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NWN Neverwinter Nights (NWN & NWN2) Modules Thread

Sabotin

Scholar
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
191
You don't have to begin and end with the same playstyle through the game. Especially at early levels you're usually forced to find a working solution rather than insist on proficiencies and focuses. I played through a few campaigns with a single katana wielding monk/ftr/wm kensai type character, yet still used heavy gear and longswords for a long while at the start.

Btw, check out NWNCX for the annoying combat modes. I use it almost exclusively due to it making toggles not turn off at the drop of a hat.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,019
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, sure, but what do the Monk levels give long-term? They seem wasted after becoming an archer.
 

rogueknight333

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Jul 31, 2017
Messages
352
Originally in dnd you can't save skill points at levelup (there's half ranks for cross class skills), but I guess that would be too complicated to mirror in a computer game... The class requirements are imo a pretty good thing...

... I suspect this is how NWN is so surprisingly well balanced. Casters also don't really have dedicated caster PrCs, neither Pale Master (apart from very specific cases) nor RDD are a complement to either Wizard or Sorcerer...

Icewind Dale 2 sort of implemented the actual D&D skill system. In that game you could only store a single skill point at level up, mainly for cross class purposes - not quite the PnP half rank but close. In NWN Bioware either wanted to make skill dumping possible, or just did not bother to prevent it. What apparently was too great a technical challenge was reworking the NWN engine to allow Prestige classes that advanced the caster levels of one of the base classes, with the result that there are not any particularly caster-oriened Prcs. Such PRCs do exist in PnP (and NWN2). I am also certainly not saying the balancing consequences of this are bad, just that it was a weird way to achieve balance, and one that comes at the price of creating incentives for cheesy builds that make little role-playing sense, or at least require really contrived backstories to make any sort of RP sense.

Or Druid 39/Monk 1 :)

Perhaps the cheesiest build of them all. I was wondering if it would come up. :)

150 dmg Cleve/Great Cleve criticals obliterating 5-6 ppl at once.

It's about 350 dmg on crit with Tebimar Scythe upgraded by Rizolvir to +10/acid, so you end up Great Cleaving epic mobs like they're diseased gibberlings. From start to stop a plain old Fighter/WM is extremely powerful in HotU. Half-orc with 20 starting STR gets Dev/Over crit at 21st. And yeah, DR is bane of AA. Took 50 arrows and 4 mins to drop HotU demi-lich with fully enchanted bow...

I am inclined to think Scimitar/Rapier the best weapon for WM. Over the long term you get roughly comparable damage to what a Scythe would deal (less damage/crit, but more crits), with no need to waste a feat on Exotic weapons and allowing for the use of a shield for much better AC, and perhaps other useful properties depending on what magical shields offer. The main downside is that you will do much less damage against the crit-immune than a two-handed weapon would, though whether that advantage is worth the loss of AC is doubtful. At least it would be doubtful in a module that is actually difficult. In HoTU it is not as if one actually needs AC to be that high.

Yeah, sure, but what do the Monk levels give long-term? They seem wasted after becoming an archer.

Monk speed bonus for improved kiting.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,019
Pathfinder: Wrath
You can be a gnome/halfling and use the scimitar as a two-handed weapon.


and one that comes at the price of creating incentives for cheesy builds that make little role-playing sense, or at least require really contrived backstories to make any sort of RP sense.

This is a well-known criticism of D&D 3E in general. The way multi-classing works in it makes no sense from an RP stand-point. Whether that is good or not depends on how much you value a "realistic" logical progression of characters/NPCs. There is no denying that it gives way more variety not only for your character, but for enemies and NPCs as well, giving options for a lot of different encounters. Keeping it "realistic" really diminishes the pool of potential combinations, i.e. you'd never be able to pick up a Wizard as a secondary class because casting even a cantrip requires years of study. A Bard also requires years to master an instrument. I've always ignored the inconsistencies because, imo, it makes for a better and more varied system.

Munchkins have existed since forever and will always find ways to cheese, it's not specifically a D&D thing. Eliminating all cheese is probably not possible in any system that isn't mirrored in every aspect (f.e. chess). Josh Sawyer's entire ideology revolves around eliminating cheese and overpowered combinations, but at the end of the day he could only create a very stale, bland system that is devoid of surprise or intricacies (PoE 1.0), which still wasn't without cheese. I am not against trying to make a system without cheese or OP things, but I also recognize how difficult such a thing is and it tends to not bother me so much. Yeah, Baldur's Gate is on the other end of the spectrum, mages being so overpowered they dwarf every other class and they feel pointless. That is not so far away from D&D 2E, though, there was a chart floating around the internet describing each class' power level relative to each other, and things like Cleric, Wizard, Druid etc. were god-tier, while things like Fighters, Paladins, Monks were in the "barely viable" category. I don't think that's a good thing either, as it relegates a lot of classes to mistakes or to be forgotten, and playing the same classes over and over again is lame.

I'd say DA:O is the perfect example of one class domination. The entire system has only 3 classes, but mages are still ridiculously overpowered compared to warriors or rogues. I don't mind this, however, as the setting and some of the ideas behind it hinge on mages being more powerful than everyone else and requiring to be chained and controlled. I don't know where I'm going with this, lol. My point is that while NWN does promote cheesy builds it's not to the detriment of the whole system. Druid 39/Monk 1 is hardly an unimaginable powerhouse which no-one else can match. Since you say that Bioware had trouble with increasing caster levels on a base class with a PrC, then I think that strengthens my position that things like PM and RDD were implemented with the knowledge that mostly melee builds would want them and that their prerequisites curb the power level of such melees. The only way to "cheat the system" is basically a Bard/RDD/WM, where each class adds to the overall melee power.

Monk speed bonus for improved kiting.

Meh, I think you lose far too many things for too little benefit for it to be a good choice. I might be wrong, though.

EDIT: Here's a repost of the tiers in 3E -

The following is a repost of something I made over on the WotC forums. I'm not exactly sure which forum to put it on, as it's intended for a variety of purposes. It's here mostly because I'd like to get some feedback from knowledgeable minds, but it's also a useful tool, much like a handbook, and available for use.

My general philosophy is that the only balance that really matters in D&D is the interclass balance between the various PCs in a group. If the group as a whole is very powerful and flexible, the DM can simply up the challenge level and complexity of the encounters. If it's weak and inflexible, the DM can lower the challenge level and complexity. Serious issues arise when the party is composed of some members which are extremely powerful and others which are extremely weak, leading to a situation where the DM has two choices: either make the game too easy for the strong members, or too hard for the weak members. Neither is desireable. Thus, this system is created for the following purposes:

1) To provide a ranking system so that DMs know roughly the power of the PCs in their group

2) To provide players with knowledge of where their group stands, power wise, so that they can better build characters that fit with their group.

3) To help DMs who plan to use house rules to balance games by showing them where the classes stand before applying said house rules (how many times have we seen DMs pumping up Sorcerers or weakening Monks?).

4) To help DMs judge what should be allowed and what shouldn't in their games. It may sound cheesy when the Fighter player wants to be a Half Minotaur Water Orc, but if the rest of his party is Druid, Cloistered Cleric, Archivist, and Artificer, then maybe you should allow that to balance things out. However, if the player is asking to be allowed to be a Venerable White Dragonspawn Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer and the rest of the party is a Monk, a Fighter, and a Rogue, maybe you shouldn't let that fly.

5) To help homebrewers judge the power and balance of their new classes. Pick a Tier you think your class should be in, and when you've made your class compare it to the rest of the Tier. Generally, I like Tier 3 as a balance point, but I know many people prefer Tier 4. If it's stronger than Tier 1, you definitely blew it.

Psionic classes are mostly absent simply because I don't have enough experience with them. Other absent classes are generally missing because I don't know them well enough to comment, though if I've heard a lot about them they're listed in itallics. Note that "useless" here means "the class isn't particularly useful for dealing with situation X" not "it's totally impossible with enough splat books to make a build that involves that class deal with situation X." "Capable of doing one thing" means that any given build does one thing, not that the class itself is incapable of being built in different ways. Also, "encounters" here refers to appropriate encounters... obviously, anyone can solve an encounter with purely mechanical abilities if they're level 20 and it's CR 1.

Also note that with enough optimization, it's generally possible to go up a tier, and if played poorly you can easily drop a few tiers, but this is a general averaging, assuming that everyone in the party is playing with roughly the same skill and optimization level. As a rule, parties function best when everyone in the party is within 2 Tiers of each other (so a party that's all Tier 2-4 is generally fine, and so is a party that's all Tier 3-5, but a party that has Tier 1 and Tier 5s in it may have issues).

The Tier System

Tier 1: Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers at high levels. These guys, if played well, can break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Examples: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Archivist, Artificer, Erudite

Tier 2: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

Examples: Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion, Binder (with access to online vestiges)

Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

Examples: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psionic Warrior

Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Examples: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher Variant)

Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths. DMs may have to work to avoid the player feeling that their character is worthless unless the entire party is Tier 4 and below. Characters in this tier will often feel like one trick ponies if they do well, or just feel like they have no tricks at all if they build the class poorly.

Examples: Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight

Tier 6: Not even capable of shining in their own area of expertise. DMs will need to work hard to make encounters that this sort of character can contribute in with their mechanical abilities. Will often feel worthless unless the character is seriously powergamed beyond belief, and even then won't be terribly impressive. Needs to fight enemies of lower than normal CR. Class is often completely unsynergized or with almost no abilities of merit. Avoid allowing PCs to play these characters.

Examples: CW Samurai, Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner

And then there's the Truenamer, which is just broken (as in, the class was improperly made and doesn't function appropriately).

Now, obviously these rankings only apply when mechanical abilities are being used... in a more social oriented game where talking is the main way of solving things (without using diplomacy checks), any character can shine. However, when the mechanical abilities of the classes in question are being used, it's a bad idea to have parties with more than two tiers of difference.

It is interesting to note the disparity between the core classes... one of the reasons core has so many problems. If two players want to play a nature oriented shapeshifter and a general sword weilder, you're stuck with two very different tiered guys in the party (Fighter and Druid). Outside of core, it's possible to do it while staying on close Tiers... Wild Shape Variant Ranger and Warblade, for example.

Note that a few classes are right on the border line between tiers. Duskblade is very low in Tier 3, and Hexblade is low in Tier 4. Fighter is high in Tier 5, and CW Samurai is high in Tier 6 (obviously, since it's pretty much strictly better than the same tier Warrior).

JaronK
 
Last edited:

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You can be a gnome/halfling and use the scimitar as a two-handed weapon.


and one that comes at the price of creating incentives for cheesy builds that make little role-playing sense, or at least require really contrived backstories to make any sort of RP sense.

This is a well-known criticism of D&D 3E in general. The way multi-classing works in it makes no sense from an RP stand-point. Whether that is good or not depends on how much you value a "realistic" logical progression of characters/NPCs. There is no denying that it gives way more variety not only for your character, but for enemies and NPCs as well, giving options for a lot of different encounters. Keeping it "realistic" really diminishes the pool of potential combinations, i.e. you'd never be able to pick up a Wizard as a secondary class because casting even a cantrip requires years of study. A Bard also requires years to master an instrument. I've always ignored the inconsistencies because, imo, it makes for a better and more varied system.

Munchkins have existed since forever and will always find ways to cheese, it's not specifically a D&D thing. Eliminating all cheese is probably not possible in any system that isn't mirrored in every aspect (f.e. chess). Josh Sawyer's entire ideology revolves around eliminating cheese and overpowered combinations, but at the end of the day he could only create a very stale, bland system that is devoid of surprise or intricacies (PoE 1.0), which still wasn't without cheese. I am not against trying to make a system without cheese or OP things, but I also recognize how difficult such a thing is and it tends to not bother me so much. Yeah, Baldur's Gate is on the other end of the spectrum, mages being so overpowered they dwarf every other class and they feel pointless. That is not so far away from D&D 2E though, there was a chart floating around the internet, describing each class' power level relative to each other and things like Cleric, Wizard, Druid etc. were god-tier, while things like Fighters, Paladins, Monks were in the "barely viable" category. I don't think that's a good thing either, as it relegates a lot of classes to mistakes or to be forgotten, and playing the same classes over and over again is lame.

I'd say DA:O is the perfect example of one class domination. The entire system has only 3 classes, but mages are still ridiculously overpowered compared to warriors or rogues. I don't mind this, however, as the setting and some of the ideas behind it hinge on mages being more powerful than everyone else and requiring to be chained and controlled. I don't know where I'm going with this, lol. My point is that while NWN does promote cheesy builds it's not to the detriment of the whole system. Druid 39/Monk 1 is hardly an unimaginable powerhouse which no-one else can match. Since you say that Bioware had trouble with increasing caster levels on a base class with a PrC, then I think that strengthens my position that things like PM and RDD were implemented with the knowledge that mostly melee builds would want them and that their prerequisites curb the power level of such melees. The only way to "cheat the system" is basically a Bard/RDD/WM, where each class adds to the overall melee power.

Monk speed bonus for improved kiting.

Meh, I think you lose far too many things for too little benefit for it to be a good choice. I might be wrong, though.

EDIT: Here's a repost of the tiers in 3E -

The following is a repost of something I made over on the WotC forums. I'm not exactly sure which forum to put it on, as it's intended for a variety of purposes. It's here mostly because I'd like to get some feedback from knowledgeable minds, but it's also a useful tool, much like a handbook, and available for use.

My general philosophy is that the only balance that really matters in D&D is the interclass balance between the various PCs in a group. If the group as a whole is very powerful and flexible, the DM can simply up the challenge level and complexity of the encounters. If it's weak and inflexible, the DM can lower the challenge level and complexity. Serious issues arise when the party is composed of some members which are extremely powerful and others which are extremely weak, leading to a situation where the DM has two choices: either make the game too easy for the strong members, or too hard for the weak members. Neither is desireable. Thus, this system is created for the following purposes:

1) To provide a ranking system so that DMs know roughly the power of the PCs in their group

2) To provide players with knowledge of where their group stands, power wise, so that they can better build characters that fit with their group.

3) To help DMs who plan to use house rules to balance games by showing them where the classes stand before applying said house rules (how many times have we seen DMs pumping up Sorcerers or weakening Monks?).

4) To help DMs judge what should be allowed and what shouldn't in their games. It may sound cheesy when the Fighter player wants to be a Half Minotaur Water Orc, but if the rest of his party is Druid, Cloistered Cleric, Archivist, and Artificer, then maybe you should allow that to balance things out. However, if the player is asking to be allowed to be a Venerable White Dragonspawn Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer and the rest of the party is a Monk, a Fighter, and a Rogue, maybe you shouldn't let that fly.

5) To help homebrewers judge the power and balance of their new classes. Pick a Tier you think your class should be in, and when you've made your class compare it to the rest of the Tier. Generally, I like Tier 3 as a balance point, but I know many people prefer Tier 4. If it's stronger than Tier 1, you definitely blew it.

Psionic classes are mostly absent simply because I don't have enough experience with them. Other absent classes are generally missing because I don't know them well enough to comment, though if I've heard a lot about them they're listed in itallics. Note that "useless" here means "the class isn't particularly useful for dealing with situation X" not "it's totally impossible with enough splat books to make a build that involves that class deal with situation X." "Capable of doing one thing" means that any given build does one thing, not that the class itself is incapable of being built in different ways. Also, "encounters" here refers to appropriate encounters... obviously, anyone can solve an encounter with purely mechanical abilities if they're level 20 and it's CR 1.

Also note that with enough optimization, it's generally possible to go up a tier, and if played poorly you can easily drop a few tiers, but this is a general averaging, assuming that everyone in the party is playing with roughly the same skill and optimization level. As a rule, parties function best when everyone in the party is within 2 Tiers of each other (so a party that's all Tier 2-4 is generally fine, and so is a party that's all Tier 3-5, but a party that has Tier 1 and Tier 5s in it may have issues).

The Tier System

Tier 1: Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers at high levels. These guys, if played well, can break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Examples: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Archivist, Artificer, Erudite

Tier 2: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

Examples: Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion, Binder (with access to online vestiges)

Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

Examples: Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard, Swordsage, Binder (without access to the summon monster vestige), Wildshape Varient Ranger, Duskblade, Factotum, Warblade, Psionic Warrior

Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Examples: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher Variant)

Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths. DMs may have to work to avoid the player feeling that their character is worthless unless the entire party is Tier 4 and below. Characters in this tier will often feel like one trick ponies if they do well, or just feel like they have no tricks at all if they build the class poorly.

Examples: Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight

Tier 6: Not even capable of shining in their own area of expertise. DMs will need to work hard to make encounters that this sort of character can contribute in with their mechanical abilities. Will often feel worthless unless the character is seriously powergamed beyond belief, and even then won't be terribly impressive. Needs to fight enemies of lower than normal CR. Class is often completely unsynergized or with almost no abilities of merit. Avoid allowing PCs to play these characters.

Examples: CW Samurai, Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner

And then there's the Truenamer, which is just broken (as in, the class was improperly made and doesn't function appropriately).

Now, obviously these rankings only apply when mechanical abilities are being used... in a more social oriented game where talking is the main way of solving things (without using diplomacy checks), any character can shine. However, when the mechanical abilities of the classes in question are being used, it's a bad idea to have parties with more than two tiers of difference.

It is interesting to note the disparity between the core classes... one of the reasons core has so many problems. If two players want to play a nature oriented shapeshifter and a general sword weilder, you're stuck with two very different tiered guys in the party (Fighter and Druid). Outside of core, it's possible to do it while staying on close Tiers... Wild Shape Variant Ranger and Warblade, for example.

Note that a few classes are right on the border line between tiers. Duskblade is very low in Tier 3, and Hexblade is low in Tier 4. Fighter is high in Tier 5, and CW Samurai is high in Tier 6 (obviously, since it's pretty much strictly better than the same tier Warrior).

JaronK
Seen the same thing on 1d4chan, can't entirely disagree.

Kinda makes me wonder why people like wizards, making everything a trivial encounter seems not very fun.
 

rogueknight333

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You can be a gnome/halfling and use the scimitar as a two-handed weapon.

Yes, one of the lesser known advantages of gnome/halflings is being able to combine scimitar crit bonuses with two-handed strength bonuses. They have to give up using a shield to do it, though, thus losing what is normally one of the main advantages of the scimitar over, e.g., a scythe.

This is a well-known criticism of D&D 3E in general...

True enough, what I am saying is not exactly new, or anything that lends itself to an easy solution. Ideally, I would prefer a system in which the game mechanics and role-playing/lore complemented each other rather than working at cross purposes (if nothing else it is very confusing to new players when what the classes are actually good for bears little relation to the lore/flavor surrounding them), but achieving that, without creating a host of other problems, naturally tends to be a counsel of perfection.

Monk speed bonus for improved kiting.

Meh, I think you lose far too many things for too little benefit for it to be a good choice. I might be wrong, though.

In case it was not clear, my point was simply that using Monk does in fact offer that advantage, and that is presumably the primary motive for the inclusion of monk levels in an AA build. Whether it is actually a good reason (i.e. woth the downsides) is a different question.
 

Nerevar

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Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
Currently going through SF:2 for the second time with a Pal/Sorc/RDD (the class quests are awesome) for my character I will take into the 3rd chapter the game is much easier the 2nd time around maybe because I know how much supplies to bring and the Paladin having much better saves.

I found this old build called Blood and Faith Cleric26/Bard 4/RDD 10 (has anyone played this build?) it seems super strong I can understand why people say Wiz Cleric and Druid are the most powerful classes. Divine favour turning into a dragon or IGMS a normal warrior just cannot compete.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Eh, forget dragon. Gets stuck way too much and is vulnerable. Good mainly for role-playing. A regular Shapechange: Iron Golem is much more practical.
 

Lacrymas

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Wizards and co. aren't nearly as powerful in NWN as in the tabletop. They didn't implement everything they can do (which is everything).
 

Nerevar

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Just doing some testing and came across this.

5Rdg6L.jpg


Last time I checked 46 is more than 37 what happened here?
 

Kaldurenik

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Divinity: Original Sin
So what ones are good now days. I have nothing against a good dungeon crawl but i would prefer if the module have good writing / story?
 

Jimbob

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Oh it's great to see NWN is still kicking, I found the second one really difficult to get into - the opening story was poor and the game was poor optimised in general.

Still, i'm feeling like another playthrough of number 1 - top ten games of all time!
 

Nerevar

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Oh it's great to see NWN is still kicking, I found the second one really difficult to get into - the opening story was poor and the game was poor optimised in general.

Still, i'm feeling like another playthrough of number 1 - top ten games of all time!

I agree 100% whenever I install NWN 2 it just feels like I am playing a gutted version of NWN 1. What they couldn't afford DEV crit or any of the good spells from NWN 1? Whoever decided to try to "balance" NWN2 needs a bullet. This makes melee builds 100% worthless (except for cleric) and crits and sneak attack can be cancelled completely with a spell?

If you give someone the ability to be a badass on the first game having a skeleton hand, dragon wings, being able to stop time and have spells that scale with your caster level no matter what if you remove it on the second game people won't like it. Also the pathfinding was garbage if you play in driving cam you constantly get caught behind invisible barriers and rubberband back across the map even when playing single player off-line and this was hard coded into the game. Stopping class AB progression at level 20 is one of the best things about NWN 1 because it lets you have more freedom for fun builds.
 

Nerevar

N'wah
Patron
Repressed Homosexual
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Messages
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Balmora
Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
They are okay for PVE I guess but no dev crit and immunity to KD being easy to get? I mean melee was already bad but at least on NWN1 it could be competitive with dev crit and kd, I guess it is balanced by the spells being poo poo on NWN 2. But instead of playing a game with bad melee and bad spells I could just go back to NWN1.

It doesn't even have acid sheath and the IGMS only hits a person 10 times where do the rest of the missiles go? Makes no sense.

Edit: I am aware that they gave you weapons with loads of elemental damage to try to make up for a gutting melee. But it isn't enough.
 

C.H.A.R.L.I.E

Educated
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May 29, 2011
Messages
58
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Multicultural socialist utopia
are there still any active arena servers for either NWN 1 or NWN2 (or any good servers in general?)
Indeed there is! Prisoners of the Mist (POTM) is very much alive and kicking. It's a RP server - have a look here for more info:

nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php

Right now it's a bit quiet though because there is a major server update incoming and alot of players are on the testserver helping devs find bugs.
 

Jimbob

Literate
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Messages
5
They are okay for PVE I guess but no dev crit and immunity to KD being easy to get? I mean melee was already bad but at least on NWN1 it could be competitive with dev crit and kd, I guess it is balanced by the spells being poo poo on NWN 2. But instead of playing a game with bad melee and bad spells I could just go back to NWN1.

Agree with this completely.

I normally have two PCs, my crazy specced game/dev dream machine and a small portable job. I swap them out every year or so.

Sometimes I go 2 or 3 years forgetting that NWN 1 exists, then I grab it from GoG, install it on my lesser PC and am always chuffed that it runs 60fps with everything maxed out.

NVN 1 will never get old for me, it's ageless; a fantastic portable interactive vertical slice of D&D - love it! Still haven't completed all the expansions. Omg getting excited!!!

(Level 10 Sorcerer/Level 10 Warrior/Level 10+ Dragon Disciple for the win!!)
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,019
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm planning another attempt at a Shifter in Swordflight, but I can't make up my mind on what is best. I've narrowed it down to 3 interesting builds - a halfling Druid/Shifter/CoT (or maybe Blackguard?), a human Druid/Shifter/Weapon Master or a dwarf Druid/Shifter/Dwarven Defender. I think the CoT build is the most standard and straightforward, the Dwarven Defender is tanky throughout and has quick access to exotic weapon proficiency for focus on scythes. The Weapon Master build is pretty interesting - you can take another weapon of choice at WM level 13 and it gives you access to exotic weapon proficiency to focus on scythes. I can take the first WoC on spear to make the drider a killing machine and get scythe later for Risen Lord. Thoughts? There are many other builds, too, like with a rogue or such, but I'm thinking about these 3 atm.
 
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Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,332
Location
Massachusettes
I played a Champion of Torm in the Eye of the Beholder II module and killed the dragonshape-boss in one attempt, as opposed to the 20 attempts it took me to kill the beholder at the end of Eye of the Beholder I. I felt it was a build that was a little overpowered if you ask me.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,019
Pathfinder: Wrath
This is what I came up with for Druid/Shifter/Weapon Master. It's incredibly feat starved so I'm not sure if it's worth it -

Human

16 STR
14 (or 13) DEX
10 (or 8) CON
14 (or 16) WIS
14 (or 13) INT
8 CHA

I prefer the first spread. Make sure you get 4 ranks of Intimidate before lvl 16, put everything into STR

1 Dr Dodge, Mobility
2 Dr
3 Dr Alertness
4 Dr
5 Dr
6 Sh Expertise
7 Sh
8 Sh
9 Sh Weapon Focus: Spear
10 Sh
11 Dr
12 Dr Spring Attack
13 Sh
14 Sh
15 Sh Whirlwind Attack
16 WM Weapon of Choice: Spear
17 WM
18 WM Exotic Weapon Proficiency
19 WM
20 Sh
21 Sh Undead Shape
22 WM
23 WM
24 WM Weapon Focus: Scythe
25 WM
26 WM
27 WM Improved Critical: Scythe
28 WM
29 WM
30 WM Power Attack, Weapon of Choice: Scythe
31 WM
32 WM
33 WM Cleave, Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
34 WM
35 WM
36 WM Great Cleave, Overwhelming Critical: Scythe
37 WM
38 WM
39 WM Epic Prowess, Devastating Critical: Scythe
40 WM (or Sh for epic Minotaur, Harpy and Gargoyle)

Some of the feats can be juggled around through the levels to make them more useful for longer, but that's it, you need all of them. You can skip the scythe criticals, but why would you? Might as well go for another build. You can also take the 7 Druid levels before going to Shifter, but it delays your forms/drider. I tried without them, but the stat gains don't line up well and it's impossible to get enough STR for the feat requirements due to the feat progression. Thoughts?
 
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