Whats so good about Castlevania: SotN?

[Damned Registrations]

Has anyone made a hardmode patch for this yet? Seems like a prime candidate, it's got a cult following and the difficulty really only needs some stat tweaks to work (namely, giving enemies way more hp and giving the player way less. And then maybe crippling some of the really OP shit like the better magic spells (just jack up the cost mostly) and a few of the retardedly good weapons (Muramasa, Crissy and Heaven Swords come to mind immediately). Though maybe it's just been programmed in such a way that it'd be a giant pain in the ass.

 

[Murk]

Also, that music and art was verrrrry nice when it came out.

http://youtu.be/8J2ml-w66tk?t=33m24s

I still love this track very much, tho the whole soundtrack is extremely well done.

It was also a game that had a OH MY GOD WHAT factor for many who failed to "equip the glasses" at a particular moment. I just enjoy that I could run around and explore neat weapons, spells, and areas with a very cool aesthetic.

 

[MRY]

The scope, ambition, and audio-visual excellence of the game are harder to appreciate in hindsight. (Also, this was at a time when the inclusion of RPG elements was a novelty itself.) I think the actual gameplay is only so-so and the constant ghosting effect on Alucard is like the 2D equivalent of excessive filters and bloom and lens flare. But basically it's a sprawling, beautiful game with dozens of different things going on that many players will never encounter. It's been like 16 years or whatever since I played it, but didn't it, for example, have a spell system where you had to do fighting-game style combos? And yet it was totally unnecessary to the game. And you could get and level up familiars, maybe? I mean, all of these imbalanced systems and to some degree the lack of focus are why it has problems like long easy hallway levels, but I dunno, it's still got a lot going for it.

I think the minimalism of Super Metroid probably makes it the better game, but there's something baroquely great about SotN's excessiveness.

 

[Murk]

I think the minimalism of Super Metroid probably makes it the better game, but there's something baroquely great about SotN's excessiveness.

While the rest of your post was also accurate, this here is a perfect encapsulation of the two games in that supposed "genre" that really illustrates the differences in feel, atmosphere, and gameplay quite succinctly.

 

[RuySan]

I reached the first bad ending now, and I have to echo some of the sentiments here. I don't know if i'm going to be bothered playing the inverted castle.

The game is nowhere near as good as the DS games and Aria of Sorrow. It is too easy, some parts are too boring, and has many uninteresting bosses. And it also felt as there was much more mandatory backtracking compared to the sequels.

On the other hand, I'm also playing Castlevania IV and having a blast.

 

[PEACH]

Make sure you play GBA's Aria of Sorrow first (easily emulated on anything more powerful than a typewriter). It's already massive over SotN with some genuinely challenging bosses (Death and Balore). Also, Julius.

Second this. Aria is the best of the Metroidvania style Castlevanias. Still prefer 1 and 3 overall, but it's a perfect iteration of the SOTN formula.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

SotN is an amazing game. It started right off where the previous game, Rondo of Blood, ended and added new characters, gameplay, largened the scope, had a cool story, graphics and music. It was good that the whole Castlevania franchise became nothing but SotN clones until people finally got tired of them. Now the director of SotN is making ANOTHER SotN clone that he kickstarted, called Bloodstained.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

 

[Hamster]

So, after finishing Castlevania: Rondo of Blood from PSP collection, which i enjoyed very much, i decided to try supposedly uber awesome Castlevania: SotN. And i don't get it. What is the point of this game? I was exploring the castle for hours and all i get to do is effortlesly killing constantly respawning mobs. It was already too easy in the beginning and after i leveled up and bought good weapon from the Librarian i can kill almost everybody in one hit. Am i doing something wrong?

It was seven years ago?

Curiously, after all these years SotN is the one among Metroidvanias that i remember most fondly due to amazing art and music. I remember other ones having better gameplay, but they were just not as memorable.

Rondo of Blood is still my favourite, the first Castlevania game i ever played. It launched me on an epic marathon of all NES titles, Castlevania 4 and all the DS ones.

 

[Ivan]

is it just me or did anyone else enjoy the simple side scrollers more than the massive castle ones? i think it was the shitty combat i liked least, the exploration was cool though

I remember Portrait of Ruin and something of shadow (the first one) well

 

[Siobhan]

Yeah, I never got the appeal of the Metroidvanias either, they strike me as the weakest incarnation of a really great subgenre. The Metroid games are great (modulo Fusion and Other M; Metroid 2 on the GB has also aged badly, but it has an amazing remake). There's several cool indie metroidvanias (Axiom Verge, Momodora, Hollow Knight, La Mulana). I am also very fond of exploration-based 2D ARPGs like Zelda 2, Rygar, Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu, and Demon's Crest. Heck, I even enjoy subpar entries like Rambo [edit: on the NES]. Yet SotN and its successors never worked for me.

This is even more puzzling because I do like their spiritual predecessors, Vampire Killer on the MSX and Castlevania 2 on the NES. They both already have some of the shortcomings of the later open-world games: enemy placement is lackluster because the designers have to allow for backtracking, and traps are very rare. But they're still much more enjoyable because they keep the powercreep of the RPG mechanics in check, so combat is not trivialized, grinding is of limited use, and exploration is still meaningful because every new item is useful (in contrast to SotN, where 90% of the stuff you find just clutters your inventory). If anything, the Metroidvanias are a perfect example why RPG mechanics with huge power differentials are a horrible fit for most games.

 

[Ivan]

I remember Axiom Verge suffered from having p. shitty combat. though the exploration was very solid. Def check out Guacamelee. It's pretty solid all around. I need to check out Hollow Knight

 

[MrRichard999]

Has anyone made a hardmode patch for this yet? Seems like a prime candidate, it's got a cult following and the difficulty really only needs some stat tweaks to work (namely, giving enemies way more hp and giving the player way less. And then maybe crippling some of the really OP shit like the better magic spells (just jack up the cost mostly) and a few of the retardedly good weapons (Muramasa, Crissy and Heaven Swords come to mind immediately). Though maybe it's just been programmed in such a way that it'd be a giant pain in the ass.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2896/

 

[Morality Games]

i miss castlevania 3...

ok, genuine question. Why is Symphony of the Night credited in the term Metroidvania? Metroid and Super Metroid predate it. Shouldn't Metroid get all the credit?

Super Metroid doesn't have RPG mechanics.

Before you say that, "neither did Castlevania" Castlevania II and some more obscure releases on PCs that never made it to Western consoles did.

It's still kind of a spurious connection because the best and most famous Castlevanias didn't have RPG mechanics, but that is the reason.

 

[dunno lah]

Enough talk

 

[Siobhan]

Super Metroid doesn't have RPG mechanics.

Before you say that, "neither did Castlevania" Castlevania II and some more obscure releases on PCs that never made it to Western consoles did.

At the risk of starting a "what's an RPG" debate: Those RPG mechanics are very limited, and that makes a huge difference. Yes, Castlevania II has a leveling system based on exp, but it's well hidden and you can play the game without ever noticing. In particular if you die a lot, because your level gets reset every time you die. So the only other RPG mechanic is finding items and buying equipment for hearts, but even Mega Man has that. There's some puzzles, but that's neither a necessary nor a sufficient criterion for RPGs.

I agree with you that Vampire Killer and Castlevania II are more RPG-ish, but they're still very different from the Metroidvanias. In some sense the Metroidvanias are closer to Castlevania 3 and Rondo of Blood, which have multiple branches, allow you to switch characters, and at least in the case of RoB also have quite a bit of story.

tl;dr: there's three types of Castlevanias, and it's not a linear continuum but rather a triangle with the platformers in one corner, the early ARPGs/action adventures in the second, and Metroidvanias in the third.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

SotN is kinda like Morrowind. Huge in scope, there's so much shit to do and so many secrets to find, and the production values are amazing.

Yet the gameplay is total horse shit. Completely unbalanced to the point where you can kill bosses in seconds. But the same goes for p much all Metroidvania games, even OoE, where it's so easy to abuse glyph unions.

A good example of a challenging metroidvania is Cave Story. Precisely because you can't grind, so everything is balanced.

 

[Bahamut]

tbh SotN is second worst (with Harmony of dissonance being the worst) Metroidvania, crappy bosses, whole inverted castle felt cheap, but yeah visuals and music where good

 

[moraes]

 

[MRY]

Yes, Castlevania II has a leveling system based on exp, but it's well hidden and you can play the game without ever noticing. In particular if you die a lot, because your level gets reset every time you die.

!!!

Really? I have no recollection of this at all. I wonder if I managed to win despite never leveling (or noticing I'd leveled), or if I've just forgotten.

 

[Siobhan]

Here's the details copy-pasted from RPGClassics. I don't remember if death = continue or if you get multiple lifes per continue.

Aside from their function as currency, hearts are also your source of experience in Castlevania 2. Here's the breakdown of their monetary and experience value.

Heart Monetary value Exp. value

2 hearts 1 exp. point

4 hearts 3 exp. points

6 hearts 5 exp. points
You start the game at Level 0. After gaining a level, the experience counter goes back to 0. Level 6 is the maximum; you will not be able to gain any more experience after reaching it. Also, after gaining levels, hearts gained from enemies in certain locations (mostly easier areas) will no longer give you any experience. A good guideline seems to be to gain one level in each of the Mansions, and two in the final Mansion.

So what exactly do levels do for you? Here's a detailed breakdown.

Level Exp. needed Life Damage taken
0 0 12 100%
1 100 12 75%
2 150 16 50%
3 200 16 25%
4 250 20 12.5%
5 300 20 7.14%
6 350 24 6.25%

Remember that whenever you use a continue, your heart and experience counter will both be reset to 0. So it's in your best interest to try and stay alive. (duh Especially if you're going for the ending that requires you to finish the game within 8 game days. In that case, it's also a good idea to spend time levelling up in the mansions, since time stops when you're inside them.

 

[pippin]

I have never played SOTN since the only console I ever owned was the SNES, but I loved Super Castlevania 4 and Super Metroid. I liked the Genesis Castlevania, but it wasn't a true Castlevania for me since it was too different to the SNES game, same goes for Contra actually. I do not know if I'd enjoy SOTN though. I dunno why, perhaps it's an irrational prejudice, but I hold Super Metroid as one of the best games ever made and the fact that Nintendo completely raped the franchise makes me absolutely butthurt. So anything "Metroidvania" is made thinking about SOTN and not about Metroid and that makes me sad, since from what i've seen most of the things that made it famous were taken from Metroid (they gave it more depth, but my point still stands).

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I hold Super Metroid as one of the best games ever made and the fact that Nintendo completely raped the franchise makes me absolutely butthurt.

I feel you bro, but Fusion and Zero Mission are still p good Metroid games. A bit short, but very fun. Fusion has more brutal combat but is p linear (they put many failsafes against sequence breaking), and Zero Mission is easier (well, except for the Mother Brain), and was actually made with sequence breaking in mind.

Also check out this fan made expansion. It's beyond excellent. Here's a review to get you excited.

 

[Damned Registrations]

SotN is kinda like Morrowind. Huge in scope, there's so much shit to do and so many secrets to find, and the production values are amazing.

Yet the gameplay is total horse shit. Completely unbalanced to the point where you can kill bosses in seconds. But the same goes for p much all Metroidvania games, even OoE, where it's so easy to abuse glyph unions.

A good example of a challenging metroidvania is Cave Story. Precisely because you can't grind, so everything is balanced.

I think Cave Story's challenge lies more in that it isn't open, which kind of disqualifies it too. In SotN, nothing stops you from bee lining for the good shit underground or in some other 'late' area and then crushing the 'early' areas with it (and the piles of xp and life containers you got before intended). In Cave Story, you don't get the machine gun until just before the boss you're meant to fight with the machine gun. (I'd also argue it's not really that different on the difficulty scale, last boss and post-game notwithstanding.) That said, SotN probably hits it's difficulty peak right when you enter the inverted castle and nova skeles can 1 shot you in plenty of rooms. It's hard to make a game difficult for a character that can fly, turn into mist, and cast a bunch of OP spells. Super Metroid has the same problem; after a while you have screen clearing bombs, infinite jumps (that make you invincible and murder shit) and more health than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Silva]

Finally giving this a shot. Still in the beginning (PSP version) but I can see where the criticism comes from. Game is so easy it's almost pointless. And the atmosphere is too light and bombastic in comparison to Castlevania 3 and 4, which are the best ones for me. Yet, the (seemingly) open map, the animations, sprites, portraits, sound effects, etc are really good. There is an artistic flair here that reminds me of Bloodborne. And like Cowboy Moment likes to say of that game, perhaps presentation was also key for SotN's success and popularity, even if the actual gameplay is a mess.