Sol Invictus
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 9618
Location: Pax Romana
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 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And yet, according to Warren and Greg, we and others like us apparently don’t exist at worst or are aberrations at best. That’s nonsense and I’m calling them on it. |
In the world of game development, Mark's development company is relatively meaningless, along with all 200 of his subscribers. I'd like to know how many kids and their parents, teenagers or adults would take one of his text-based games over a title like Spore, Dragon Age, Quake 4, or Grand Theft Auto 4. I doubt that even a tenth of that number would pick one of his text-based games over Geneforge. At least Jeff doesn't speak out of turn and understands market realities better than this schmuck who claims that nil-production cost game development is a viable alternative to the mass market. It's like he's saying that Terry Pratchett or Neil Gaiman would be successful as a pay-to-read blog publishers if they opted out of publishing actual books. It sounds like somebody needs a wake up call.
| Quote: | | And guess what? You’re free to make games that operate by word of mouth. Our single biggest source of customers, with a 200% advantage over the 2nd biggest source, is word of mouth. I am positive we are not unique. Are you going to make a game that sells 2 million copies this way? Probably not. But then, it’s not going to cost anything like a game that sells 2 million copies will either. |
Much good "word of mouth" advertising did for Beyond Good & Evil, a triple A title with triple A ratings that completely failed to make a mark in the market due to one simple fact: Ubisoft didn't advertise it. You might ask, "Where's the proof?": Ubisoft didn't advertise the game as part of an experiment to see if good games could sell on word of mouth basis alone. The experiment wasn't a 'failure' per se. On the contrary, the experiment proved that it impossible to make a profit with a triple A title with a few million dollar budget that is only advertised through word of mouth.
It's rather amusing that this idiot tries to compare the small amount of profit he makes through his text-based MMO sales to the amount of profit a triple A, million dollar budget title would make on the open market. Unlike him, I'm quite positive that profits made from word of mouth based advertising are unique to nil-development cost titles like text-based MMOs. What's to lose when you don't spend a single cent on game development? It stands to reason.
| Quote: | | Wal-Mart drives development decisions from people who choose to make games to sell in Wal-Mart. No more, no less. If you want to make games that Wal-Mart will sell, be my guest. Lots of money to be made there, no doubt about it. Of course, many developers will have to censor themselves to even get a game on its shelves. There’s nothing inherently wrong with self-censorship, but let’s not pretend that the only way to support yourself while making games is to work on the AAA titles that Wal-Mart carries. |
Why not? Wal-Mart is easily the single biggest source of revenue when it comes to game sales. If a game fails to sit on the shelves at Wal-mart, the chance of it being a good seller is much, much lower. I do not think that anyone is 'pretending' that the only way to support themselves while making games is to work on AAA titles that Wal-Mart carries. On the contrary, it is reality that forces itself on game development. It might be profitable for some shmuck like Mr. Mark here to work on text-based MMOs, but without big budgets, games like Half Life 2, GTA3, The Sims and yes, even Fallout would have never been made possible. As VD stated in his rebuttal, "Well, anything else costs a lot of money and is IMPOSSIBLE for an independent studio without publisher's paying for development. There is nothing wrong with trying to make a game that doesn't look like ass."
| Quote: | | Sure, we can do a lot worse. The restaurant industry loses 90% of new restaurants according to restaurant industry people I’ve talked to. 80% would be a big improvement. The people starting those restaurants are a LOT like most startup game developers. They think that because they like food, they can run a restaurant. |
That sounds like a bullshit statistic Mark just pulled out of his ass to support his flimsy argument. In my two years of being in the restaurant/hotel management college, not once did I hear of such a ridiculous statistic. The restaurant business is very different from the game development industry based on one simple fact: supply and demand. So long as people have money and they need to eat, restaurants will be around. You can't eat 2 day old food, much less 2 year old food. In game development, on the other hand, gamers can survive on 5 year old titles that haven't gone stale. And now for a real statistic: restaurants make up to 700% in profits when you count everything including the costs of transport, service, overhead (electricity and gas bills), and materials. Game developers, including game publishers, don't make anywhere as much profit. People who operate restaurants can afford to take in losses because millions of dollars in investment don't hang over their heads like a Sword of Damocles. Screw up the menu for a couple of weeks and you might find yourself losing ten thousand dollars. Screw up a game, and you just lost 3 million dollars and any chance of finding future contract work with publishers.
| Quote: | | I’m guessing not. Are you really concerned about games, or are you just pissed off that you’re not getting a bigger piece of the pie? |
Reality: games cost money to make. What's the point of directing an ad hominem argument at Warren Spector?
| Quote: | | Besides, we don’t lack alternative distribution systems. Downloadable or web games are clearly viable. They may not be viable for all kinds of games (obviously) but so what? A game based around cooking the perfect risotto isn’t viable either. Should we be bitching about that? |
As Saint Proverbius pointed out to me earlier in a different thread: not too many people, even those on broadband, are willing to download 3 gigabytes of content when they can easily walk down to their closest EB Games or Wal-mart and grab a copy off the shelves for the same price.
I'll continue later. |
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