How conservative are you? What new shit do you want?

[Emotional Vampire]

Trokia should have devloped a party based D&D-style LARP simulator for the Xbox/PS 2.

Go die in a fire.

Jump from twenty-story building and into a fire.

Hi, Annie.

Black Cat is Grifthin.

 

[JarlFrank]

Hi, Annie.

Black Cat is Grifthin.

No, she's just some girl who thinks that speaking like that is cool or cute or something. Made an IP-check and it's not an alt.

 

[Luzur]

Hi, Annie.

WIZARDS CROWN REMAKE, ARE YOU CODING IT?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Annie may not be Black Cat, but she certainly could be and that's all I need.

 

[Squeek]

Annie may not be Black Cat, but she certainly could be and that's all I need.

Just don't start saying that to your right hand (though on second thought there wouldn't be anything really wrong with that).

 

[Black Cat]

@ JarlFrank

JarlFrank: The Game!

 

[Zomg]

People who aren't malfunctioning will never bother to post in more than one or two threads with a persona alt, because they don't want to be fucking Sisyphus pushing a mediocre joke up a hill for eternity.

 

[JarlFrank]

@ JarlFrank

JarlFrank: The Game!

What?
I'm a mod which means I can do IP-checks, people assume you're an alt, I prove you're not.
That's not stalking.

The stuff Wyrmlord does is, though

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Tower of Doom and Shadow over Mystara had a table top feel.

.

No, it didn't. It was an arcade beat em up.

It's not that LARP simulators can't be good cRPGs. They can. It's just that I don't like them.
I prefered tabletop-style games since the times of Laser Squad.
I played Strife, Ultima Underworld II and demos of several other games of this type, I didn't really like any of them. I even disliked the LARP parts of Albion, despite that it had a tabletop style combat.

Anyway, there's nothing inherently progressive about making a LARP simulator these days.

Double Dragon is a typical beat em up. Those arcade games had D&D stats, monsters stripped from the monster manual, as many combat spells as the first couple Gold Box games, independent inventories, gold, buyable items, multiple weapons, multiplayer, multiple paths, cheesy sit down raps between quest and it was a quarter muncher so it really paid to use some base tactics. Its not unreasonable to harken back to a table top experiance when playing it. Also isnt a lot of LARPing just a reenactment of legendary Table Top brawls?

Those arcade games had more in common with the Table Top experience than JE had with LARPing. MMORPGs are the LARP sims of the RPG genres especially without perm death.

It wasn't JE's combat that was progressive. What was progressive was the combat in conjunction with a henchman and a party pool. There were other factors that I mentioned. JE, like many other mainstream RPGs weren't progressive in actuality they were progressive concepts that rarely delivered. Thats what seperated them from a game like ToEE. I'm a D&D freak and ToEE never screamed buy me. I did buy it over D&D Heroes... I hate Atari.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Trokia should have devloped a party based D&D-style LARP simulator for the Xbox/PS 2.

Go die in a fire.

Jump from twenty-story building and into a fire.

Good Lord and his sonny Christ Tito I bet that even with a time machine yuda steered Troika down the same path.

This proves my point. It was multiplatform genre benders that won the mainstream. ToEE was a Gygax mod that would have been better off as a 3D theatric horror piece.

We havent seen a D&D RPG on a console since Pool of fucking Radiance on the NES. Console gamers have been beating their meat for that shit. At least a quarter of them think the Elder Scrolls is D&D. Then you add sandbox, action, and multiplayer. Fuck Oblivion that woulda been huge especially with Bloodlines's presentation.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Double Dragon is a typical beat em up. Those arcade games had D&D stats, monsters stripped from the monster manual, as many combat spells as the first couple Gold Box games, independent inventories, gold, buyable items, multiple weapons, multiplayer, multiple paths, cheesy sit down raps between quest and it was a quarter muncher so it really paid to use some base tactics. Its not unreasonable to harken back to a table top experiance when playing it.

With PnP, yes. But PnP != Tabletop. It's tabletop like in "tabletop wargaming", not tabletop like "I opened the Monster Manual and put it on the table".
Chess on computer is tabletop, Monopoly on computer is tabletop, Laser Squad is tabletop, ToEE is tabletop, but Shadow over Mystara isn't - it's an arcade beat em up with PnP AD&D elements.

 

[denizsi]

I should sit down and finally play JE, just so I know what it's like. Are there any mods for it?

 

[Black Cat]

@ JarlFrank

I was just, like, being silly and fooling around, don't worry. My jokes ARE suposed to be kind of bad, it even says so in the signature, nya.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

With PnP, yes. But PnP != Tabletop. It's tabletop like in "tabletop wargaming", not tabletop like "I opened the Monster Manual and put it on the table".
Chess on computer is tabletop, Monopoly on computer is tabletop, Laser Squad is tabletop, ToEE is tabletop, but Shadow over Mystara isn't - it's an arcade beat em up with PnP AD&D elements.

You lost me. Whats the difference? ToEE was a mod. I consider all mods to be pen and paper. ToEE kinda seperates itself from Monpoly in that its still an RPG.



This convo remindes me of Vin D's take..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQUEQOyIvfk

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

With PnP, yes. But PnP != Tabletop. It's tabletop like in "tabletop wargaming", not tabletop like "I opened the Monster Manual and put it on the table".
Chess on computer is tabletop, Monopoly on computer is tabletop, Laser Squad is tabletop, ToEE is tabletop, but Shadow over Mystara isn't - it's an arcade beat em up with PnP AD&D elements.

You lost me. Whats the difference? ToEE was a mod. I consider all mods to be pen and paper. ToEE kinda seperates itself from Monpoly in that its still an RPG.

The maps are gaming boards (or tabletop) with terrain and characters/critters are miniatures. The form is essentially the same, but on computer. Perspective is similar. You're looking from above on a "table with miniatures". Except that the table can be ginormous and populated with lots of miniatures and miniatures move.

In the same way in LARPs you're "inside" the world and you "are" the character.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Hi, Annie.

Black Cat is Grifthin.

No, she's just some girl who thinks that speaking like that is cool or cute or something. Made an IP-check and it's not an alt.

Well, I was half-kidding and half-taking a jab at Grifthin. Thanks for ruining it.

It was multiplatform genre benders that won the mainstream.

Just... shut up.

 

[Imbecile]

I like some of the the new shit. In the future a dnd 4e turn based RPG bould be nice. A thief RPG set only in a single city. A decent sparring game that properly makes use of the motion controls. More co-op games.

 

[JarlFrank]

It was multiplatform genre benders that won the mainstream.

Just... shut up.

Genre benders sounds like gender benders which is proof that this guy is gay.

Not that I have anything against games that combine genres or competely defy them, but "multiplatform" usually means "dumbed down for a broader audience" and anyone who thinks that's a good thing is a raging faggot.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

The maps are gaming boards (or tabletop) with terrain and characters/critters are miniatures. The form is essentially the same, but on computer. Perspective is similar. You're looking from above on a "table with miniatures". Except that the table can be ginormous and populated with lots of miniatures and miniatures move.

In the same way in LARPs you're "inside" the world and you "are" the character.

So you are saying that ToEE became Chainmail when it went CRPG.

I always assumed that ToEE the CRPG suffered because the mod required a DM to put the dungeon in context otherwise its just rooms with people, humanoids, and monsters that probably should be fighting each other or managing a tenuous cohabitation. Without some strong sim like AI ToEE probably would have been better off as a survival horror piece.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Genre benders sounds like gender benders which is proof that this guy is gay.

But I just conceived a hook for a song that goes.

I’m not gay I fucked a girl just yesterday I’m not gay no way no way I’m not gay.

Not that I have anything against games that combine genres or competely defy them, but "multiplatform" usually means "dumbed down for a broader audience" and anyone who thinks that's a good thing is a raging faggot.

Troika needed larger audiences. So did Ipply and so does Atari. Microsoft was the type of publisher that would have backed a multiplayer Action D&D RPG. I been on MS focus groups. MS does not dumb down their games for a larger audience. They let Rare release games that are marketed to kids which require as much critical thinking as anything I have seen from Trokia cept Arcanum which I'm just getting into.

If you ask me the most degenerate games are console exclusives like BGDA. Its stuff that the industry figures no PC gamer would play and PC exclusives for the casual crowed which are a lot like the games you can now dload on consoles. I dont buy that multiplatform theory unless we are talking technical stuff like Invisible War's area sizes.

 

[JarlFrank]

Troika needed larger audiences. So did Ipply and so does Atari. Microsoft was the type of publisher that would have backed a multiplayer Action D&D RPG. I been on MS focus groups. MS does not dumb down their games for a larger audience. They let Rare release games that are marketed to kids which require as much critical thinking as anything I have seen from Trokia cept Arcanum which I'm just getting into.

If you ask me the most degenerate games are console exclusives like BGDA. Its stuff that the industry figures no PC gamer would play and PC exclusives for the casual crowed which are a lot like the games you can now dload on consoles. I dont buy that multiplatform theory unless we are talking technical stuff like Invisible War's area sizes.

Yes, technological limitations are one reason why consoles suck. Another reason is shitty controllers that would make playing isometric RPGs or, say, strategy games like Warcraft 3 or 4X games with a shitton of menus a royal pain in the ass. Heck, playing shooters with a console controller is bad enough compared to a mouse and keyboard. The controllers are the number one reason why strategy/isometric RPGs rarely get ported to consoles. Multiplatform titles therefore often have consolized interfaces that might be more comfortable to use for console players, but suck on PC. See Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Also, multiplayer action D&D RPG? Seriously? You would've wanted Troika to make some kind of multiplatform MMO instead of a tactical turnbased RPG? Troika found their niche and sticked to it instead of going for the mass market. They didn't lack an audience, their games just lacked polish and advertisement. If they hadn't been that buggy and relatively obscure, they would've sold a lot more. The publishers were partly at fault, but also Troika's project management kinda sucked. Making some multiplayer action RPG that's also multiplatform would've alienated their PC gaming fanbase.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Yes, technological limitations are one reason why consoles suck. Another reason is shitty controllers that would make playing isometric RPGs or, say, strategy games like Warcraft 3 or 4X games with a shitton of menus a royal pain in the ass. Heck, playing shooters with a console controller is bad enough compared to a mouse and keyboard. The controllers are the number one reason why strategy/isometric RPGs rarely get ported to consoles. Multiplatform titles therefore often have consolized interfaces that might be more comfortable to use for console players, but suck on PC. See Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Also, multiplayer action D&D RPG? Seriously? You would've wanted Troika to make some kind of multiplatform MMO instead of a tactical turnbased RPG? Troika found their niche and sticked to it instead of going for the mass market. They didn't lack an audience, their games just lacked polish and advertisement. If they hadn't been that buggy and relatively obscure, they would've sold a lot more. The publishers were partly at fault, but also Troika's project management kinda sucked. Making some multiplayer action RPG that's also multiplatform would've alienated their PC gaming fanbase.

Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game. I'm not suggesting an MMO. I'm suggesting 4 player co-op with 2-4 joinable slots for the CPU. That would give you a 4-8 player party. Maybe Ninja Gaiden style combat without the long combo strings unless you have a sick high level monk. Make it a short 25 hour game some C&C inbetween quest. Lots of solo stuff in the city and towns so the devs could focus on combat with humanoids.

Port it to the PC a few months later with polish, updates, improved graphics, and who would feel alienated? Beats the alternative. Western devs alinated more than half the market by letting the Japanese produce the only RPGs for the better part of two decades. That was a more damaging sin against the industry.

And yes its a more marketable concept than ToEE. I mentioned why ToEE was a lousy choice for a tactical CRPG but there were other reasons.ToEE should have been multiplatform. With the pie menues it was kinda consoleish anyway. Speaking of interfaces ToEE's clunky on the PC. Oblivion and FO 3 had a better interface than ToEE NWN, and Arcanum.

Any D&D RPG should be multiplatform. There hasn't been a console D&D RPG since the NES. I worked at Nintendo too. I did a building poll where I asked that question about the most recent D&D RPG. I framed it by eliminating BGDA because its a boring actionless adventureless game and KOTOR because its Star Wars. Oblivion won the poll big. Pool of Radiance had one vote out of more than 60 people.

 

[MetalCraze]

Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game

Troika did an action game. But it was first-/third-person.

ToEE should have been multiplatform. With the pie menues it was kinda consoleish anyway. Speaking of interfaces ToEE's clunky on the PC. Oblivion and FO 3 had a better interface than ToEE NWN, and Arcanum.

You don't know shit about what you are talking about, do you?

 

[Good Ol' Drog]

ToEE should have been multiplatform. With the pie menues it was kinda consoleish anyway. Speaking of interfaces ToEE's clunky on the PC. Oblivion and FO 3 had a better interface than ToEE NWN, and Arcanum.

Heh, wow. You're a genuine idiot.

 

[Twinkle]

Kaanyrvhok, bro, please tell me: are you really insane or just trying too hard?