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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,467
Location
Lair of Despair
Holy shit, Tyrant's helmet is broken as fuck.
After I picked it up from the demon it doesn't allow bearer to use Bless anymore, only shackles of pain.
It means that my tank has now Bless permamently.
 

Renfri

Cipher
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
541
Almost 40 hours in, here are some thoughts:

- Game looks super pretty, soundtrack is good, but nothing special (it doesn't jump to your ears like DOS1, so it's more traditional I guess)

- Combat is still so damn slow, but it looks pretty at least. I've got used to armor system, it's okay imo, just need to use that CC in second round in fight. Not so much filler combat, like in PoE for example.

- I like how world is larger, and every path doesn't lead to dead end.

- I've encountered at least dozen and half lines without voice-over. And feels like journal doesn't update all the time, and sometimes updates things later in large chunk.

- There is so much things to do, so many quests and it's quite overwhelming. Most quests are quite fun.

- Larian humor.

TLDR: Game is good so far.
 

nullbag

Barely Literate
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
3
Btw I've just noticed I fucked up. My Persuasion 5 character also has Barter 1 so maybe I get the 10% discount for my Barter instead of Persuasion. Then again if a point in Barter equals 10% off the prices then maxing out Barter gives you shit for free?

Test it and we'll see.

On a vendor with base attitude +5, I get:
  • 5% discount with 5 Persuasion (no Barter) <-- modified attitude is 25
  • 21% discount with 5 Barter (no Persuasion) <--- 25% with 6 Barter
This is going by the tooltip at the top. If you calculate via the actual prices, you'll find that they round off (a discounted buy price of 37.5 is rounded up to 38).

Of course, Thievery has the best discount.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,179
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Holy shit, Tyrant's helmet is broken as fuck.

You mean the one from the Tyrant set on the first island?

That set is pretty stupid. You can only equip once you find all the pieces and you only find all the pieces just before you leave the first island. And on the mainland it's already obsolete since mobs can smush you with two shwoongs.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Copenhagen
It's not, it's exactly the same more or less. Good on terrain avoidance (all things considered) retarded at pretty much everything else. You even mention AOO's which was a signature DoS1 AI-trait (ignoring it, that is).
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Messages
1,878,490
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Djibouti
It's not, it's exactly the same more or less. Good on terrain avoidance (all things considered) retarded at pretty much everything else. You even mention AOO's which was a signature DoS1 AI-trait (ignoring it, that is).

I don't ever remember something like this happening in dos1:

Enemy fighter is engaged with my fighter. Enemy fighter decides to take 2 steps to move around my fighter. This results in him taking an aoo and wasting 1 ap for movement. After that he just smacks my fighter with a basic attack.

The enemy's just wasted 30 hp and 1 ap for no reason at all. And it happens in EVERY DAMN FIGHT TO ME, FFS

Also, actually I remember aoos got wonky in dos1... but only in the EE, which screwed up a shitton of things. In the original game it was much, much smarter - IIRC it never or very rarely did really dumb shit, and was also capable of queuing up complex actions spanning over 5 different characters to execute a plan. I haven't seen anything of the sort here, in the taktishun mode that I played briefly.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Actually it happened all the time. Sometimes enemies would even run from their position to some random spot, then run back to the exact same spot and end their turn. It happens in DoSII as well. I'm pretty sure they more or less copy-pasted the AI
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
They've been behaving reasonably well in my experience so far. Of course, when they have no real chance of winning any more, whatever they do seems stupid.

I've seen inexplicable and inconsiderate rushes towards the backline which costs them AoOs.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
If we were to compile a list of reasonable criticism and mechanical issues, what would it be? We've discussed more than this, but:
  • The AI behaving utterly retarded at times, for no discernable reason (such as taking AoO hits just.. for literally no reason, often dying to them).
  • The completely fucking insane Initiative/Turn-Order issues.
  • The laughably bad defensive skills.
  • Binarity of outcomes, predictability, and the effect of armor on the flow of combat in higher difficulties (clearly completely untested).
  • The near-meaningless Attribute system/"What flavor of +5% damage do you want?"
  • Lack of cross-skill support/synergies between martial skills due to pigeonholing of skills/weapon use.
  • The rollercoaster ride of useful vs. useless that are the Talents.
Anything else? I'm thinking of doing a summary of recognized issues and potential fixes. Not that I think Larian will listen at this point, but it feels wrong to stand in a corner and bitch without giving any feedback.

Actually it happened all the time. Sometimes enemies would even run from their position to some random spot, then run back to the exact same spot and end their turn. It happens in DoSII as well. I'm pretty sure they more or less copy-pasted the AI
I can say with utmost certainty that in my full-and-half-again playthrough of D:OS1, that never happened. I can't say anything about D:OS:EE, because I never finished it, but the base game? No way, no how. The AI is better in D:OS2 in some ways (it seems to be using surfaces properly, most of the time), but in others it seems a lot worse - taking AoO hits for no reason, for example.
 
Last edited:

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,467
Location
Lair of Despair
For me the most laughable was skeletons in the ambush on swamp, the ones in group with Void deep lurker.
At some point ranger and wizard decided to each turn get down on the ladder, attack. Next turn they went uo on the ladder and attacked.
They repeated it all the time.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
For me the most laughable was skeletons in the ambush on swamp, the ones in group with Void deep lurker.
At some point ranger and wizard decided to each turn get down on the ladder, attack. Next turn they went uo on the ladder and attacked.
They repeated it all the time.
I tried fighting them at level 5 yesterday. Kicked my ass bad 4 times and I avoided them through teleportation.
 

imweasel

Guest
The whole game seems to be tarded compared to dos1. Which is quite an accomplishment.
I've played enough of both to say that D:OS 1 is the better game.

The systems design quality has dropped quite considerably. The writing hasn't improved much either, there is just more of it.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Djibouti
I can say with utmost certainty that in my full-and-half-again playthrough of D:OS1, that never happened.

This.

Actually, the more I try to think about it, the more I do seem to recall retarded things happening in the EE. But to be frank my memory of the EE is very fuzzy because it was so much worse compared to the base game, so I played through it on a kind of "eh" mode.
 

Antigoon

Augur
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
366
It's not, it's exactly the same more or less. Good on terrain avoidance (all things considered) retarded at pretty much everything else. You even mention AOO's which was a signature DoS1 AI-trait (ignoring it, that is).

I don't ever remember something like this happening in dos1:

Enemy fighter is engaged with my fighter. Enemy fighter decides to take 2 steps to move around my fighter. This results in him taking an aoo and wasting 1 ap for movement. After that he just smacks my fighter with a basic attack.

The enemy's just wasted 30 hp and 1 ap for no reason at all. And it happens in EVERY DAMN FIGHT TO ME, FFS

Also, actually I remember aoos got wonky in dos1... but only in the EE, which screwed up a shitton of things. In the original game it was much, much smarter - IIRC it never or very rarely did really dumb shit, and was also capable of queuing up complex actions spanning over 5 different characters to execute a plan. I haven't seen anything of the sort here, in the taktishun mode that I played briefly.
Yeah I noticed the same. Enemies are constantly pulling that special move.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's weird because in my experience so far the AI is actually behaving pretty well, blocking passages, using heights properly, covering its back from backstabs, targeting weaker armored opponents etc.

There were only like a couple of times where I remember thinking "oh thanks for that stupid move AI" which is something that happens A LOT in most games
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In the original game it was much, much smarter - IIRC it never or very rarely did really dumb shit, and was also capable of queuing up complex actions spanning over 5 different characters to execute a plan. I haven't seen anything of the sort here, in the taktishun mode that I played briefly.

I have absolutely seen that and actually in pretty cool fashion. Like the first character dropping a barrel on us so that the next one will light it on fire and so on.
The main issue though is probably the stupid initiative system. Because how can an AI string more than 2-3 actions together if the situation changes almost every turn (since it goes PC-AI-PC-AI)?
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Messages
1,878,490
Location
Djibouti
The main issue though is probably the stupid initiative system. Because how can an AI string more than 2-3 actions together if the situation changes almost every turn (since it goes PC-AI-PC-AI)?

A very good point.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Messages
97,495
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/119664-divinity-original-sin-ii-reviews.html

PCGamesN 9/10:

In the solo (and, optionally, co-op) campaign that will be most players’ first port of call, the strengths are much the same as they were the first time around. Larian have wisely leaned on the elemental combat that powered Divinity: Original Sin - the same system that turned every battle into a bubbling broth of status effects. Fire arrows still ignite poison gas, rain spells extinguish flames, and electrical jolts turn steam into lightning clouds. The path to victory usually lies in catalysing an explosive reaction or three, and then making sure your opponents don’t get a chance to recover. It can be tough, since even the lowliest guard can take a fireball to the face and keep slugging. But finally felling your enemies, through wit and persistence, feels fantastic.

The genius lies in the way Larian’s meticulous simulation trickles out of the combat and into the game world at large. Where many turn-based RPGs tend to separate out roleplaying and conflict - church and state - in Divinity, one bleeds into the other. It’s not only that one character in your party can be having a chat while another flings fireballs in the next room. It’s that, when you wander past an open fire, the ‘warm’ effect is attributed to you for a few seconds. Or, if you cast the same teleportation spell that allows you to drop enemies into burning oil slicks, you might throw a companion over a ravine into an otherwise inaccessible area.

[...]

Divinity: Original Sin 2 stands as a remarkable example of three genres: the classic roleplaying game, the online arena battler, and the tabletop-style adventure enabler. If its campaign fails to shake off some of Larian’s unfriendlier habits, those flaws are mitigated by the ways in which the studio have shaped a genre moulded by nostalgia into genuinely new forms - changing more than just the keyboard shortcuts for the better.​

GameInformer 9.75/10

Puzzles are a prominent feature, and range from placing weights on pressure plates to fiendishly intricate mysteries that require multiple items and creative problem-solving solutions. While the immediate reaction may be to reach for a walkthrough when stuck, I found immense satisfaction in coming up with convoluted solutions to some of the late-game conundrums. One puzzle near the end of the game is particularly esoteric and has multiple solutions – all I can say is if you ever think your solution might be too insane, just try it. You can always reload that save file!

While this fantasy gem is almost flawless, some meddlesome quirks are drilled into the framework with random character freezes, running through closed doors, puzzle pieces not operating properly, and quests not completing. These bugs are frustrating, but if you’re saving often anyway they should be mostly painless. I didn’t run into anything that stopped me from enjoying the game.

Multiplayer is also available for up to four players, but things can get messy quickly if your friends are troublemakers or want to take things in different directions. You’re going to be on the hook for your buddy when he gets caught stealing or decides to kill that dwarf you’re trying to make friends with, but that chaos can be fun, too. A Game Master mode lets players set up their own campaigns and adventures, which is sure to give creative mapmakers and modders a lot to enjoy and add longevity to the game.

Divinity: Original Sin 2 is one of the greatest PC RPGs of all time, and Larian’s continued dedication to creating incredible freeform adventures inspired by tabletop lineage is inspiring and commendable. A few bugs and frustrating encounters are small prices to pay for a lavish ensemble of the genre’s best and a one-of-a-kind experience.​

Trusted Reviews 4/5:

And that, really, is the only place Divinity: Original Sin 2 falls down. Thanks to the game’s incredible density, you can often find it hard to progress. The game can throw so much at you that, sometimes, it can be overwhelming and you have no idea what to do next in order to succeed. You are going to fail some quests. People are going to die. And Original Sin 2 really requires you to be on board with that, otherwise you’re going to have a bad time. If you’re a completionist that needs to clear an area completely before moving on, Original Sin 2 may not be for you – it’s a game that needs you to go with the flow and accept the world is going to move on, with or without you. If the game had an alignment, it would be chaotic neutral – and that’s fantastic.

VERDICT

This is a great game for RPG fans to get their teeth into: over 20 hours in, you’ll notice the story only just starts gaining traction, and you may only just start getting familiar with the game’s myriad systems. The game is unforgiving, often mercilessly so, but if you have the patience to penetrate the density and crack open the core gameplay, there’s such a wealth of well-written RPG content, it’s impossible not to recommend.​

Hardcore Gamer 5/5:

Divinity: Original Sin II pulled off the impressive task of taking the kitchen sink approach to game design by cramming as much into it as possible yet somehow making it all work, making it a fantastic title for solo or multiplayer gaming. Playing the Divinity: Original Sin is not required to enjoy this title or its story, though having played the first game will make the experience more rewarding. Everything about Divinity: Original Sin II is of the highest quality and any negatives that could be said are basically nitpicking, such as the camera angles might obscure characters one percent of the time or the inventory set up isn’t as nice as you’ve seen in some other games. No game is perfect, but this one comes closer than most. Larian Studios created a masterpiece with Divinity: Original Sin and using that as a template and listening to player feedback during the development process, they challenged themselves to create a superior successor and accomplished that goal. Divinity: Original Sin II is not only a contender for best game of 2017, but one of the best RPGs ever created. The game could easily take a hundred hours to complete and the interplay between the well-constructed story, gameplay mechanics and player freedom creates a world I could see myself revisiting with different parties just to watch the story unfold differently. Simply put, Divinity: Original Sin II is truly divine.​

Game Skinny 9/10:

I've been trying to think of things I legitimately don't like about the game and can only come up with minor quibbles, like the fact that some of the standard key bindings don't quite make sense to me. Why does the G button bring up the crafting screen instead of the C button? Why does tab switch to combat instead of highlighting the stuff on the ground?

Other than that, and my distaste for comic relief, there's really nothing about Divinity: Original Sin 2 that doesn't scream "RPG of the year!" It's got everything an RPG fanatic could want: crafting, 10 types of skill categories to choose from, different build foci, robust combat, interesting characters and quests, and plenty more. Basically, if you love anything cRPG related from the Infinity Engine forward, you need to buy this game.​
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
The most idiotic and frustrating instance of dumb AI I saw was during the fight where you save the Sorcerer from being hanged in the mines area. I wanted to keep him alive but his AI was just braindead and he was determined to kill himself. Constantly running through fire to attack an enemy even though there was one right next to him. Running through fire to attack an enemy, then running back to attack one next to him. He did this every single round too...I spent more AP healing and buffing him just trying to keep him alive then I spent actually fighting monsters lol.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,490
Location
Djibouti
BTW, Rupture Tendons is a hilarious skill for reasons more than one:

1. You can cast through armour.
2. The damage goes through armour straight into HP.
3. It also does damage for distance travelled when the enemy teleports :lol:

My coop bro used it on some rainjerk enemy at full hp, who then used tactical retreat... and died upon landing :lol:
 

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