Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lahey]

Is dispassion a good sign though, especially in comparison to downright polarization?

 

[FreeKaner]

I have said this when I first heard this dumpsterfire was going to be a direct sequel and I will say it when the dust settles too. Deadfire being a direct sequel was and is detrimental to its quality, its reception, its sales and its longevity. Moreover big RPGs should never be sequels especially if they are focusing on side content rather than the main journey like deadfire obviously is. A lot of resources went into flimsily connecting this game to first one, including the reactivity to first game that could instead be reactivity in the game itself.

It's such a doubledown, high-risk low-reward thing to do. Regardless of the game you are making it's a gamble that you should not take unless you are absolutely certain the main character is why it succeeded, which is never the case in a create your MC game. It occasionally works in some games where main character is compelling enough that they become instantly iconic, like Assassin's creed series' Ezio or MG's Solid Snake.

 

[Riddler]

Another thought about the direct sequel thing is that it could have made sense if they had a really interesting and compelling narrative idea that required the previous character to work but they didn't. They tried to rely on an uninteresting character to tell an uncompelling story with very little player agency in an otherwise excellent game with tons of player agency.

Wat

 

[J_C]

Time will tell what truly went wrong, but it is really hard not to give Sawyer the bulk of the blame IMO.

The Codex: huh, Deadfire is pretty good actually, imagine that

Also the Codex: but it's Sawyer's fault if it flops

Sorry my droogs but that doesn't fly. Apart from the usual Obsidian day-1 flakiness this is a solid product, better in most ways than P1 which was a resounding success despite being just this side of a clusterfuck at 1.0. It's also remarkable in that it's not dumbed down from P1* while at the same time having clearly more mainstream appeal.

If it flops it's not Josh's fault or indeed anyone's involved with making the actual product. Point the finger at marketing.

*On balance, there's a bit of dumbing down here and there but also a quite a bit of smartening up in other areas.

While I agree that Sawyer overall has done an excellent job as a project manager in delivering a vastly superior product to PoE1 I'm not sure you can completly exonerate him of any blame.

I agree that marketing might be the primary issue here but choices in game design inform marketing. The biggest of these choices was to make Deadfire a direct sequel to PoE1. Barely anyone finished PoE and practically noone thought the watcher was a compelling character or that the story was particularly interesting.

Why put a stranglehold on marketing with the direct sequel crap? Why not create a new fresh and exciting character for your new game with its new exciting setting?

When has a direct sequel ever worked? BG2? The difference here is that people actually liked the story of BG..

Making a non-direct sequel doesn't seem to hinder other game franchises such as Fallout, Elder scrolls, Dues Ex, AssCreed, Call of Duty, Final fantasy, Dark souls, DoS.

Even Super Mario or Zelda games which share an extremely iconic character does not have the games be direct sequels to each other.

Direct sequels are a retarded idea unless people are extremely attached to the main character and the continuation of the story and even then it's debatable.

I'd chalk up much of the issues with the game's lack of success and it's lackluster marketing to this choice and whoever made it should feel bad and seriously reevaluate the reasons for it.

The direct sequel design might be the result of this game being crowdfunded. Those guys were still riding the BG nostalgia train, I remember several of them expressing that they want to see a sequel similar to BG2. So Obsidian maybe was a bit scared that they piss of some people during the fig campaign if they don't continue the story.

 

[Lexx]

Anyone can tell me if it's possible to cheat me the submarine into my new game? I'd like to use it some more than just a minute.

 

[reavor]

I don't see how a game being a direct sequel is automatically detrimental to quality, worked fine for BG2, KOTOR2 and others. thing is, those games kept the basic game system intact, and focused on building the story. deadfire redid a lot of things from the ground up, and although the premise was good I think, to continue the absence of Eothas and tie it into the adra statue, things could still have been tightened up considerably. also the sjw-isms interfering with immersion.

 

[Jenkem]

wow! there really are sea shanties in this game!

 

[Riddler]

Time will tell what truly went wrong, but it is really hard not to give Sawyer the bulk of the blame IMO.

The Codex: huh, Deadfire is pretty good actually, imagine that

Also the Codex: but it's Sawyer's fault if it flops

Sorry my droogs but that doesn't fly. Apart from the usual Obsidian day-1 flakiness this is a solid product, better in most ways than P1 which was a resounding success despite being just this side of a clusterfuck at 1.0. It's also remarkable in that it's not dumbed down from P1* while at the same time having clearly more mainstream appeal.

If it flops it's not Josh's fault or indeed anyone's involved with making the actual product. Point the finger at marketing.

*On balance, there's a bit of dumbing down here and there but also a quite a bit of smartening up in other areas.

While I agree that Sawyer overall has done an excellent job as a project manager in delivering a vastly superior product to PoE1 I'm not sure you can completly exonerate him of any blame.

I agree that marketing might be the primary issue here but choices in game design inform marketing. The biggest of these choices was to make Deadfire a direct sequel to PoE1. Barely anyone finished PoE and practically noone thought the watcher was a compelling character or that the story was particularly interesting.

Why put a stranglehold on marketing with the direct sequel crap? Why not create a new fresh and exciting character for your new game with its new exciting setting?

When has a direct sequel ever worked? BG2? The difference here is that people actually liked the story of BG..

Making a non-direct sequel doesn't seem to hinder other game franchises such as Fallout, Elder scrolls, Dues Ex, AssCreed, Call of Duty, Final fantasy, Dark souls, DoS.

Even Super Mario or Zelda games which share an extremely iconic character does not have the games be direct sequels to each other.

Direct sequels are a retarded idea unless people are extremely attached to the main character and the continuation of the story and even then it's debatable.

I'd chalk up much of the issues with the game's lack of success and it's lackluster marketing to this choice and whoever made it should feel bad and seriously reevaluate the reasons for it.

The direct sequel design might be the result of this game being crowdfunded. Those guys were still riding the BG nostalgia train, I remember several of them expressing that they want to see a sequel similar to BG2. So Obsidian maybe was a bit scared that they piss of some people during the fig campaign if they don't continue the story.

Possibly but this is still stupid. There are clear differences here still and they had no financial need to crowdfund Deadfire. PoE made them in excess of 20 million. They could double the budget of PoE for Deadfire and still make a 5 million $ profit on PoE.

 

[Frusciante]

Time will tell what truly went wrong, but it is really hard not to give Sawyer the bulk of the blame IMO.

The Codex: huh, Deadfire is pretty good actually, imagine that

Also the Codex: but it's Sawyer's fault if it flops

It probably has a lot more to do with PoE 1 than with PoE 2. Initial sales of the sequel should pertain to the previous game, yet many who played PoE 1 are still refusing to buy the sequel. Does that means that the reception of PoE 1 is worse than initially thought? Maybe. At least I didn't miss any of the drama on the Codex... You wrote one of the 5+ PoE reviews, so I doubt you missed it either.

That all said, the blatant SJWism in PoE 2 certainly doesn't help sales either. Feargus (and the upper management) is certainly also to blame. He should have done his job and checked out what Sawyer was up to, but I guess he was just too busy trying to figure out how to get his entire family on payroll (thanks for the revelations, MCA).

That (SJWism affecting sales) is completely ridiculous. The average gamer certainly doesn't base his/her decision on an investigation on how strong the SJWism in the game is.

 

[Riddler]

Time will tell what truly went wrong, but it is really hard not to give Sawyer the bulk of the blame IMO.

The Codex: huh, Deadfire is pretty good actually, imagine that

Also the Codex: but it's Sawyer's fault if it flops

It probably has a lot more to do with PoE 1 than with PoE 2. Initial sales of the sequel should pertain to the previous game, yet many who played PoE 1 are still refusing to buy the sequel. Does that means that the reception of PoE 1 is worse than initially thought? Maybe. At least I didn't miss any of the drama on the Codex... You wrote one of the 5+ PoE reviews, so I doubt you missed it either.

That all said, the blatant SJWism in PoE 2 certainly doesn't help sales either. Feargus (and the upper management) is certainly also to blame. He should have done his job and checked out what Sawyer was up to, but I guess he was just too busy trying to figure out how to get his entire family on payroll (thanks for the revelations, MCA).

That (SJWism affecting sales) is completely ridiculous. The average gamer certainly doesn't base his/her decision on an investigation on how strong the SJWism in the game is.

While I agree to some extent the fact that second to largest thread on the steam forum is about whining about this can't have a positive impact on sales. Probably not too big an impact but it probably turns some people off.

 

[TT1]

What the fuck happened with Aloth's quest? You barely do anything and it just ends.

Like any other companion quest. It was amusing when entered with shark boy in the smugglers cave and saw the quest complete marker at the top right,it was amusing because i didn't even started his quests. For a long time i thought that his quest would have been to find the fourth form of water bending....sadly it is a cut content.

Yeah, Eder's quest seems pretty... anticlimactic. I mean it was in the first game too, but it seemed a little more poignant there.

To be honest that description fits most quests in the game......if not all the quests.

yeah... Quest design in general doesn't seem to be a strong point. I just finished Serafen's quest, and it is also a let down. I thought they said they were putting more content in the companion quests this time around, but if anything they seem even leaner than in PoE1. The faction quests don't seem that much better than PoE1. There's been one so far where I could choose to help the Vailians or the Royal Deadfire Company at the end, but as far as I can tell it was exactly the same quest up until the end no matter who I was working for. The best quests so far are the ones that just send me to do some dungeon diving.

This is something that puzzle me. They say "oh, companions are too much effort, we have to do a quest, banter, relationships, etc so let focus on just some companions and have sidekicks".

But the final result is: the companions have quest for 10 minutes, almost zero character development, and the sidekicks are more interesting than the companions.

WTF, obsidian?

 

[toro]

Oh no... I'm finding myself sexually attracted to Eder. Why can't I romance him, Obsidian? WHY?

Actually you can.

 

[FreeKaner]

The mechanical system design they put into companion relationships limited their scope likely, as they had to account for tags and relationships between all possible companions. This is why this sort of real system counter for companions is probably not a good idea, keep them for factions and other characters that aren't directly involved but companions you have to handcraft to tailor for a long and fitting content.

 

[aweigh]

Stumbled onto this scene on an island

 

[Latro]

rpg for ants

 

[J_C]

Stumbled onto this scene on an island

Why don't you put an even smaller picture here, that way nobody could read it.

 

[J_C]

Time will tell what truly went wrong, but it is really hard not to give Sawyer the bulk of the blame IMO.

The Codex: huh, Deadfire is pretty good actually, imagine that

Also the Codex: but it's Sawyer's fault if it flops

Sorry my droogs but that doesn't fly. Apart from the usual Obsidian day-1 flakiness this is a solid product, better in most ways than P1 which was a resounding success despite being just this side of a clusterfuck at 1.0. It's also remarkable in that it's not dumbed down from P1* while at the same time having clearly more mainstream appeal.

If it flops it's not Josh's fault or indeed anyone's involved with making the actual product. Point the finger at marketing.

*On balance, there's a bit of dumbing down here and there but also a quite a bit of smartening up in other areas.

While I agree that Sawyer overall has done an excellent job as a project manager in delivering a vastly superior product to PoE1 I'm not sure you can completly exonerate him of any blame.

I agree that marketing might be the primary issue here but choices in game design inform marketing. The biggest of these choices was to make Deadfire a direct sequel to PoE1. Barely anyone finished PoE and practically noone thought the watcher was a compelling character or that the story was particularly interesting.

Why put a stranglehold on marketing with the direct sequel crap? Why not create a new fresh and exciting character for your new game with its new exciting setting?

When has a direct sequel ever worked? BG2? The difference here is that people actually liked the story of BG..

Making a non-direct sequel doesn't seem to hinder other game franchises such as Fallout, Elder scrolls, Dues Ex, AssCreed, Call of Duty, Final fantasy, Dark souls, DoS.

Even Super Mario or Zelda games which share an extremely iconic character does not have the games be direct sequels to each other.

Direct sequels are a retarded idea unless people are extremely attached to the main character and the continuation of the story and even then it's debatable.

I'd chalk up much of the issues with the game's lack of success and it's lackluster marketing to this choice and whoever made it should feel bad and seriously reevaluate the reasons for it.

The direct sequel design might be the result of this game being crowdfunded. Those guys were still riding the BG nostalgia train, I remember several of them expressing that they want to see a sequel similar to BG2. So Obsidian maybe was a bit scared that they piss of some people during the fig campaign if they don't continue the story.

Possibly but this is still stupid. There are clear differences here still and they had no financial need to crowdfund Deadfire. PoE made them in excess of 20 million. They could double the budget of PoE for Deadfire and still make a 5 million $ profit on PoE.

It is not easy to pass up on free money, especially when their CEO is the Fig platform holder.. :D

 

[Mazisky]

It is worth to fight ships? I'm half game (level 11) and desperately need money, but i hate ship combat.

 

[Iskramor]

How did I not come here sooner.

It's not good.
It's not going to flop.

Also, there is much disconnect here between what the codex wants and what it thinks Sawyer/Obsidian wants. Sawyer is obviously making a game for casuals. And most pragmatically, he should. 90% people who played PoE did not finish it. The game was too farking boring. Since Obsidian cannot change the mechanics/setting to be more interesting without admitting that they made a poopoo, they were ought to make the game easier and fill it with romances so that the proletariat could enjoy the game too. And that gives us the polished turd that is PoE 2. Don't get me wrong. It is a fine game, right in the tradition of Fallout 3.

Stopped reading after fallout 3

 

[Riddler]

Possibly but this is still stupid. There are clear differences here still and they had no financial need to crowdfund Deadfire. PoE made them in excess of 20 million. They could double the budget of PoE for Deadfire and still make a 5 million $ profit on PoE.

It is not easy to pass up on free money, especially when their CEO is the Fig platform holder.. :D

Feargus!!

 

[Iskramor]

Stumbled onto this scene on an island

Plagiarism is wrong

 

[Lacrymas]

It was extremely obvious the writing is going to suck in this game, I was repeating that since they announced they were working on it. There are no talented writers (or writers that know what they are doing at all) left at Obsidian, what did you expect? I'm not gonna lie, I'm kinda disappointed and even surprised that PoE2 seems unfinished and so barebones. PoE1 was barebones because of the budget issue, what is the excuse now? The faction quests are not much more involved than PoE1's faction quests? What?

 

[Prime Junta]

Wolfenstein was probably one of the first games hurt by its politics.

Yeah, a Wolfenstein game about killing Nazis, inconceivable

 

[FreeKaner]

It was extremely obvious the writing is going to suck in this game, I was repeating that since they announced they were working on it. There are no talented writers (or writers that know what they are doing at all) left at Obsidian, what did you expect? I'm not gonna lie, I'm kinda disappointed and even surprised that PoE2 seems unfinished and so barebones. PoE1 was barebones because of the budget issue, what is the excuse now? The faction quests are not much more involved than PoE1's faction quests? What?

You didn't read anything in first game no? For combatfags and systemfags this is a better game, it also has exploration and what not.

 

[Riddler]

Wolfenstein was probably one of the first games hurt by its politics.

Yeah, a Wolfenstein game about killing Nazis, inconceivable

People are fine killing Nazis. Its the comparison between white southern US men and literal storybook evil nazis combined with the rainbow alliance cast that makes people angry.

It implies that white conservative men are Nazis and "minorites" are the only people opposing them.

It's telling the primary demographic that they should fuck off that's the issue here. The message is very overt while it's questionable that there is any sort of message at all in Deadfire.