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KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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What does it matter if Pathfinder is a turn based system? Have you seen a lot of RTWP pen & paper systems?
Nothing at all... except, what's point of choosing an existing system if you are planning to butcher it from the start ? Make your own from scratch. I don't mind that.
Also the issue is RtWP being almost always a poor choice in a party-based crpg. Sometimes it almost good, sometimes terribly bad but never really great. So there is no point to it. I am still to play a crpg with good rtwp combat system (and i repeat - combat system, not just interesting encounters and enemies).

I'm kinda torn on the issue honestly, RTwP doesn't really mean anything on its own. Dragon Age Origins was RTwP and it had one of the most enjoyable combat systems, but largely thanks to full party control with fully configurable AI packages and tight encounter design. True TB can get very slow if there are many combatants, and sometimes it just doesn't make sense for that lonely mage to wait for his turn to heal the dying knight.

But yeah, it ultimately depends on the system, different games take different systems. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails miserably. We'll have to wait and see.
You are easily enjoyed then Drog. Good for you i suppose. However that doesn't make people bitching about irrelevant issues when a crucial element of the game is given a pass a any more rational.
And games like ToEE and D:OS shown us how TB is awful when you c/p same encounters all over the map.
It is not like there is a big list of good TB party based fantasy games that show us the way. KotC is the only one that comes to mind and that one lacked in other ways (lack of classes for 1)
 

FeelTheRads

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And games like ToEE and D:OS shown us how TB is awful when you c/p same encounters all over the map.

No, what ToEE showed (did not play D:OS) is that encounters can be bad which is no surprise to anyone.
I don't see how that makes TB awful. The encounters would've been awful whether they were RT or TB.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well-spotted. At least that's a little bit before E3. >_>
 

ArchAngel

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And games like ToEE and D:OS shown us how TB is awful when you c/p same encounters all over the map.

No, what ToEE showed (did not play D:OS) is that encounters can be bad which is no surprise to anyone.
I don't see how that makes TB awful. The encounters would've been awful whether they were RT or TB.
The point is people are bashing real time fantasy party based RPG but they don't have an example of a good one. Well except AoD which is not really fantasy.
So as far as I am concerned bring us more RTwP, at least some of those are excellent.
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
So let me get it straight. We get a rtwp game (of a turn-based system) and the Codex is fapping to it. And the people who are not fapping are bitching about... graphics.
Did i miss something ?

I've seen very little fapping, actually. I've mostly seen people bashing it for being RTwP as if it's some sort of new invention and the infinity games never happened.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
288
I guess it's safe to call it "the shovelware look" as a more broad term.

Russian trash usually goes for a grittier look.

These days usually yes, but here is what Evil Islands looked like:

evil-island-cure-of-the-lost-soul-party.jpg

20080917164630153.jpg

Doesn't this look familiar? :D

Evil Islands is, of course, one of the previous games developed by the guys from Owlcat Games. I remember trying to run it on my shitty rig back when it was released, but it crashed on me. I did like the older Allods series, of which this game is an unfortunately 3D successor.

[EDIT] Apparently the old Allods games were sold as Rage of Mages in the West.
 
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288
except, what's point of choosing an existing system if you are planning to butcher it from the start ? Make your own from scratch. I don't mind that.

I do agree with that. It's a shame that they can't just use the Pathfinder brand to increase sales, and come up with their own system. I believe Baldur's Gate had the same problem.

Or maybe they will come up with their own system? Does anyone know how closely they plan to copy the ruleset?
 

ArchAngel

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except, what's point of choosing an existing system if you are planning to butcher it from the start ? Make your own from scratch. I don't mind that.

I do agree with that. It's a shame that they can't just use the Pathfinder brand to increase sales, and come up with their own system. I believe Baldur's Gate had the same problem.

Or maybe they will come up with their own system? Does anyone know how closely they plan to copy the ruleset?
Why would they want to come up with their own system while using a known brand where people expect certain things?! I think anyone with a brain learned something from a failure called SCL.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
FWIW, it sounds like the demo was very well-received among the PaizonCon audience (47m55s):

 

Father Foreskin

Learned
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Feb 6, 2017
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167
Its good to see a non-american company to have a chance to make a game like this. Its going to be less generic this way. For example they gave Tyrone a bow instead of a spear. Such innovation.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,968
Real-time with pause tho... Looks bland as fuk.
I would not say that. The Giant actually looks the right scale for a change. Looks to me better then all the medium dragons from PoE.

I agree, it looks good. The people complaining would likely also complain if they tried to make it some sort of edgy original art/lore. I think a lot of people here dont actually like RPG or compter games at all anymore. I feel like their hobby has become to just complaini about computer games more than anything else.

Anyway, I like that they are using an established gaming system and world. I think games that do this turn out better than when they also try to create a brand new RPG system along with the game (like PoE). Josh Sawyer made good games when he was 'hamstrung' by D&D.
 
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Real-time with pause tho... Looks bland as fuk.
I would not say that. The Giant actually looks the right scale for a change. Looks to me better then all the medium dragons from PoE.

Giant does indeed look cool, though the texturing is a little flat and uninspired to my tastes. However, I am not a fan of Infinity-styled games. RTwP is a no-no, as is having no direct control over your character - only autopathfinding, and scripts you can inject for your companions. If it goes beyond being a mere Baldur's Gate clone, I will give it a shot. Mechanically, it looks derivative, and nothing about the art style sets it apart. I am not sure how deep the Pathfinding lore and universe go, but that could be the make-it-or-break-it of this game, whether the story and lore are deep enough to give the mechanics place and meaning in a detailed universe. One compliment, I am glad they are not afraid to use gigantic scale creatures in their game. The scale of the giant looks about right, and I love facing enemies that make me pale physically in comparison. A little more detail wouldn't hurt, as something is "off" about the toes and feet. This is on my "wait-and-see" list for now.


you might not buy a game because a giant you actually like the look of does not have enough detail in its toes?
 
Joined
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I don't know if it speaks good or bad about me, but I have no idea what you mean :)

It means getting hung up on inconsequential things like tire textures.

I usually focus on toe detail myself. Sometimes I might also take into account the crook of the elbow-- but if I am being honest I simply CTRL/ALT/DEL immediately if the natural settings completely forget or are too lazy to include gopher and or rabbit holes when the things are hopping about as supposedly immersive examples of a natural habitat. To totally overlook rodent dwellings destroys the immersive feeling I like to have when playing. If they omit these things, what else did they just gloss over as well?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.facebook.com/notes/path...tive-designer-chris-avellone/705297732990609/

Interview with Narrative Designer Chris Avellone

Chris is a senior narrative designer on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. As a veteran of the industry he has worked on titles by Black Isle Studios, including Planescape: Torment, Fallout 2 and the Icewind Dale series. He has also worked on Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II, Neverwinter Nights 2 and Fallout: New Vegas. Recently, he has completed work on Beamdog Studios’ Planescape: Torment – Enhanced Edition and Arkane Studios’ Prey.

18837085_705331662987216_8642331389493244747_o.jpg


We have gathered the community’s most burning questions for Chris about his involvement with Pathfinder: Kingmaker and his thoughts about the Pathfinder universe. Enjoy!

What draws you to the Pathfinder universe?

A few things. The adventure path format (it feels very open-world – go out, explore, find cool things and encounters, and they embrace this in their design), the setting, and the art style, including the iconic characters… I like their character designs very much, and I think Pathfinder is one system that has done a great job in capturing the look and feel of their archetypes and classes.

Which character do you play in tabletop Pathfinder?

In the card game, I usually go with Seoni, Lini, or Lim. In the last Pathfinder game (and this is why I love the system so much), I played a gnome wizard (mostly illusions) con artist who “headed” a band of Ocean’s 11-style thieves (the other players) to pull off heists. I use the term “headed” loosely. We usually got into more trouble than we succeeded, but we had a blast.

Can you tell us about your favourite iconic character?

Even though I usually play other iconic characters, I like Ezren’s backstory the most because it felt unconventional for a wizard, and I liked his persistence and his willingness to shift the course of his life to follow what he believed in.

18891707_705369099650139_7980255721281707781_o.jpg


Why did you choose Kingmaker as the setting for the CRPG? Why the River Kingdoms?

It was the decision made before I came on the project (work had already begun using Kingmaker, and the companions were fleshed out as well – usually biographies and arcs). That said, I don’t have any issues with the setting or the adventure path at all, I think it was a good choice (further confirmed by fan feedback).

I like the Kingmaker adventure path, it makes for an interesting computer role-playing game, the Stolen Lands are a perfect place for building a kingdom from scratch, and even better, the adventure path format gives Owlcat and I “breathing room” to add more narrative and quests without disrupting the classic adventure path itself (for players that know it and love the adventure path, they’ll find plenty of the same characters, areas, and situations, but often with an added element we’ve been able to bring to it on the developer side).

The Kingmaker Adventure Path has its own story. How faithful will the plot of the CRPG be to the AP? Should we prepare for any surprise twists?

Players familiar with the adventure path will be pleased at seeing many of the characters and setting from the pen-and-paper version of Kingmaker, and while there are some changes, I think players will be pleasantly surprised by how these changes complement the existing material – especially the companion interactions and the ways companions interact with some of the elements of the Kingmaker plot.

18839803_705370419650007_544709665280844708_o.jpg

Pathfinder: Kingmaker rewards exploration

Outside of the main plotline, will there be plenty of side quests?

Yes – it’s one of the pillars of Pathfinder to reward exploration, and side quests are a large part of that.

Are we going to encounter iconic characters? Maybe even as companions for our party?

Yes, one of the Pathfinder iconic characters, Amiri, can join your party in Pathfinder. She has some of the best lines in the game so far, and it’s no surprise – she’s fun to write for.

Everybody needs a little love, right? Can we have relationships with our companions?

Yes, but not just romance (just romance is limiting). The companions are with you for a reason, and that reason may change based on your actions – for good or for ill, and they’ll pay attention to your behavior and act accordingly.

18813399_705369372983445_8044821884863268936_n.jpg

Your companions will react to your actions

Being the hero may be fun, but we all know the dark side has cookies. Will there be possibilities to be really, despicably evil?

Yes. And cruel. And cunning. I generally find “smart” evil (ex: talking two enemies into killing each other) to be more fun than demanding more money as a quest reward or being a mass-murderer.

Will our decisions and actions have an impact on the world? Does the story offer replay value, offer different outcomes and endings depending on how we play?

Yes, it’s one of the hallmarks of an RPG, and Kingmaker is no different. We’d like players to play it more than once and get a different experience each time. The companion arcs alone have several options that are shaped throughout the game, and that means the story can change considerably depending on your party composition.

How much creative freedom will we get with quests? Will most of our problems be solved with the sword or will there be alternate, more unorthodox solutions like in tabletop?

Speech and diplomacy (especially in your role in ruling your kingdom) are part of your arsenal, both in the court and on the battlefield. Of course, swordplay is still an option, but you may find other ways to achieve your goals with much different results.

Will companions react to our choices? Let’s say one of our companions is really good, but we keep making evil decisions. Would that companion eventually leave or even betray us?

Yes, alignment clashes (and acting against the principles a companion upholds) would cause them to lose faith in you, leave, or even turn on you. They aren’t simply walking backpacks and stats, they have their own personalities and things they hold dear.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Everybody needs a little love, right? Can we have relationships with our companions?

Yes, but not just romance (just romance is limiting).

So... I can do the sex to them? :bounce:
 

Serus

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Real-time with pause tho... Looks bland as fuk.
I would not say that. The Giant actually looks the right scale for a change. Looks to me better then all the medium dragons from PoE.

I agree, it looks good. The people complaining would likely also complain if they tried to make it some sort of edgy original art/lore. I think a lot of people here dont actually like RPG or compter games at all anymore. I feel like their hobby has become to just complaini about computer games more than anything else.

Anyway, I like that they are using an established gaming system and world. I think games that do this turn out better than when they also try to create a brand new RPG system along with the game (like PoE). Josh Sawyer made good games when he was 'hamstrung' by D&D.
Yeah, the old argument - "i am the true crpg fan and everyone who complains / disagrees with me is not". Well, i'll give you a hint - it doesn't work.

They are not USING an established system. They are butchering one. And who cares about the lore of Pathfinder - it looks as generic as you can get. So i ask again - if you are planning to butcher the system and the lore has little to no value then why bother ? Make your own system, the lore you will come up with almost certainly won't be worse and the system will be made for computers either way. Making it rtwp is really bad but even if you think rtwp is any good why defending the use of a system like Pathfinder ?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Messages
97,518
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm glad this game is being made because it'll test my theory that many people will really only accept a RTwP fantasy RPG that plays like AD&D.
 

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