Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Grimoire Thread

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,823
It's amusing how so many people that probably have just played for a handful of hours here are shunning Felipe's opinions about the game.

I never disputed his individuals criticisms, merely his claim that Grimoire is exceptionally broken and unfinished compared to its contemporaries. For example, The Legacy: Realm of Terror is a favorite with real time blobber fpp aficionados here. But you don't see much affection for it from Alec Meer's retro review at RPS

So there I am, punching a zombie in the face by clicking on these two little buttons, dealing out a minute amount of damage per successful thump. The zombie only hits back once every ten seconds or so, but whenever he does he demolishes a good quarter of my health bar. Bloody zombies. Bloody Legacy. Now I remember why I never finished this game – it’s ridiculously hard.
...
Every now and then, I lose most of my health bar. Or all of it, which means I have to remember to save often. Old games have such little pity for their frail players. In one room, I plunge suddenly through the floor to a cellar area below. I lose half my health bar. Against one wall of the cellar, there’s a weird blue glow. I should know better really, given this game’s sadistic tendencies, but I stumble into it. Zap! And I’m in another dimension, just like that. It’s hard not to admire Legacy’s excess. It’s crude and confused, but it’s got a portal to another dimension in the basement. More games should have portals to other dimensions in the basement. Trouble is, my weak-minded soldier freaks out about his reckless hopping through time and space, his mental anguish somehow removing another quarter of his severely diminished health. Well, this is no fun.

Forced fear’s an odd mechanism to have in a game. True, it’s something to consider other than the usual health and energy and ammo, and is a potentially ingenious way of ensuring the player doesn’t feel like some detached super-human meathead. At the same time, if what’s scaring the character isn’t remotely unnerving the player, it’s just an annoyance. A beastie jumping out of the darkness I could understand, but I – and thus my character – chose to walk through that blue hole in the wall. So this kind of punishment just feels unfair, like I’m being penalised for having fun. Well, one thing I’m not doing is having fun. Maybe I’m spoilt by modern standards and associated snobbishess, but certainly this revisit to a game from my childhood has turned entirely sour by now.

Wandering through the blue ether, I’m suddenly approached by a two-mouthed Lovecraftian demon thingy. If only I could talk to the monster. But I can’t. I can only punch and punch and punch and punch and punch. It does nothing as I do so, least of all die. Around thirty punches in, it decides to finally take a bite out of me. Just the one. And that’s it. All over. I don’t bother to reload a save game this time, and with a sigh I exit. I had hoped I’d unearth an overlooked classic, but all I found was a peculiarly awkward evolutionary step between text adventures and cRPGs. You shouldn’t always go back.

^ this is a preview of Felipe's Grimoire review. RPS Codex.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,246
Location
Ingrija
Reminder to the senile aisle that 90% of RPGs in the "golden age" of the 80's were Ultima or Dungeon Master clones. And 99% of them were either Tolkien or Sci-fi. Often both.

And that today we still have RPG trying different things - stuff like Age of Decadence, NEO Scavenger, Lords of Xulima, Sunless Sea, Expedition: Conquistador, Dex, Dragon's Dogma, etc...

Of course, if you're too "open-minded" to play any game that tries creative ideas, then you won't see creative ideas.

This is not about "open-mindedness" and "creativity", man. This is about not having any rules to adhere. A concept utterly alien to those who don't know any life outside rules, I know.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
This is not about "open-mindedness" and "creativity", man. This is about not having any rules to adhere. A concept utterly alien to those who don't know any life outside rules, I know.
Bullshit. The past five years had a wider range of RPGs than any other period in time. You can play anything, from AAA mainstream productions to nostalgia-grabbing crowdfunded stuff to bold indie projects to crazy foreign imports.

You want games that "break the rules" - but only those that don't to it enough to break out of your narrow comfort zone. We need a "bold" sequel to Wizardry, but it can't be Strangers in Sword City, Elminage: Gothic, Generation Xth or any other JRPG because then the art breaks YOUR rules.
 

PhantasmaNL

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,653
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria
The Legacy ridiculously hard?

Lol, even i could finish it.

It is an excellent game though not very balanced.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,246
Location
Ingrija
This is not about "open-mindedness" and "creativity", man. This is about not having any rules to adhere. A concept utterly alien to those who don't know any life outside rules, I know.
Bullshit. The past five years had a wider range of RPGs than any other period in time. You can play anything, from AAA mainstream productions to nostalgia-grabbing crowdfunded stuff to bold indie projects to crazy foreign imports.

And they all play the fucking same, LOL. Unless hipster "bullet hell" (slow enough for your grandma to succeed, ofc). :roll:

You want games that "break the rules" - but only those that don't to it enough to break out of your narrow comfort zone. We need a "bold" sequel to Wizardry, but it can't be Strangers in Sword City, Elminage: Gothic, Generation Xth or any other JRPG because then the art breaks YOUR rules.

Other than being pedo cartoons, what's "bold" about being 79th reskin of Proving Grounds shat out in the japanese sweatshops during this year alone?

I wish international patent law had been a bit more stringent about ripping off game design. Woodhead could have tanked the entire Japanese economy deeper than Zimbabwe with his lawsuits.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,912
3Qtfv34.png


:salute:
 

:Flash:

Arcane
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
6,483
Case in point, CRPGaddict (that's why I mentioned him in the beginning). I was following his playthrough of Fate: Gates of Dawn, a legendary game I just couldn't find the resolve to play to an end myself. He lauded some things, but mostly he complained. He complained a lot. And the reasoning of his complaints can be summed up to "this awful game dares to do shit differently than I am used to".
I think you're being unfair to the CRPGaddict here. He praised the first part of Fate, and criticized the latter, which even the developer admitted he had to rush due to time constraints. The first part is just as distinct from a modern experience, and he still praised it a lot.
CRPGAddict said:
Fate: Quest of the Cavetrain is a solid 54-point game, 9th-highest on my blog so far, better than everything except titles that offer extensive side-quests and more detailed role-playing options, and an obvious candidate for 1991's "Game of the Year." Don't cheat yourself out of this excellent game. Just don't worry about where the Cavetrain leads.

If someone complains about the post-council part of Divine Divinity it's not because he doesn't understand the game, it's because he understands it and sees that there is a drop in quality (readily admitted by the developer) and the same seems to be true for Fate.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,668
Do I think it is great? Yes. What do I think of the splash page with the Golden Baby? That took Balls, or quite some autism. I have to smile every time I see it. Is it developed by just one man? Certainly, you can spot exactly what buttons he pushed to play the game, because that's the only way it works. Did he have any other testers? No, see previous. Does he have Vision? Yes, certainly. Lots. Is it a finished product? No, definitely not. Is it more playable than most other, current games? YES!

Actually, it plays more like M&M than Wizardry. And that's a good thing. So, comparing it to 90s CRPG's, it's actually pretty mainstream and forgiving. Except for the horrible UI, of course. And it would be an improvement if you didn't have to reload every five minutes at the start.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Bullshit. The past five years had a wider range of RPGs than any other period in time. You can play anything, from AAA mainstream productions to nostalgia-grabbing crowdfunded stuff to bold indie projects to crazy foreign imports.
And they all play the fucking same, LOL.
Congratulations on going full retard.
Grimiore really pushes people over the limit of common sense.

This is not about "open-mindedness" and "creativity", man. This is about not having any rules to adhere. A concept utterly alien to those who don't know any life outside rules, I know.
Bullshit. The past five years had a wider range of RPGs than any other period in time. You can play anything, from AAA mainstream productions to nostalgia-grabbing crowdfunded stuff to bold indie projects to crazy foreign imports.

And they all play the fucking same, LOL.
Because Witcher 3 plays the same as Divinity OS and Neo Scavenger. Now either mondblut is just trolling us or he has lost his mind.
 

bataille

Arcane
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
1,073
Damn, mondblut laying it like it is.
I've been having the exact same rant for years, albeit about cinema, and have probably clocked more than there are hours in Grimoire doing it.

So, I read it, and then wanted to say something like 'But it's a game, who cares! I want a wizardry with well-rounded gameplay! I don't have time for this'.
But then I remembered all the fruitless conversations where I defended plotless, unstructured, wordless, imageless or in a thousand ways avantgarde films in front of some clueless not-cinema-lovers that, at best, cared somewhat about the conventional narratives and maybe heard something about jump cuts or dolly zoom shots. And that's where I went 'oooh, I see'. Even walls of text are not enough if you can't relate to the same passion.
Heh.
 

Baff

Cipher
Patron
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
614
Location
Dark Side of the Earth
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
From my own experience (150 hours and counting) and from reading lots of comments here and elsewhere, I think a majority of the "balance" issues would go away if EXP was fixed. Cleve has admitted EXP is an issue and will be worked on it at some future point, hopefully before he wastes time tweaking lots of other balance issues. People who have finished the game say they max out around level 10. Cleve said during the beta way back when that the max was around level 27. I believe he said shortly before release that he expected people to finish the game around level 20. I think he also said his test party was level 20.

Typical complaints:
1. Item X is way more powerful than anything else my characters can do. Reason: Your characters should have been higher level when they found that item.
2. Endgame boss is way overpowered, I had to cheese the fight. Reason: Your chars should have been level 20, not level 10.
3. Multi-classing is impossible...

I think he should make fixing EXP a high priority, certainly much higher than fixing any other balance issues (which might become irrelevant once EXP is fixed).
 

Konjad

Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
4,080
Location
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Australia is not real. It's a hoax, made for us to believe that Britain moved over their criminals to someplace. In reality, all these criminals were loaded off the ships into the waters, drowning before they could see land ever again. It's a coverup for one of the greatest mass murders in history, made by one of the most prominent empires.

Australia does not exist. All things you call "proof" are actually well fabricated lies and documents made by the leading governments of the world. Your Australian friends? They're all actors and computer generated personas, part of the plot to trick the world.

If you think you've ever been to Australia, you're terribly wrong. The plane pilots are all in on this, and have in all actuality only flown you to islands close nearby - or in some cases, parts of South America, where they have cleared space and hired actors to act out as real Australians.

Australia is one of the biggest hoaxes ever created, and you have all been tricked. Join the movement today, and make it known that they have been deceived. Make it known, that this has all just been a cover-up. The things these "Australian" says to be doing, all these swear words and actions based on alcoholism, MDMA and bad decisions, are all ways to distract you from the ugly truth that is one of the greatest genocides in history. 162,000 people was said to have been transported to this imaginary land during a mere 80 years, and they are all long dead by now. They never reached that promised land. Tell the truth. Stand up for what is right. Make sure to spread the world - Australia is not real. It's a codeword for the cold blooded murder of more than a hundred thousand people, and it is not okay. We will not, accept this.

Stand up for the ones who died. Let it be known, that Australia does not exist.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,246
Location
Ingrija
I think you're being unfair to the CRPGaddict here. He praised the first part of Fate, and criticized the latter, which even the developer admitted he had to rush due to time constraints. The first part is just as distinct from a modern experience, and he still praised it a lot.

The Fate experience tends to further deviate from the norm as the hours rack up (same has been already said about Grimoire, btw). "Waah, I now have tons of gold and nowhere to spend it (because carefully balanced economy is a Very Important Shit and crucial staple of CRPG design in 1992)". "Waah, the monsters in X are totally unkillable by my party (because the secondary character development system completely detached from the levels and skillpoints I am used to completely went over my head)".

As a matter of fact, post-hoc criticism of absolutely anything 25 years later down the line is meaningless, and the only thing it sheds light upon is the critic himself. Old games are like a distorted mirror - what you perceive as flaws is just you not being there in that time and place to appreciate it when it mattered.
 

Brancaleone

Prophet
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
1,005
Location
Norcia
Nowadays, we got Steven fucking Universe and My Little Pony.
I agree, nowadays the level is lower than the stupidest shit Patterson was able to put in the mouth of a six-year old Calvin.
Therefore, in spite of everything, '80-'90 were still better.
And in spite of this, Hobbes is 100% right.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,198
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
mondblut
I think you're being unfair to the CRPGaddict here. He praised the first part of Fate, and criticized the latter, which even the developer admitted he had to rush due to time constraints. The first part is just as distinct from a modern experience, and he still praised it a lot.
As a matter of fact, post-hoc criticism of absolutely anything 25 years later down the line is meaningless, and the only thing it sheds light upon is the critic himself. Old games are like a distorted mirror - what you perceive as flaws is just you not being there in that time and place to appreciate it when it mattered.

I dunno there are plenty of 25+ years old games that are genuinely shit.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,668
The best advice to give someone new to the game:

1. Make sure you have two warriors up front with as much HP as you can get.
2. Make sure that when you roll chars, you only select the ones with 25+ bonus points, and put all of those into HP.

That makes it nicely playable.
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,886
Location
Water Play Catarinense
2. Endgame boss is way overpowered, I had to cheese the fight. Reason: Your chars should have been level 20, not level 10.
Well, if it was endgame boss it was ok, but
there is no endgame boss, neither endgame villain

And yeah, I agree with the level. I even posted some pages ago how I didn't think I was supposed to get to that point only at level 9. It makes no sense that I should be able to finish the game BEFORE I get to the level where I can multi-class(unless you turn off random encounter and play on novice).
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom