Spazmo
Fights like a dairy farmer
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 5754
Location: Monkey Island
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 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:02 pm Post subject: Shades of ToEE! Unofficial Bloodlines patch from Dilapidatio |
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Bloodlines Dilapidation--now known as Planet Vampire--are hosting an unofficial patch for Troika's Vampire: Bloodlines, which you can grab from their patch page. Here's some fixlist.if you try to use the locked computer in warrens4 without the keycard, the keycard is highlighted if your inspection feat was too low to highlight it automatically*
cleaned up brother kanker's dialogue - shouldn't get stuck in a loop anymore*
zygaena shouldn't be in the red dragon after you've killed him anymore*
shouldn't teleport to kingsway mansion after watching snuff film with isaac*
shouldn't be able to get stuck with vandal's dialogue so he thinks you're on the replacing lily quest when you're not
if you've already read about rolf toten on the krimeputer when you find the bail bond, you don't need to read about him again*
if you've already read about virgil crumb on the krimeputer when you get the driver's license, you don't need to read about him again*
should no longer get a masquerade violation for convincing the serial killer not to kill again*
should now get xp for completing the replacing lily quest*
relinked the xp award for finding lily's items to the experience table*
fixed a logic error in beckett's dialogue that resulted in "no valid responses" when talking about disciplines* ...among many other fixes listed in the readme. Go download!
EDIT: Another important selection from the readme: "...no guarantees are made, since i haven't had time to test it yet - consider this an alpha release. backup your files first and use at your own risk"
Thanks to Mr. Teatime who saw this at Terra Arcanum. |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | should no longer get a masquerade violation for convincing the serial killer not to kill again* |
That one always pissed me off. I mean, I felt for the guy and had no qualms with what he had done. Also, there were no witnesses to what he had done with the exception of the bum in the abandoned building, but you can convince him it wasn't what it looked like. Therefore, while he was skating close to breaking the masquerade, he never did. At least not bad enough to cause the Camarilla to perk their ears. Fuck, you don't even mess with any of the NPC vamps in dealing with that quest. When I got that violation point for letting him go, I was like "What the fuck?!".
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
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Volourn
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Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 13937
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. You *should* get a masquarade violation for letting him live. Geez.. It's all over the news about some 'wild beast' murdering people. In fact, the police will probably (if they were actually smart) eventually track down who has motives for murdeirng the victims. btw, I took the masquarade violation as it was in chararacter's nature to do so; but I agree with the reasoning behind them.
Instead of changing things that might rely on individual perception; perhaps these unofficial patches should actually deal with bugs. ie. Said bumb's bug. R00fles!
Not that I will download this patch. Unofficial patches are an absolute no no for me. |
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Whipporowill
Nude Kid On the Block
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 2955
Location: 59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I hate to say it - but Volourn's right.
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Retired RPG Codex Newshound
Eye On Troika - R.I.P
The Eyesore & other old crap
The Super Bowl, which I guess is happening today, is sort of like the Oscars for people who are still impressed by fire.
- Devin Faraci, CHUD |
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Kamaz
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 587
Location: The Glorious Ancient City of Loja
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I might apply this patch, but I will wait til the official one comes out to see what it covers and to learn about compatibility issues between them both.
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If you don't care for what I have to say, I'll just shut up and let the mainstream speak. |
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zenslinger
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Whipporowill wrote: | | Well, I hate to say it - but Volourn's right. |
Holy shit, it's true. Soon we'll all be saying "***fles". "***fles" out the ass. |
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Major_Blackhart
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 5224
Location: Jersey for now
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Visceris
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like Bloodlines is following the same path of ToEE. Man, I am glad I didn't waste my money on that game. |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Volourn wrote: | | I disagree. You *should* get a masquarade violation for letting him live. |
No. You shouldn't.
Why?
Because the Camarilla obviously doesn't give a fuck about it since they don't even once bring it up. Also, the killer is the one in violation of the masquerade, not you. If you let him go, it's on his ass, not yours. If he continues killing, then sure, that's a bad on you, or not. Depends on what kind of character you're playing and what their thoughts on the matter are. But then that's not even a violation. Just something that might bother your character and possibly open up the quest even further where you DO decide to kill him and go on the hunt once again.
Answer me this: If you let him go, how is it a violation on your part? Is there like some omniscient hunter somewhere going "Oh. They let the killer go. They MUST be a vampire!"?
Sure, he exposed himself to the mortal world. That's on HIM. Not you. Plain and simple. Now, if the Camarilla cared about it and had sent you after the guy, then that would be a different story. But even then, if you let him go, it still would not be a violation of the masqeurade that exposes yourself to the world. Instead, it would be an internal matter to be handled by the Camarilla themselves.
[Edit: Meant to add this. Instead of the violation point, what you should have gotten was the flaw Dark Secret. If the guy got caught and it was learned by the Primogen that you let this guy go, say goodbye to yourself because they'll kill you (i.e. - the internal matter I spoke of above. This is not a violation of the Masquerade per the mechanics of the game. Not in the least.]
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
Last edited by Otaku_Hanzo on Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sol Invictus
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 9618
Location: Pax Romana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Otaku_Hanzo wrote: | | Quote: | | should no longer get a masquerade violation for convincing the serial killer not to kill again* |
That one always pissed me off. I mean, I felt for the guy and had no qualms with what he had done. Also, there were no witnesses to what he had done with the exception of the bum in the abandoned building, but you can convince him it wasn't what it looked like. Therefore, while he was skating close to breaking the masquerade, he never did. At least not bad enough to cause the Camarilla to perk their ears. Fuck, you don't even mess with any of the NPC vamps in dealing with that quest. When I got that violation point for letting him go, I was like "What the fuck?!". |
Volourn is absolutely right.
I don't agree with you. I felt it was an appropriate 'reward' for letting him go. Even the description reads: "I hope you feel better about yourself, shmuck." or something like that. The guy was all over the news, and his actions would mean the ruin of the Masquerade if someone didn't eventually put a stop to him. Even if he didn't disclose his true nature in the past, he'd get wreckless (which he already is) and be discovered sooner or later. He even said that he didn't give a damn about the masquerade laws, that he didn't feel they applied to him. Any vampire who speaks that way would deserve to die. Hell, if you read the dialogue with him you'd have options to say things like, "Couldn't you just use a knife?" and "You have to control yourself". If you let him go, despite his promises to continue doing what he does, then your character is dumb, and deserves to be penalized for the masquerade violation.
With all that said, I won't download this patch. It seems like a poor replacement for something Troika should be fixing on their own. |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Read my retort above. The reason they did that in the patch is because anyone who knows the mechanics of how the masquerade system works, knows that you shouldn't have gotten that violation point. I spent nine years of my life with people who were deeply into V:TM and knew it inside and out. It rubbed off on me even though I didn't give a fuck about the game.
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
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Old Scratch
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Exitium and Volourn. Either way, one little masquerade violation is no big deal. You would have to be retarded to wrack up enough to get in trouble in the game anyway.
I don't trust user created patches. But WTF, Troika needs to learn what patches are and start making them. I didn't enconter many bugs, even the boat one, but the fact a lot of people are complaining about them should be enough incentive. I don't care if they have to do it in their free time, it's their reputation on the line.
Developers in general (or maybe it's just the publishers) seem to be a lot stingier when it comes to fixing some of the technical issues in their games lately.
Last edited by Old Scratch on Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Sol Invictus
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 9618
Location: Pax Romana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Otaku_Hanzo wrote: |
No. You shouldn't.
Why?
Because the Camarilla obviously doesn't give a fuck about it since they don't even once bring it up. Also, the killer is the one in violation of the masquerade, not you. If you let him go, it's on his ass, not yours. If he continues killing, then sure, that's a bad on you, or not. Depends on what kind of character you're playing and what their thoughts on the matter are. But then that's not even a violation. Just something that might bother your character and possibly open up the quest even further where you DO decide to kill him and go on the hunt once again.
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You're wrong here. If a member of the Camarilla (e.g. any vampire belonging to any Camarilla clan) discovers something that threatens to disclose the existence of the Kindred to kine society he has to make it his responsibility to be rid of this problem, whether or not he 'cares' about it, because disclosure of the Kindred will equal death to all vampires, including him. It's like when an allied soldier spots an axis soldier anywhere, whether on the battlefield or in a pub in town, he has to make it his business to put the guy out of commission by taking him as a prisoner of war, or he might go on to shoot an allied soldier later on. It's the same situation with the serial killer. You know what he's going to do - and it he's not going to stop so it's your ass that's on the line. Your ass and everybody else's. Not putting a stop to him is a violation of the Masquerade.
Look, it's not like one of those dumb TV shows or especially Batman cartoons, where the good guy lets the bad guy get away for no reason whatsoever, just so he can go on to commit more crimes. What the hell's the point, then?
| Quote: |
Answer me this: If you let him go, how is it a violation on your part? Is there like some omniscient hunter somewhere going "Oh. They let the killer go. They MUST be a vampire!"? |
Simple. He's going to reveal the Masquerade to the entire world by doing what he does, and you had a chance to stop him but you didn't. You violated the Masquerade. |
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Sol Invictus
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 9618
Location: Pax Romana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Old Scratch wrote: | I agree with Exitium and Volourn.
I don't trust user created patches. But WTF, Troika needs to learn what patches are and start making them. I didn't enconter many bugs, even the boat one, but the fact a lot of people are complaining about them should be enough incentive. I don't care if they have to do it in their free time, it's their reputation on the line.
Developers in general (or maybe it's just the publishers) seem to be a lot stingier when it comes to fixing some of the technical issues in their games lately. |
Yeah, if anything patches should be out within the week of release. Most developers work on polishing the game during the period when the game goes gold, until the game's release in order to make it presentable for reviewers.
As it is, even Bloodlines' intro is broken. If anything, I'd say this game was given the 'Troika polish'. |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Exitium wrote: | | Simple. He's going to reveal the Masquerade to the entire world by doing what he does, and you had a chance to stop him but you didn't. You violated the Masquerade. |
To an extent, yes, you did. But ONLY in the eyes of yourself, not everyone else. If the Prince or any other member of the Camarilla found out, then yes, you are fucked. Bye-bye. End of story. If they don't find out, then you have a dark secret hanging over your head. Until the guy gets caught, or it's found out what you did, you DID NOT violate the masquerade per the mechanics of the game, pure and simple.
Have you ever played the V:TM for any length of time? If you had, then you'd know what I was talking about. Now that I look at it, I can understand why they did it in the game. They didn't want to mess with perks and flaws, so they punished you the only way they could. It's still not proper per the rules though. The ONLY time you should have gotten that violation point is if you were given the quest by a member of the Camarilla. You didn't though, and obviously the other vamps didn't even care or it would have come up in conversation with them.
As for the patch, I'm not grabbing it. It doesn't fix ANY of the problems I've had with the game so far.
[Edit: Oh, and by the way, the killer was done. All the responsible parties were dead. He himself was on the verge of going nuts, but I managed to talk him down and convince him it was over and he just needed to find his niche in life and never bring the masquerade to exposure again. If he did in fact go on killing, then I personally would have made it so you could hunt him down again and I have no doubts the Camarilla would have been involved at that point. What they should have done was make it where you had to get to him before they did or you could be exposed. Again, it goes back to the Dark Secret flaw which is part of the rules. Read the game books and you'll see.]
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
Last edited by Otaku_Hanzo on Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Old Scratch
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Hey, maybe there was a Nosferatu hiding under a sewer grate nearby that overheard you or some shit.  |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Old Scratch wrote: | | Hey, maybe there was a Nosferatu hiding under a sewer grate nearby that overheard you or some shit. |
If he was part of the Camarilla, then you would have been dead. Plain and simple. The prince would have called a blood hunt on you if you ran. And this blood hunt would involve Primogen. Otherwise, someone knows your secret and can hold it over you head. Still not a violation of the masquerade per the rules.
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
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Volourn
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Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 13937
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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"then your character is dumb,"
No. You dumb. Perhaps the chaarcetr cares more about seeing scum bags liek thsoe he killed get their justs desert than the masquarade.
"I spent nine years of my life with people who were deeply into V:TM and knew it inside and out. It rubbed off on me even though I didn't give a fuck about the game."
Hahaha! STFU! What a lame response. For multiple reasons includinG:
a) Who gives a fuck about what your friends think. They aren't disucssing this. Youa re. Sit in your chair and type like aman not a pussy who hides behind imaginary friends.
b) BL is not pnp.
c) As i said above; it's a matter of interpretation. It's a judgement call. Not a black, and white issue.
d) By allowing him to go youa re taking a HUGE risk on so MANY levels that others will discover the secrets of the masquarade hence the violation. The violation is not just about revelaing oneself but risking it to an unacceptable level. Geez... This vamp was all over the new plus as I stated above it would be posisble only a matter of time before the police put two and two together. Maybe not; but once again, this risk is there. And, the trial may lead straight to you.
e) Doesn't matter if the Boss sent you or not. Afterall, most of the masquarade violations involved situations not apart of the Camarilla espicially sicne in the game the violations meant hunters after you not Camarilla.
Dumbass.
I say Troika made the right choice here. Period. |
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Txiasaeia
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| I dunno if it was really a violation of the masquerade to let him go, but I definitely think it should have been worth a masquerade redemption for killing him. Like others have said, you don't personally break the masquerade, he does. If he screws the pooch, well, it's not really your fault. If you stop him, on the other hand, you should definitely get rewarded for it. |
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Volourn
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Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 13937
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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"Like others have said, you don't personally break the masquerade, he does. If he screws the pooch, well, it's not really your fault."
If you let him go when you had a chance to stop him; it *is* your fault. |
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Sol Invictus
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 9618
Location: Pax Romana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah. It's usually a cop's ass that's on the line for letting a murderer walk because the murderer talked him out of it. Just like the cop, you're not supposed to be prejudiced about these things. It's plain as day that he's a threat to the masquerade. Killing him is the only way to protect the Masquerade. |
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Diogo Ribeiro
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 5587
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Volourn wrote: | | No. You dumb. |
| Volourn wrote: | | Hahaha! STFU! |
| Volourn wrote: | | Sit in your chair and type like aman not a pussy who hides behind imaginary friends. |
Tell us how you really feel, Vol.
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blargh i am ded |
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Otaku_Hanzo
Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: The state of insanity.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Volourn, why do you have to be like that? I'm putting forth a valid argument without resorting to insults or trolling bullshit. I don't hide behind imaginary friends. My point IS relevant because it's THE GAME RULES. I already stated I can see why Troika went with the violation point. But I also stated why I felt it was wrong in the first place and it was a valid argument. I did not call you a pussy or troll you in anyway. So, guess what? You no longer exist in my eyes. You are just a faggot troll who has to resort to insults when you can't win an argument. Email any official World Of Darkness member about this subject and I am sure they will tell you the violation was unjustified because IT'S GAME RULES.
OMG! I KNOW THE ACTUAL RULES BECAUSE I HAVE REAL FRIENDS WHO PLAYED THE GAME FOR NINE YEARS!! YEAH!! THAT MAKES ME A PUSSY!!!
Fuck off, Volourn. I have no respect at all for you and anything you post from this point forward is absolutely irrelevant to me.
Buh-bye. 
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | | Surpassing the stories of Episode I and II is kind of like entering a Ferrari in a Yugo race. Not a whole lot of challenge there. |
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EEVIAC
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: Bumfuck, Nowhere
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Exitium wrote: | | Yeah. It's usually a cop's ass that's on the line for letting a murderer walk because the murderer talked him out of it. Just like the cop, you're not supposed to be prejudiced about these things. It's plain as day that he's a threat to the masquerade. Killing him is the only way to protect the Masquerade. |
Its not a breach of The Masquerade because you're not breaking the First Tradition by letting him go :
The Masquerade - Thou shalt not reveal thy true nature to those not of The Blood. Doing so shall renounce thy claims of Blood.
You will be breaking the Sixth Tradition by killing him though :
Destruction - Thou art forbidden to destroy another of thy kind. The right of destruction belongeth only to thine elder. Only the eldest among thee shall call the blood hunt.
Vampires are not Masquerade police. |
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Volourn
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Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 13937
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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"Volourn, why do you have to be like that?"
Because.
"I'm putting forth a valid argument"
So am I. Totally irrelavant defense from trolling.
"resorting to insults or trolling bullshit."
Eh. Stop being so fragile. My insults can't hurt you. Geez. Or can they?
"You are just a faggot"
What does being gay have to do with anything?
"You no longer exist in my eyes."
You stalking me? You have never seen me to my knowledge.
"I have no respect at all for you"
If I actually cared about getting respect from someone I don't respect this would hurt. Alas, it doesn't.
"anything you post from this point forward is absolutely irrelevant to me."
I remember when you post this when you first joined the 'Codex. Didn't last long. Or several months later. That lasted a short time as well. Youa re a known liar hence I have no reason to believe you.
Believe me, though, if you don't respond to me, that would be only a good thing. It be one less moron I'd have to worry about crying 'cause I hurt his feelings. |
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