Fallout NV's factions / characters are retarded?

[Alex]

I find it kind of weird that people try to explain that an "elvis gang" or a "roman soldier faction" in the middle of a nuclear wasteland isn't so implausible. That there might be a way for such groups to happen is besides the point. The point is that they are silly (or, if you prefer, retarded). You could come up with a perfect explanation as to why they exist. It might make perfect sense according to the internal logic of the game; you still made a conscious choice to make a gang based on Elvis Presley. If you didn't want that kind of silliness, you shouldn't have made the group in first place.

I am not even strongly against it; I rather like silliness, although I prefer it without the perceived need to be realistic. I think I would have liked the elvis gang more if they embraced Elvis thoroughly, instead of it just being the clothes and the hairdos. Or you could try to go for the spirit of the original Fallout, in which case I think you shouldn't have an elvis gang in first place. I think, however, the way Fallout: New Vegas did it, where there is lots of silly stuff but it goes out of its way to try to make them plausible is actually a weakness. At the end of the day, you are still silly, but you don't use it to your advantage.

Still, I think this was Obsidian's best game, even though it is full of flaws. The game gives you more to do, to explore and more options to choose than any other they made. And even if the story isn't great, it at least has several way you can influence it, including 4 approaches to the main quest. There are, it is true, lots of things you can complain about in New Vegas, but I think that if you want to argue that New Vegas is overrated, you should start somewhere else than the faction design. If I had a game that mechanically (and by this, I don't mean only combat, but rather gameplay in general) was similar, or at least comparable to Fallout, but its main plot and faction design was shoddy, it would still be quite an accomplishment.

 

[laclongquan]

boy, you are going to have lot of fun in anthropology. In anthropology there's only existence, and NOTexistence. Silly or not is totally beside the point. If it is silly and exist, then give me silly all the time, rather than the serious, logical, and not exist anywhere.

 

[Alex]

Fallout: New Vegas is a work of fiction, not a prediction of what would happen to humanity if technology had progressed differently and there was a nuclear war.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

When the wind ceased to blow in their sails for more epic raids, their glory perished without any heritage left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_dynasty

Many lasting cultural and scientific achievements took place in the Yuan dynasty in China. If you think the Mongols were bloodthirsty Barbarians, you're correct; if you think the Mongols were just bloodthirsty barbarians and nothing more than that, you're wrong.

Modern Mongolia has been stifled by being landlocked and isolated and decades of communist rule. You could say the exact same about any other central Asian nation. Its nothing to do with the Mongols themselves per se, but rather the geographical circumstances. And there were lots of buddhist monasteries and such that were destroyed during the communist years. Its easy to look at the country today and say they have no culture, but they actually did, but much of it is lost now.

 

[laclongquan]

Also, the Mongolians are not purebred Mongol If you count carefully. Not when their conquerors among ancestor bring home lots of concubines. So Khan' Mongol is not modern day Mongol, if you count the way of blood.

 

[aweigh]

NV's factions/characters were probably the strongest out of any RPG of the last two decades and are the best examples of great writing in video games one could hope for.

anyone who doesn't think so is wrong, and also retarded.

 

[an Administrator]

but no one wants to be mongol.

You are wrong

 

[an Administrator]

wtf does all this have to do with fallout game

RPGCodex

 

[HeatEXTEND]

NV's factions/characters were probably the strongest out of any RPG of the last two decades and are the best examples of great writing in video games one could hope for.

anyone who doesn't think so is wrong, and also retarded.

 

[Endemic]

Back on topic, the Khans are actually based on these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongols_Motorcycle_Club

 

[Alt]

I got to admit I might have gone a bit overboard with my criticism of the writing in NV. The Book Chute character is extremely believable indeed.

The character is an amalgam of several concepts from the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. The book chute concept is reminiscent of the "memory holes" present within the "Ministry of Truth" where material that contradicts the current government line are placed never to be located again. The character also makes reference to a form of torture used in later parts of the novel ("a cage that fits over your head and a bag full of mole rats."). Another reference is that the personality matrix for the Chute is recovered from House # 101 in Higg's Village. Room 101 is an infamous room in 1984, in which the main character undergoes torture similar to what the chute describes with such vigor. It also references using the blank books to keep a journal, something the main character of Nineteen Eighty-Four does.

 

[Harry Easter]

Fallout 1 had giant green men with laser guns, the 50ties never ended and robots. If you can swallow that, there is nothing absurd about Elvis or neo-romans. It's easier to see them as symbols or concepts, than as part of an "realistic post-apocalyptic", because ... two-headed cows and giant green men with laser guns.

 

[Commissar Draco]

I am replaying FNV now and its amazing how gameplay varies when you RP follower of faction; Romans in history were not as good guys XVIII/XIX english gentlemen portrayed them (but also not as evil as modern westerners see them neither); there were hard times then and would be even harder one in post-apocalyptic wasteland especially one populated by giant green men armed with lasers and people like Nipton residents; read the comment about this on jewtube with which I agree fully; minor spoliers ahead:

Spoiler

It was never about the prostitution or the gambling. The mayor, the town, the Legion did not kill them because they did drugs or sold sex. Had that been their goal, the Legion could have worked independently. They made an offer to the town. Caps for blood. Blood of the Powder Gangers. Blood of the NCR. They were not forced. The mayor could have said no. The people could have said no to the mayor. They had their choice. They had freedom. They chose to sell the lives of their customers, dealing with an organization they knew was going to kill or enslave these people. Would it have been more honorable for the Legion to respect this deal? Nipton was not merely a town with a brothel. It was a town that had no allegiance beyond caps and fame. The Legion may have executed the Powder Gangers and the NCR, but it was the people of Nipton who killed them through this agreement. For the promise of 8,000 caps. Should the Legion have let the mayor go free? This man who daily risked conflict between the Powder Gangers and NCR, and planned to abandon this town after cashing out the blood money? The Powder Gangers, convicted criminals who paid for their freedom in the blood of their captors and regularly attacked passing caravans? The NCR, who are the direct enemies of the Legion? Or the people of the town, who turned over their authority to a wandering con man in exchange for the promise of economic growth? Who played willing roles in the mayor's deception? They did have the freedom to make bad choices. Not once were any of them forced to let this happen. They chose to invite dangerous people into their town, chose to conspire with slavers and killers. Why should it be surprising that people who lived on betrayal would die by betrayal? This town was stocked with weapons. Shotgun booby traps in a house, not in the hands of a defender. Land mines placed indoors to protect from their neighbors, rather than outdoors to defend from enemies. Military grade robots used to impress women for sex instead of protecting the town. The whole town was a whore, loyal not even to itself. Every member of that town stood alone and CHOSE to let their neighbors, customers, protectors, and family members die. Not one person chose to stop them. This was the result of their choices. Had the Legion not come along, it was only a matter of time before the NCR and the Powder Gangers clashed in the town, and bodies would have piled up either way. This was an amoral town, who played a dangerous game and lost.

Now talk to Raul and you see why Caesar did what he did; can't say I am 100% behind Legion (I am Midewest Brotherhood aka retro futurist techno feudalism fan) but the land must be first cleansed otherwise your end up as NCR; all the Old world vices none of its power or luster. On the other hand helping fixing NCR frack ups is 50% of quests in game which is great from player perspective.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Fallout 1 had giant green men with laser guns, the 50ties never ended and robots. If you can swallow that, there is nothing absurd about Elvis or neo-romans. It's easier to see them as symbols or concepts, than as part of an "realistic post-apocalyptic", because ... two-headed cows and giant green men with laser guns.

Sure and there's also absolutely nothing wrong with how Fallout 2 and 3 p much turned the franchise into a theme park like collection of 50's memes.

If driving fast cars you like,
If low bars you like,
If old hymns you like,
If bare limbs you like,
If Mae West you like,
Or me undressed you like,
Why, nobody will oppose.
When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in-
Truding in nudist parties in
Studios.
Anything goes.

 

[Harry Easter]

Sure and there's also absolutely nothing wrong with how Fallout 2 and 3 p much turned the franchise into a theme park like collection of 50's memes.

Meh. Say what you want about 2, but it deepened the world and through this crazy feel, it finally became it's own world. The references are debatable, but the Enclave were thematically more interesting than the Super Mutants. But maybe there were never much stories to tell: 3 only repeated the first game only with the Enclave and 4 didn't add anything new to the world. Come to think about it, maybe 3 was even too normal to be a good Fallout game. We had the Raiders, we had Mutants, we had the Brotherhood, but nothing that would make you remember the game, except Megaton. Maybe they should have gone really crazy.

It should have ended with 2, but New Vegas brought the whole theme of "old world invading the new world" to a closure. Maybe Van Buren would have done a better job, but we will never know.

 

[Wehraboo]

This is like a continuation of the argument about how terrible Fallout 2 supposedly is. I think it's perfectly reasonable because first off there is a little room in games for humor or general wackiness like for the Elvis guys or the Boomers. Better that than something really dumb like both those groups are the reds and the blues or something, which is what might more realistically happen (bloods, crips).

For guys like brotherhood of steel and the legions these are pretty much just megalomaniacs/larpers who are just waiting for the chance of society falling apart to make their mark on the world. What else will you do if society falls apart? Wait to die, or be a part of rebuilding it, with you at the top?

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Been reading some Skyrim thread on reddit or some other place the other day and one of the posters said that TES is a way more serious series than Fallout.

He's dead, Jim.

 

[Alex]

Been reading some Skyrim thread on reddit or some other place the other day and one of the posters said that TES is a way more serious series than Fallout.

He's dead, Jim.

Well, Daggerfall (I haven't played Arena yet) is a straight fantasy game, whereas the first fallout, even if it had a very different tone, was still based on less serious kinds of fiction. Heck, if you compare Daggerfall to Fallout 2 with the monty python joke and the cameo of brain from Pinky and Brain, it is kinda hard to say this has not been the case for a while.