Translations of wapanese games

[Krraloth]

B sounds like you're hyperbolizing a bit.
Then I think for a bit.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

^
LOL, modders. Even more retarded than developers.

Its kind off shitty that there are so many translations where shit gets turned around because of

A: A translators belief (political or religious or whatever)

B: A translators interpretation of the story. Its kind of scary how many times you hear (Yeah, translated/localized this would be different BUT I DON'T THINK IT FITS THE STORY SO I'M CHANGING IT)

Could you (or anyone) name a case of a game they would call a "good translation" that fulfills your criteria? By that I mean, staying strictly faithful to the original writing (your criteria) while also being a pleasant read (at least on a "fantasy fiction" level)? Not arguing, just curious.

 

[Duraframe300]

^
LOL, modders. Even more retarded than developers.

Its kind off shitty that there are so many translations where shit gets turned around because of

A: A translators belief (political or religious or whatever)

B: A translators interpretation of the story. Its kind of scary how many times you hear (Yeah, translated/localized this would be different BUT I DON'T THINK IT FITS THE STORY SO I'M CHANGING IT)

Could you (or anyone) name a case of a game they would call a "good translation" that fulfills your criteria? By that I mean, staying strictly faithful to the original writing (your criteria) while also being a pleasant read (at least on a "fantasy fiction" level)? Not arguing, just curious.

That's not my criteria at all?

Yeah, translated/localized this would be different

Of course you can't just translate something 1:1. Much less so when you are translating from and to languages that belong to a different family.
I'm specifically talking about cases here where something is changed from its original meaning for no good reason other than the translator thinking he knows the story/charachters better than the original writer.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

^
LOL, modders. Even more retarded than developers.

Its kind off shitty that there are so many translations where shit gets turned around because of

A: A translators belief (political or religious or whatever)

B: A translators interpretation of the story. Its kind of scary how many times you hear (Yeah, translated/localized this would be different BUT I DON'T THINK IT FITS THE STORY SO I'M CHANGING IT)

Could you (or anyone) name a case of a game they would call a "good translation" that fulfills your criteria? By that I mean, staying strictly faithful to the original writing (your criteria) while also being a pleasant read (at least on a "fantasy fiction" level)? Not arguing, just curious.

That's not my criteria at all?

Yeah, translated/localized this would be different

Of course you can't just translate something 1:1. Much less so when you are translating from and to languages that belong to a different family. I'm specifically talking about cases here where something is changed from its original meaning for no good reason other than the translator thinking he knows the story/charachters better than the original writer.

Could you give some examples of good translations by this criterion, then? (I'm just looking for a few, out of personal interest).

 

[Duraframe300]

^
LOL, modders. Even more retarded than developers.

Its kind off shitty that there are so many translations where shit gets turned around because of

A: A translators belief (political or religious or whatever)

B: A translators interpretation of the story. Its kind of scary how many times you hear (Yeah, translated/localized this would be different BUT I DON'T THINK IT FITS THE STORY SO I'M CHANGING IT)

Could you (or anyone) name a case of a game they would call a "good translation" that fulfills your criteria? By that I mean, staying strictly faithful to the original writing (your criteria) while also being a pleasant read (at least on a "fantasy fiction" level)? Not arguing, just curious.

That's not my criteria at all?

Yeah, translated/localized this would be different

Of course you can't just translate something 1:1. Much less so when you are translating from and to languages that belong to a different family. I'm specifically talking about cases here where something is changed from its original meaning for no good reason other than the translator thinking he knows the story/charachters better than the original writer.

So what would be some examples of good translations by this criterion, then?

Again, I don't think its a good sign if a translator deliberatly changes the meaning or tone of certain charachters NOT because it wouldn't work in english or generally would make for a better localization, but simply because the translator thinks it should be this way and the original designers/writers are wrong.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not making a general statement for 1:1 translations at all (And my favourite translations, like FFIX's german one are heavily localized as well).

Edit: Ah, saw your edit. Wouldn't know. One translation I enjoyed was the re-translation of BOFII. No idea how accurate it really is though.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

There's also this popular opinion that written Japanese is far easier/more flexible to express emotion with in a short space of text, which I suppose is the reason why a lot of translated JRPG dialogue just feels "dry" or unnatural, if you know what I mean. There's just TONS of modality (semantic stuff that's there purely for "emotional" nuance reasons) in Japanese grammar. Stumbled across some stuff if anyone is interested / has JSTOR access.

 

[yes plz]

Chrono Trigger would probably be the best game to study if you're looking to compare translations. It has the original Ted Woolsey one which was a somewhat loose translation due to space constraints, a rushed schedule, censorship, and his own personal touches to the script, a fan translation that is as literal as possible (going so far as to call Magus 'Maou-Sama'), and finally the DS version's translation which was more faithful to the original Japanese script but still far from a literal translation and is, overall, I think the best localization of the game.

 

[yes plz]

The Chrono Compendium also has a really in depth look at the original translation vs the original script and the more literal fan translation.

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

The Chrono Compendium also has a really in depth look at the original translation vs the original script and the more literal fan translation.

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Translation_Differences.html

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Retranslation.html

Interesting, ty for the links. You can see how the right (literal) translations flows much worse than the original or the "adapted version", though the adapted version seems to be just half-made-up. You might as well be imagining what the characters say instead of reading the text.

 

[laclongquan]

Speaking as a guy reading too much text translated from jap lately, Japanese text is peculiar in its own right. Translate the right way might burn the brain of players.

Most of the english versions has been localized, or to be more precisely, sterile-edit for the pleasure of dweeb gamers. Original jap text is not easy to swallow.

To illustrate the difference of english and japanese, you can try google translate a few jap novel text. the so called translations will scramble your brain.

 

[Athelas]

Is this the reason why the dialogue of so many localized Japanese games have one person stating something and the other needlessly repeating it in the form of a question? I believe I read somewhere that this is conversational structure unique to the Japanese language that doesn't quite flow as well when translated literally.

 

[Red Eye]

Overly literal translations are pretty bad.

A translator should take into account what is happening, the context and how the people speak etc and then try and replicate that in English (or whatever language they are translating it into).

 

[laclongquan]

The structure is honestly unique. I dont know about Korean, but I know Chinese and it doesnt translate as badly as Japanese. It can come all over the place, a sentence ramble on to a full paragraph, with phrases thrown left and right, with SFX slapped on just for shits and giggles.

Sure, it could be that the materials I read is mostly in manuscript form (web novel), but even hardcopy novels are not that different. I suspect it come from having three different alphabets, and THAT allow them a lot of subtle meanings aside from the usual literary tricks.

A "clean" reading of translated japanese text is usually cleared off all those oddities. So it read really sterily, with not those japanese characteristics.

Think of translating Shakespearan plays into modern language, cleared of all those archaic phrases and terms and you can understand the difficulties of TL Jap to English.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Is this the reason why the dialogue of so many localized Japanese games have one person stating something and the other needlessly repeating it in the form of a question? I believe I read somewhere that this is conversational structure unique to the Japanese language that doesn't quite flow as well when translated literally.

You can skip those but then again it would lose some nuance (quoting what the other party just said can serve semantic purpose from politiness, to ascertaining, to disgust, to showing awe etc. etc. depending on added modality). You may keep them, and then again it would annoy people (because it sounds dumb in English).

Btw, there is a conversational strategy called aizuchi but i've only seen it mostly refer to short stuff like "Yeah?", "Isn't that so?" Etc. I'm not sure what the re-quoting part is referred to as (it has to have a name, right).

 

[Red Eye]

The structure is honestly unique. I dont know about Korean, but I know Chinese and it doesnt translate as badly as Japanese. It can come all over the place, a sentence ramble on to a full paragraph, with phrases thrown left and right, with SFX slapped on just for shits and giggles.

Sure, it could be that the materials I read is mostly in manuscript form (web novel), but even hardcopy novels are not that different. I suspect it come from having three different alphabets, and THAT allow them a lot of subtle meanings aside from the usual literary tricks.

A "clean" reading of translated japanese text is usually cleared off all those oddities. So it read really sterily, with not those japanese characteristics.

Think of translating Shakespearan plays into modern language, cleared of all those archaic phrases and terms and you can understand the difficulties of TL Jap to English.

Translated web novels are a great example of why literal translations are shit.

They just don't read like anything someone who is fluent in English would ever write.

If you're just translating a JRPG you can probably get away with it though.

 

[laclongquan]

You are missing the point.

Any TL that read like a fluently English speaker would write read NOTHING like a japanese text. The soul is all gone: SFX, dirty puns, etc... You might as well ask an Englishman rewrite it.

It's like NWN2. You must accept upfront that the camera is fucked. And get over it. Then you can enjoy NWN2.
Same deal with Japanese web novel. You must accept upfront that there's a lot of Japanese characteristics in SFX sounds they like to use, in the groaning puns only the dirtiest punster would touch. And get beyond those. Once you get beyond those the scene is terrific.

 

[Haba]

"web novels" aka light novel trash are trash by design. They are children's books. You're reading a poorly translated children's book, no wonder it feels alien.

Fuck the "soul". Japanese can be translated just like any other language. Read some real books for a change. As an example, switching between polite speech and being unpolite/awkward is hard to translate. But let's take this quote from Huckleberry Finn: "Yo' ole father doan' know yit what he's a-gwyne to do." Translate that to another language.

Or the good old Finnish:

1. Kuusi palaa = The spruce is on fire.
Kuusi" is a common tree in Finland known in English as a "spruce". "Palaa" means "to burn/be on fire". In this sentence it's in the "hän/se" form which happens to be the same as the basic form in this case.

2. Kuusi palaa = The spruce is returning.
"Palata" is a Finnish verb meaning "to return/come back". It's verb-type 4 so we remove the letter "t" and the "hän/se" form becomes "palaa".

3. Kuusi palaa = The number six is on fire.
"Kuusi" also means "the number 6"... which means you can also make the sentence...

4. Kuusi palaa = The number six is returning.
It sounds silly but remember, you could be referring to a sports player who wears the number 6 who has been injured for some time and is now returning. All of these sentences can be used in context.

5. Kuusi palaa = Six of them are on fire.
Kuusi doesn't always mean "the number 6". If there is a street containing 10 houses and six of them are on fire, you might say "kuusi palaa".

6. Kuusi palaa = Six of them are returning.
Ten of them walked into the forest. Six will return. "Kymmenen käveli metsään. Kuusi palaa"

7. Kuusi palaa = Your moon is on fire.
Kuu = moon. si = suffix that replaces the word "sinun". Kuusi = Sinun kuu = Your moon. I can't think when you'd use this, maybe in a sappy poem.

8. Kuusi palaa = You're moon is returning.
Even more ridiculous but a completely valid sentence.

9. Kuusi palaa = Six pieces.
Well, this is the only one that's not a complete sentence but it still is a translation of "kuusi palaa". "Pala" means "piece" or "part" and because "kuusi" is a number, it becomes partitive so we add an "a".

Translator needs a good editor and sometimes the edit becomes a thing of it's own, as certain things cannot be conveyed. Like when you translate a foreign dialect to a dialect in your own language.

Look at Lovecraft's "The Picture in the House":

“Killin’ sheep was kinder more fun—but d’ye know, ’twan’t quitesatisfyin’.Queer haow acravin’gits a holt on ye— As ye love the Almighty, young man, don’t tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make mehungry fer victuals I couldn’t raise nor buy—here, set still, what’s ailin’ ye?—I didn’t do nothin’, only I wondered haow ’twud be ef Idid— They say meat makes blood an’ flesh, an’ gives ye new life, so I wondered ef ’twudn’t make a man live longer an’ longer ef ’twasmore the same—”

That dialect doesn't even exist (any more, if it ever did)! Yet it has been translated into many foreign languages... Including Japanese.

 

[spekkio]

Clock Tower - PS1 remake (aka First Fear) got an english patch. Original Snes version got translated years ago by Aeon Genesis.
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2337/

ghostdog

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

What's the difference between SNES and PS1 version? It looks more lazy than PS1 remake of SMT1.

 

[spekkio]

^
http://clocktowerff.50megs.com/psx.html

 

[A user named cat]

It appears to be about the exact same as the Super Famicom version except of course it has CD audio, so the sound effects are better and more clear. The translator also used a smaller font but everything looks about the same. Only visible differences being PS1's superior dithering and wider view. Translation itself is only slightly different. Basically a waste of time, a ton of other games that could use a translation. Here, I took a couple comparison shots.

PS1 version

Super Famicom version

 

[ghostdog]

I like the snes version better. The PSX is just more blurry. Also notice that the only thing that changes is the aspect ratio in PSX which basically stretches the original 5:4 from snes, or whatever that shit is (refer to felipepepe for details about crt/lcd/tv/dos/emulation ratio crap), to PSX 4:3. Pretty pointless translation indeed.

 

[yes plz]

Is there a guy yanking it in the corner of the SNES screenshot?

 

[ghostdog]

Is there a guy yanking it in the corner of the SNES screenshot?

that was mys first thought as well. Then I remembered that one of the girls is red headed with short hair.

Spoiler

 

[A user named cat]

I like the snes version better. The PSX is just more blurry. Also notice that the only thing that changes is the aspect ratio in PSX which basically stretches the original 5:4 from snes, or whatever that shit is (refer to felipepepe for details about crt/lcd/tv/dos/emulation ratio crap), to PSX 4:3. Pretty pointless translation indeed.

SNES has an internal ratio of 8:7 but most people actually play it at 4:3 since that's how it was stretched on our TV's. I'll take the correct aspect any day though, where circles look like circles and not ovals.