New Action RPG: The Way of the Sword

armagan · May 31, 2004

Hi,

We're an independent team developing a 3D Action-RPG called The Way of The Sword. It's to be released probably in early 2005 but we have build our site and want to spread the word about it. (BTW, I hope it's OK to promote ourselves so shamelessly in this forum. For your information, rpgcodex is the only international place I've posted an announcement. We need to do some poor man's marketing ourselves. I don't think anybody would give a rat's ass if we made a press release or something.) Anyways, our site is at:
http://www.taleworlds.com

The game offers a completely new kind of gameplay. The map screen kind of looks like a RTS, with enemy and ally parties moving around attacking or running from each other and you. Moreover, the action element in the game has some true action. You really have to be focused and exercise good timing and fast reflexes.

We have the gameplay, AI, etc. in place. We are currently working on the story, dialogs and graphical content.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Unlike most of the games in the genre, Way of the sword has a battle system that depends on reflexes and coordination. We believe something is amiss in games where, the player saves the world battling against demonic hordes while in reality he does little more than clicking on enemies.

Unlike most games, yeah, right. I believe that something is amiss when RPG developers have no clue what RPGs are about

Sol Invictus · May 31, 2004

So, VD, you're knocking the game because it offers interactivity?

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Because it uses player's reflexes instead of character's stats and proud of that

Raymondo · May 31, 2004

Sure I admit it's not the most role-playingish game out there, but if you count games like Jagged Alliance and System Shock as RPGs; then why not this?

EEVIAC · May 31, 2004

It looks a little different to most actiony RPG whatevers. I like the idea of no healing potions and making avoiding damage from enemies important (have to admit to not reading the entire feature set, see the following sentence.) But its fantasy, and I could barely be bothered to wipe my arse with fantasy at the best of times.

So good luck, not only with the game but with the inevitable pile-on.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Raymondo2000 said:
Sure I admit it's not the most role-playingish game out there, but if you count games like Jagged Alliance and System Shock as RPGs; then why not this?

Never said anything about it being an RPG or not.

Sol Invictus · May 31, 2004

I think you have a really bad habit of dismissing games, before even any of it is actually presented in a digestible manner. Give the game a chance, as I always say - it might turn out to be something. Or, it might not. Can't hurt to check it out, right?

Whipporowill · May 31, 2004

Aren't we supposed to be indie-friendly here at the Codex?

armagan · May 31, 2004

Vault Dweller said:
Because it uses player's reflexes instead of character's stats and proud of that

Actually the game uses player's reflexes along with character's stats. The amount of damage you deliver or receive depends on your stats and equipment. But whether your attack hits or misses depends solely on the collision detection in the 3d world.

Determining hit/miss through character stats works well in turn based combat but if the game has a 3rd person or 1st person action mode it's kind of pointless. If I clearly hit my opponent in the 3d window, I would like the game to acknowledge this fact and behave accordingly. Instead if it writes MISS on the screen and goes on, that is just annoying and distracting.

Country_Gravy · May 31, 2004

So does this mean that it is NOT turnbased? Are you sure you don't work for Bioware?

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Exitium said:
I think you have a really bad habit of dismissing games, before even any of it is actually presented in a digestible manner.

I was told that I have many bad habits, so what's one more? :lol:

Anyway, appreciate your constructive criticism, Rex, so here is an honest answer:

There are features that are important to me in an RPG. If a game lacks these features, I dismiss it. Simple as that. If you notice I've never said that this game sucks or anything similar. I simply drew people attention to the fact that turned me off, allowing people to form their own opinions. There is no doubt that there are people here who'd be interested in some of the features of this game and easily overlook the reflex thing. That's fine with me.

Perhaps, the gameplay is very deep, I didn't see that. The dialogue screen is simplistic, there is no mentioning of choices, and I don't care about the rest. Just an opinion, but at least you should be able to see where I'm coming from.

Give the game a chance, as I always say - it might turn out to be something. Or, it might not. Can't hurt to check it out, right?

Sure

Whipporowill said:
Aren't we supposed to be indie-friendly here at the Codex?

Can't speak for the whole Codex, but I'm personally only TB-friendly.

armagan said:
Actually the game uses player's reflexes along with character's stats. The amount of damage you deliver or receive depends on your stats and equipment. But whether your attack hits or misses depends solely on the collision detection in the 3d world.

Char stats are secondary here, determining only relatively minor modifiers. Out of curiosity, why have you decided to involve reflexes?

Determining hit/miss through character stats works well in turn based combat but if the game has a 3rd person or 1st person action mode it's kind of pointless

It worked well in Wiz games

If I clearly hit my opponent in the 3d window, I would like the game to acknowledge this fact and behave accordingly. Instead if it writes MISS on the screen and goes on, that is just annoying and distracting.

That's just a matter of animations. If you miss, yor opponent coudl instantly dodge or block.

Sol Invictus · May 31, 2004

Fucking A' people. Give the guy a chance. This is an independent developer. We're supposed to give independent developers a boost - whether or not they use real time or turn based is completely, I repeat, completely besides the issue. I think it's bad enough that all of the mainstream websites only cover the AAA titles and completely disregard the indy developers. We're supposed to be divergent from the norm, so, guys, give the game a chance. Whining about the combat system in this The Way of the Sword without even playing it is as bad as complaining about Geneforge being 'crap' based solely on the low graphics.

Sol Invictus · May 31, 2004

Wizardry, Silent Storm, and System Shock 1 and 2 are just some of the few RPGs we cover that don't offer much in terms of dialogue, or even story-related decision making. It's funny that you manage to overlook those games but completely single out an indy title like this one to rag on. I mean, come on.

You haven't even played it yet and you're already making conclusions based on a few materials on the site. You're ready to call it a 'nonRPG' when in fact we cover games like Dungeon Siege, and even argue with me about it - stating that DS is in fact an RPG. Why? Because it has stats. :roll:

It worked well in Wiz games

Fuck no. It was horrible. It totally detracted from immersion. I don't much fancy the whole Wizardry/Elder Scrolls method of 'action'. It's hardly immersive. I don't see the need for real time action if everything comes down to dice rolling. in games like these, all the clicks that you make with your mouse button are nothing but illusory bullshit thrown in to make the game seems more interesting than it actually is - which is to say it isn't.

Shevek · May 31, 2004

"We believe something is amiss in games where, the player saves the world battling against demonic hordes while in reality he does little more than clicking on enemies."

Certainly, this reflects a fundamentally different interpretation of what the roleplaying genre is than what is generally accepted here at the codex. Other aspects of the title certainly sound interesting but I can understand VD's aversion.

Edit: Also, I agree that TB worked well in many titles that have had 1st/3rd person roaming (Arkania, Wizardry, Krondor, etc - there are plenty)..

Anonymous · May 31, 2004

Ehh, VD, I dont think you should be so quick to dismiss an Indie developer, what's the point? It's not like they are getting some paycheck from their coporation, they just have an idea and are making games.

While the idea may not be 100% supar dupar RPG, it does sound like a fun game, and maybe with helpful criticism instead of 'lol sux', he may decide to do one after this. You wouldnt like it much if we just did 'lol sux' to the game you're creating, would you?

While praising a title with features that are contridictary to what we normally praise, shouldnt we give optimism to the indies?

I dunno, I just think the slamming was unneeded and I think the game might be okay, also even if it sucks, if we give him a helpful shove along, he might make something good and will probably return to here.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Exitium said:
Whining about the combat system in this The Way of the Sword without even playing it is as bad as complaining about Geneforge being 'crap' based solely on the low graphics.

Not the same. A game with poor graphics or even without any graphics could still have a great immersive gameplay (ADOM for example). A game that has questionable gameplay elements can't offer that.

Anyway, Armagan & Co made that decision for some reasons. I'm sure that can deal with reasonable criticism and answer some questions for us. So far nobody said anything offensive, so what's the big deal?

Wizardry, Silent Storm, and System Shock 1 and 2 are just some of the few RPGs we cover that don't offer much in terms of dialogue, or even story-related decision making. It's funny that you manage to overlook those games but completely single out an indy title like this one to rag on. I mean, come on.

Wiz and Silent Storm are turn-based, last time I checked. SS had bitching atmosphere and it was sci-fi, but I don't believe I've ever said that it was an RPG. I criticized the new game for combat. I brought up the simple dialogues and seemingly lack of choices to point that there is nothing else.

You haven't even played it yet and you're already making conclusions based on a few materials on the site

I haven't played FOBOS either. What's your point?

You're ready to call it a 'nonRPG' when in fact we cover games like Dungeon Siege, and even argue with me about it - stating that DS is in fact an RPG.

I don't recall ever arguing with anybody about DS being an RPG on account of stats. I dislike DS, and no amount of stats would ever make it an RPG. So, link please, or remove that assumption from your post.

Fuck no. It was horrible. It totally detracted from immersion

What you're trying to say "I didn't like it". Your opinion is noted. Btw, you are aware that Wiz and ES are different games with different styles?

POOPERSCOOPER · May 31, 2004

If you increase womens boobs and nipples in the game, then maybe I'll give the game a chance.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

LlamaGod said:
Ehh, VD, I dont think you should be so quick to dismiss an Indie developer, what's the point?

Hopefully, my criticism didn't kill the entire team, so they would be able to continue their work.

While the idea may not be 100% supar dupar RPG, it does sound like a fun game, and maybe with helpful criticism instead of 'lol sux'

I didn't say lol sux, I explained my point. There is a difference.

You wouldnt like it much if we just did 'lol sux' to the game you're creating, would you?

Honestly, wouldn't give a fuck, but that's just me. :lol:

I'm perfectly aware that some people wouldn't like my game because of some decisions. So what?

While praising a title with features that are contridictary to what we normally praise, shouldnt we give optimism to the indies?

Sounds like double standards to me. We trash Dungeon Lords after all. Also, we like indies not because we are anti-mainstream, but because many indies put gameplay and role-playing first. I salute any person who decides to make his own game as that takes a lot, but I treat all games the same way. I thought that was the point.

Spazmo · May 31, 2004

HEY VAULT DWELLER

armagan said:
New ACTION RPG

Action combat gameplay in an action RPG? Why I never! Also, I was pretty sure based on the avatar that DU was posting this, which rather suprised me since he's got his own ambitious RPG project that's going nowhere.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Wow, almost everybody's against me. Hmm, either I'm really a jerk, which is possible, or what we have here is a failure to communicate. I will go with the second thing. First, yes, of course, it's hard to imagine an action RPG without combat loaded with akshun, but....may I present you Exhibit A:

armagon said:
But whether your attack hits or misses depends solely on the collision detection in the 3d world.

You see, even Diablo's "to hit" rating was based on your char skill, and all you had to do was click in the right direction. This game takes action a bit too far for my taste.

Second, did I lock the thread and ban the guy? No. I merely expressed my opinion. So, what's all the fuss is about? Btw, what project DU is working on? Is it a secret project?

Spazmo · May 31, 2004

Yeah but your opinion is STUPID and BIASED and you're NUTTY AS A JAR OF PLANTER'S!

I guess that part does sound kinda wonky... my character's ability doesn't matter at all? That's pretty freakin' action RPG then.

And DU is just working on some sort of Fallout 2 mod--http://www.fanmadefallout.com--that'll probably never see the light of day or at least not until Pooper takes over as lead designer and whips everything into shape.

Vault Dweller · May 31, 2004

Spazmo said:
Yeah but your opinion is STUPID and BIASED and you're NUTTY AS A JAR OF PLANTER'S!

So? Do you have something against stupid people? :lol:

Country_Gravy · May 31, 2004

I think that the combat sounds pretty lame. I'm with you VD. It doesn't seem like they will be able to incorporate a bunch of stats and stuff if combat skill is almost soley determined by twitch gameplay.

P.S. I kind of like stupid people. They are easy to make fun of.

Whipporowill · May 31, 2004

Well, considering they have 2 riding skills, logistics and a prisoner management skill (!) it seems it's more of an indie rts than an rpg? Maybe somewhere along the lines of Spellforce? But still, it has freaking more skills than Dungeon Siege. Also, there's skills like weapon mastery and tactics in those screenshots, so how would this affect combat if it's collision based?

It certainly doesn't look like a game I've seen before at least - and that's usually a good thing.

New Action RPG: The Way of the Sword

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