-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP
- Thread starter Kem0sabe
- Start date
Wow, I remember seeing this game years ago when it was kickstarting - hadn't heard about the failure and refunding.
Azazel
Arbiter
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2012
- Messages
- 481
While I agree with you, the squandered potential of that IP and initial use of funds to write a novel instead still irks me.
It seems like it's pretty normal procedure for some kickstarters. Elite: Dangerous, Wasteland 2, Xenonauts etc. all had novels written to establish the setting during development. Heck, Torment: Tides of NumaNuma has, what, 5-6 novels written for it.
Azazel
Arbiter
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2012
- Messages
- 481
He dropped out for months and then admitted he'd been working on a historical romance novel instead of the game and wasn't interested in finishing it due to his new religion. Though it's nice to see he has refunded basically everybody, that's a class act.
Anywho, That Which Sleeps looks rad and I am watching it with interest.
Absalom
Guest
Too long? It was more of a short story if anything
KingDinosaurGames I see you are now looking for artists, a freelance friend of mine does a lot of exotic aliens, I think he could do some nice cosmic horrors.
I like it, passed along to Joe though it may be too high quality compared to our other art ($$$$) - we're mostly focused right now on environmental/map art since that is a fairly heft prerequisite to other assets.
While he mostly does high detail pieces like I showed, he has worked on videogame assets before at a local THQ studio.
Monstrous Bat
Cipher
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 638
Getting the Beta out to our backers is our number one priority now - so no ETA until Beta and the Beta Modding tools are out
Dat parrot though
Everyone should be in the forums by the end of the weekend - we're rolling things out one permission level at a time because I would hate for things to break all at once. If you don't receive an email by Monday you can message me here, via KS, or at our KDG email and we'll get it sorted out.
empyrean
Scholar
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 54
The KDG forums are up! Looks like voting for game content and providing feedback on game features has begun.
Got my mail this morning!
So what's the policy on posting top secret beta backer forum stuffies on the codex? For the sake of argument, what if I posted some of the neato minion art thumbnails? Or quoted bits/all of the map tile discussion post? Is that a no-no or is it 'k?
Last edited:
Malakal -> http://www.kingdinosaurgames.com/
There'san awesome a paypal button for preorder and/or beta stuffies. You'll still need a credit card though. You'll probaly need one after release as well, as the devs haven't said anything about physical copies. 
There's
Got my mail this morning!
So what's the policy on posting top secret beta backer forum stuffies on the codex? For the sake of argument, what if I posted some of the neato minion art thumbnails? Or quoted bits/all of the map tile discussion post? Is that a no-no or is it 'k?
Post to your heart's content, you could even archive and clone the forums for all we care - the main reason we wanted to limit the Beta Backer forum is so that we can have a meaningful discussion with a limited amount of people. I didn't think we could discuss the merits of the art approaches with 5k people all talking in a thread.
Rightoh. In that case I'm going to do the poor potato farmers on the codex a soid and clone the posts from the beta forum so we kan have a Kodex Kritikal Konsensus.
Josh said:We've been working with an amazing artist for our overhauled minion art, and although we are going to go over the modest Stretch Goal amount I feel that the quality we are receiving is worth the cut from another area. In addition, we are thinking of pushing forward with the same artist to overhaul the military icons as well. Please take a look at some of the recent samples.
It's also important to note that Minion/Army units also double as icons for Challenges that result in the relevant gain/loss. We'll need to revisit some of the symbols that mark modifiers on the actual challenges, and also how to denote Unique Minions (we currently use the same gold border that is used far too frequently).
Josh said:This is the majority of the Map Assets we have received. I'm going to break down the types of files so you can have a better idea of what we're looking at, why we're looking at, and what the impact of each approach may be.
As a reminder, we are NOT replacing the POI system - this is for graphical representation only, though we can now take this element further.
2D vs 3D
Most of what you are seeing here is 2D, we do have some 3D samples but we are staying away from 3D terrain for now. I don't think there's any significant gain to be had when you consider the additional hurdles that have to be done to implement it, not to mention the burden it puts on the engine for very little practical gain. I also just think 3D looks terribly bland for terrain in most strategy games of our scale.
Keep in mind that even if we go with 2D terrain, we can still use 3D models or simple 3D representations on top of it for effects - which is partially what we do now.
Sprites vs Terrain
While it's important to look at the entire package together, remember that Sprites and Terrain are distinct and it is easy for us to get artists to copy a given style. If you think terrain looks good in a sample but not the sprite on top of it we can experiment with other solutions - settling on the look of the map (as terrain) first and foremost is the most important element for us.
Hexes
I'm particularly found of Hexes mostly because of the games I've played - but they also offer a great balance between functionality and ease of use. Straight 2D hexes look good, are light-weight on the engine and can easily create more authentic contours to the map. They are also an affordable option, letting us spend more on livening the map up. Downsides are that hexes TEND (though this is not explicitly tied to the type but more to the artists) to be drawn flatter than equivalent tiles and sprites and that they still retain the more generic "procedural" look of games that follow this paradigm.
Tiles
Tiles are just square hexes, simple enough - the difference is that artists who work with tiles more than hexes are generally more interested in computational tricks to enhance variation and increase blend. Again, this is not tied to tiles but is a part of the decision - when we look at tiles we are looking at more texture tricks to make the map work better - which is nice on one level but also increases the load on the engine and requires more upfront time on the development side. It's also "the look" that most games of this type follow, which I'd like to stay away from, but then again there is a reason that this is such a common path - it is easy, it looks goods, and it's highly customizable.
Textures - Splatting
3D - we don't have any good samples to show since we decided after looking at similar types it wasn't worth pursuing. Civ 5 is an example, though you can also look at Endless Legend for a game that did it a little differently.
Artistic Painterly
To do things a little different we wanted to get some more painted backgrounds, and then fake tile them up to create a procedural approach. The major benefit to this approach is the unique aesthetic, which you don't get from typical hexes or tiles. The downside... much harder to be procedural and it's also difficult to get the proper level of quality.
Sliced Maps
Sliced Maps are an approach that we haven't really seen many other games do, but we wanted to experiment with it. Essentially it means taking a cartography map and slicing it up into pieces, then creating "alternate pieces" for each and randomizing them at creation. You end up with a less random map than procedural with less granular control but you do have a very unique looking cartography style map.
I'll
Personally I'm a big fan of the hexes. With a few fancy transition overlays you can do a lot to mask the underlying structure and make attractive maps. Assuming PoIs are located inside a hex as well, it'll be easier to calculate distance between PoIs using hexes. Diagonal movement on square tiles leads to all kinds of weird shenanigans.
Another option might be (and I'm sure you already discussed and discarded this) a variation of this beta forum suggestion:
Having good, tiling terrain textures with an alpha map could let you "paint" terrain the same way many 3D games (EG: Skyrim) does, where you use the opacity of textures to blend them together. I can't say if it's going to produce bettewr results when doen procedurally. As I said, my personal favourite is a hex-based approach.
While their style is more cartoony and animu than what TWS is shooting for, you might be able to glean some inspiration from the Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org) forums. They've spent the last decade or so tweaking and optimizing hexagon tiles for a fantasy setting.
Another option might be (and I'm sure you already discussed and discarded this) a variation of this beta forum suggestion:
Wow nice selection!I'm actually really digging the last one (2nd under Artistic Painterly); definitely looks painterly/immersive and would create a unique backdrop while still letting PoIs "pop" and stand out.
If slicing/faketiling doesn't end up looking good I'd agree the hexes seem more natural than grids; with an overall goal of blending/de-emphasizing boundaries between hexes (since this is a PoI-based rather than hex-based game I'd suppose these are essentially pieces stiched together to serve as backdrop for PoIs). Out of the hex samples, the 3rd, 4th, and last seem most promising.
BTW take a look at Spiralgraphics free seamlessly-wrapping terrain texture packs (hit Preview for examples of what can be done with seamless textures):
http://www.spiralgraphics.biz/packs/ter ... /index.htm
If modders can include their own 2d graphic terrain texture files and TWS terrain system can apply basic blending to borders, stuff like this could lead to amazing versatility for modding.
Having good, tiling terrain textures with an alpha map could let you "paint" terrain the same way many 3D games (EG: Skyrim) does, where you use the opacity of textures to blend them together. I can't say if it's going to produce bettewr results when doen procedurally. As I said, my personal favourite is a hex-based approach.
While their style is more cartoony and animu than what TWS is shooting for, you might be able to glean some inspiration from the Battle for Wesnoth (http://www.wesnoth.org) forums. They've spent the last decade or so tweaking and optimizing hexagon tiles for a fantasy setting.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.