Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

I feel like now we'll be stacking Penetration and Accuracy, as opposed to just Accuracy. I predict massive feat starvation.

 

[KateMicucci]

Ok. So depending on the implementation, we'll either be carrying around a sackful of different weapons to counter each marginal step of armor, or we'll just carry nothing but estocs and guns again. If they forget to add naked enemies again then the 0-1 pen weapons will still be useless.

 

[Infinitron]

we'll either be carrying around a sackful of different weapons to counter each marginal step of armor

Hopefully! That's how this sort of game should play when it has good itemization.

 

[Lacrymas]

Lol, no. That would be increasingly tedious and automatic micro-management rather than a tactical choice. I already had to cycle through 2 different sets of weapons on my Priest and 3 sets of guns on my Ranger. It wasn't that fun, let me tell you, but it was a nice way to cheese reload times and cycle through Spellstriking enchantments, so I'd rather have that than not. Changing the type of weapon, however, will severely limit Devoted Fighters who are penalized for not using their weapon of choice (or maybe that's the point?). Maybe I'm just biased because I'm thinking of going Priest of Skaen/Stiletto Devoted Fighter (or maybe Soul Blade Cipher), but still, changing weapon types willy-nilly will make specialization less attractive. Maybe to the point of not bothering with it at all.

 

[KateMicucci]

Hopefully! That's how this sort of game should play when it has good itemization.

Meh. I kinda prefer my guys to have signature weapons.

If the number of armor steps is kept low, like 1-3, I could handle carrying three different kinds of weapons around for each guy. More than that and it'll get stupid. 3 is already pushing it.

I think this sort of a system would work better in a game where weapon inventory was more limited. Like you get one musket/spear length weapon, one sword-length weapon, and one mace/dagger length weapon. If I can counter any level of armor and get an optimal weapon just by switching between my sledgehammer, halberd and claymore then it's just an automatic choice, and worse than having no armor system at all.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Out with the mushiness, please!

Also, I'm having a hard time imagining an arrow doing slash damage. Yes, I know it's not a simulationist system. But still!

we'll either be carrying around a sackful of different weapons to counter each marginal step of armor

Hopefully! That's how this sort of game should play when it has good itemization.

This would combat the designer's intent - that armor and weapons choices matter.

I did play through PoE carrying a weapon enchanted vs every enemy type, just to get the acc bonus (or whatever) vs kith, vs beast, etc.

 

[Lacrymas]

Eh, carrying around weapons enchanted against every possible enemy just for the ACC bonus is overkill, especially if you have a Priest or someone to cast the Accuracy scrolls, it's much more advantageous to load up on the unique weapons enchanted for general use. Btw, do we have any idea when this will be released?

 

[AwesomeButton]

"Load up" on unique weapons? What does this mean? The best combination I think, is to have a weapon that's appropriate for the armor, the elemental susceptibility if any, and the enemy type.

The release should be around the end of Q1 2018.

 

[Lacrymas]

I mean the quick weapon slots. I had Azureith's Stiletto + Ventral Pick in the first slot and Bleak Fang + Misery's End in the second, starting with the first set I waited until the Spellstriking enchantment hit then switched to the other set. My ranger had 3 such weapons, they all had some kind of effect, like Marking or a chance to cast Divine Mark, alternating between them with Powder Burns on to spread the effects everywhere and circumvent the first batch of reload times. I took Quick Switch and had Coil of Resourcefulness, too.

 

[AwesomeButton]

This is a cool idea, i never thought to link sets of weapons so that one creates an effect that the other takes advantage of. Like with weapons fine tuned for enemy types though - individual advantages are too small for the player to discern a difference, he has to stack multiple advantages in order to feel an effect, than then he can't pinpoint the thing he did correct because it's more than one thing, and the end impression is that everything is bland and irrelevant... which it is, if taken by itself.

 

[Lacrymas]

Kind of. You do need to stack most effects to notice, that goes for the mobs, too. It's when you have 2+ debuffs on you do you start feeling it. This is exacerbated by the terrible UI which doesn't tell you anything, you have to manually mouse over each person on your team to monitor their debuffs and sometimes the duration of their buffs. Some spells are bonkers, though, like Amplified Wave, the game is practically over when you get it. Ciphers and Priests are basically overpowered. By a lot. There is also the curious situation of buff stacking, where casting 1 buff does basically nothing, but casting 2 buffs is incredibly OP and nothing can touch you.

 

[Parabalus]

I'm sure specializing in a weapon isn't just getting the modals, but will have passive bonuses like +Accuracy in PoE1. Also, you aren't forced to use the modals and they will target different defenses, making it easier to hit the foe, you aren't doing any damage if you aren't hitting anything, so it isn't some kind of Sawyerist conspiracy to rob you of your fun. Wow, I have come to defend PoE, fate is a strange companion.

Sawyer specifically said that proficiencies will only offer trade-offs so you don't get penalised for picking up new weapons. Very good choice in my book.

Single class BG fighters (or kensai/x dual) suffered a lot from that, that you will have one viable weapon group choice for the whole game, was just annoying since you couldn't experiment.

 

[Lacrymas]

Then you won't specialize at all probably, depending on how effective and useful the modals are. Unless the other talents are shit and not worth picking up, of course. I predict his stance on that changing in the end, but who knows.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, using multiple weapon sets only seems like a chore, until you realize it's a byproduct of how open the weapon system is. Everybody can use everything efficiently and I really like how that encourages experimentation, as well as some of the more metagamey tricks, like your ranged guys opening up with Arquebuses and switching to their regular weapons. But, all that freedom needs to have some downsides, so I'm willing to accept having to switch to a different set every once in a while to counter a specific opponent.

 

[FreeKaner]

There is also possibility of modals having particularly good synergy with some talents, abilities or spells. So specialisation could be more intuitive and organic rather than direct bonuses.

I also really liked a particular playstyle, mainly for aesthetics and larp purposes, I gave all my melee guys arquebuses which they shot at a single crucial enemy at the start of the fight before rushing in, often you could take out a key target quickly, in the time they would normally be doing nothing. However then again my party compositions were generally about overwhelming enemy quickly with alpha-strike overall with support of debuffs and CCs.

 

[Sentinel]

This "freedom" only contributes to the smearing of class identity. Classes should be locked to a set of weapons that they can use. Either entirely locked into those weapons, or they get a bonus to attack rolls with those weapons but can still use other shit.

 

[Lacrymas]

More like it makes weapons interchangeable, rather than confuse the class identities since it's up to you what weapons you want to use. The classes play like each other in general, the weapons aren't at fault for that.

 

[Haplo]

Out with the mushiness, please!

Also, I'm having a hard time imagining an arrow doing slash damage. Yes, I know it's not a simulationist system. But still!

Eh, it's possible I guess. Like a crescent shaped arrow head or a reverse V. Could be usefull to cut ropes or something. But would have terrible penetration, which kinda defeats the purpose. Probably also less range/accuracy/damage. And such arrowheads would be much more expensive and rare too. Not very practical overall...

 

[FreeKaner]

Out with the mushiness, please!

Also, I'm having a hard time imagining an arrow doing slash damage. Yes, I know it's not a simulationist system. But still!

Some Hungarian arrowheads from 10th century:

Spoiler

 

[Lacrymas]

I imagine being struck by any of those arrowheads isn't a very pleasant experience.

 

[The Bishop]

Slashing usually implies whipping motion, not just some capacity for cutting though? Then again, arguing realism in a D&D inspired game is a waste of time anyway.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I'm not into arguing, but I'm wondering why specializing into something penalizes your character, if I'm reading things correctly.
So if you specialize in slashing weapons, why do you no longer wield piercing or blunt weapons as effectively as you did before you specialized? Is that what he's saying or am I making a clusterfuck of things?

 

[Iznaliu]

This "freedom" only contributes to the smearing of class identity. Classes should be locked to a set of weapons that they can use. Either entirely locked into those weapons, or they get a bonus to attack rolls with those weapons but can still use other shit.

The idea of arbitrary limitations to preserve "class identity" is downright stupid and inane.

 

[Sentinel]

This "freedom" only contributes to the smearing of class identity. Classes should be locked to a set of weapons that they can use. Either entirely locked into those weapons, or they get a bonus to attack rolls with those weapons but can still use other shit.

The idea of arbitrary limitations to preserve "class identity" is downright stupid and inane.

Nah it isn't, it's good game design in a class-based RPG that helps differentiate classes. If you want garbage like "lol anyone can do anything!!!" just go play classless shit.

 

[Iznaliu]

Nah it isn't, it's good game design in a class-based RPG that helps differentiate classes. If you want garbage like "lol anyone can do anything!!!" just go play classless shit.

Arbitrarily assigning elements to different classes is a waste of time; you are implying a false dichotomy between strong class-based systems and classless systems.