trashos]

How expensive was the saving of Dynaheir quest? I think on one side present day players have too high expectations, and on the other side, development has gotten crazy expensive.

I can see how a quest like "I put a spell on you" in New Vegas is expensive or the quests in Wasteland 2 where there are major in-game changes after their conclusion are expensive (for all the complaints W2 is getting, it has top-notch in-game reactivity). Or the PST companion quests, which were actually a huge part of the game itself. For PoE1 companion quests, I don't see it at all.

 

[Cross]

dese companion quests i swear

go to place x talk to goy
go to place y talk to guy
go to place z talk to gay

quest complete

(this time serafen)

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

Sounds like something is seriously rotten with the way Obsidian manages their games for a simple companion quest to be so prohibitively expensive Not that we needed any more confirmation after Avellone spilled the beans.

I made a similar observation about PoE/Tyranny, but the same applies here: Kotor 2 was made in a year (vs Deadfire's 3 years), with a much smaller development team literally working out of Feargus' garage, yet it has almost twice as many companions (12 vs Deadfire's 7) and while not all of them are equally fleshed out, they have a wealth of content between them, including entire class-changing quests for almost half of them.

 

[fantadomat]

dese companion quests i swear

go to place x talk to goy
go to place y talk to guy
go to place z talk to gay

quest complete

(this time serafen)

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

Sounds like something is seriously rotten with the way Obsidian manages their games for a simple companion quest to be so prohibitively expensive. Not that we needed any more confirmation after Avellone spilled the beans.

I made a similar observation about PoE/Tyranny, but the same applies here: Kotor 2 was made in a year (vs Deadfire's 3 years), with a much smaller development team literally working out of Feargus' garage, yet it has almost twice as many companions (12 vs Deadfire's 7) and while not all of them are equally fleshed out, they have a wealth of content between them, including entire class-changing quests for almost half of them.

Yeah,something is very rotten here. There is no way that writing a few pages of story,a few lines/pages of triggers and placing a few enemies with loot in already finished level is a dev killing expense. Now if they are stupid enough to pay 100 bucks per written word is different story.

 

[Fairfax]

dese companion quests i swear

go to place x talk to goy
go to place y talk to guy
go to place z talk to gay

quest complete

(this time serafen)

You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.

Sounds like something is seriously rotten with the way Obsidian manages their games for a simple companion quest to be so prohibitively expensive. Not that we needed any more confirmation after Avellone spilled the beans.

I made a similar observation about PoE/Tyranny, but the same applies here: Kotor 2 was made in a year (vs Deadfire's 3 years), with a much smaller development team literally working out of Feargus' garage, yet it has almost twice as many companions (12 vs Deadfire's 7) and while not all of them are equally fleshed out, they have a wealth of content between them, including entire class-changing quests for almost half of them.

Some of them (especially Durance and the GM) took much more effort than Sawyer would've liked, and it's clear he doesn't really care about companion quests, since most of the time they don't feature what he considers to be "core gameplay". It's also possible he knows Obsidian's current writers aren't nearly as talented and prolific as the ones he used to work with, and chose to play it (too) safe to avoid issues again.

Still, none of that should've mattered. Players value companions and their quests too much for him to make cuts there, he should've sacrificed other things if necessary. It seems Sawyer doesn't understand Obsidian's audience and most RPG fans in general.

 

[Lacrymas]

It does not work like that. If you imagine that by badmouthing the game I'll attract sympathy from its fans who are willing to mod it, you are delusional. If you fling shit at somebody, he's not going to answer with flinging cupcakes back at you.

A mod interests a subset of the people who play the game. A modding tool interests a subset of people who are doing modding for the game, which is even fewer people.

The tool can't generate much drama by itself.

It's not about garnering sympathy, that's immaterial, it's about garnering popularity. It's just way more effective to be dramatic, a polemicist or be involved in some scandal than doing quality work. It can be both, though, and that's what I am saying. The 'Dex itself owns its... let's say "place in the discourse" due to polemics and aggressive criticism, while also being probably the best forum about video games on the whole internet. I was semi-joking at first, but your kind of scornful response led me to think a bit more on the subject and whether that can be a realistic possibility in this particular case. We can't know if you don't try I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Shadenuat]

Strange. Concidering companions weren't even fully voiced, making their quests is as difficult as writing some dialogue and putting 1 and 0 triggers. You can do this on NWN1/2 modding engine for example with almost no training. I can re-make Pallegina's quest in PoE2 maybe in a day there.

on_enter location
if pallegina in party > dialogue
activate trigger for extra line with animancer
if pallegina in party > new dialogue with animancer
spawn kid at _location
dialogue with kid > teleport to location
1 combat encounter + dialogue
end.

modders did WAAAAAAAAY more advanced shit ALONE in NWN1, NWN2, DA:O.
Heck even in IE (sprawling romances with extra quests through whole 3 games, fangirls gonna fangirl), and it's engine was written in notepad lol.

This just reinforces my opinion that PoE2 was really more of a run for cheap buck made on tight budget than their BG2. Big world with a lot of repeated time sinks? Check. Short main quest with no player agency? Check. Smaller party, less companions and almost no content for them compared to 1st game? Also check. Everything that players expect to get more in the 2d game, is not there.

 

[Iskramor]

Behead that gala hipster.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Stop trolling.

 

[Iskramor]

Strange. Concidering companions weren't even fully voiced, making their quests is as difficult as writing some dialogue and putting 1 and 0 triggers. You can do this on NWN1/2 modding engine for example with almost no training. I can re-make Pallegina's quest in PoE2 maybe in a day there.

on_enter location
if pallegina in party > dialogue
activate trigger for extra line with animancer
if pallegina in party > new dialogue with animancer
spawn kid at _location
dialogue with kid > teleport to location
1 combat encounter + dialogue
end.

modders did WAAAAAAAAY more advanced shit ALONE in NWN1, NWN2, DA:O.
Heck even in IE (sprawling romances with extra quests through whole 3 games, fangirls gonna fangirl), and it's engine was written in notepad lol.

This just reinforces my opinion that PoE2 was really more of a run for cheap buck made on tight budget than their BG2. Big world with a lot of repeated time sinks? Check. Short main quest with no player agency? Check. Smaller party, less companions and almost no content for them compared to 1st game? Also check. Everything that players expect to get more in the 2d game, is not there.

Nigga pls modder recreated BG1 in NWN2 ENGINE LMAO OBSIDIAN CUCKED BY FEARGUS.