If you could change one event in gaming history. . .

SpaceKungFuMan · Jul 27, 2008

What event in gaming history would you change if you had the chance? Some obvious ones are the closure of Troika, Interplay being bought out, or Oblivion getting such high scores, but there are lots of places where if something had gone differently, our hobby might not be in such a sorry place.

Personally, I would make MS cancel the xbox pre release. The xbox broke down the walls between console and PC games, thereby opening our smaller market up to consoletards who immediately began to exercise more market power than we did regarding traditional PC games. If the xbox had never come out, First Person real time combat might have stayed with shooters, Morrowind and Oblivion would never have been half as successful as they were, the abortion that is Kotor/JE/ME combat never would have existed, and PC RPGs in general probably would have just stayed more like what they were pre xbox.

Fat Dragon · Jul 27, 2008

The closing of Looking Glass. They made some great games.

Brother None · Jul 27, 2008

If we're talking about events turning RPGs into the sexploitation area they are now, the release of Baldur's Gate and - possibly - Diablo spring to mind.

But seriously, none of these events "changed" anything. RPGFPS being more viable as a genre has always been true, it's just not always been discovered by publishers. As long as the publisher model is what it is (and no single event formed the publishing model as we know it) such things at RTwP replacing TB and companies like Troika and Looking Glass going out off business are not "events", they're inevitable consequences.

Deleted member 7219 · Jul 27, 2008

the abortion that is Kotor/JE/ME combat never would have existed

Cry more.

And personally, I wish Oblivion had been an improvement on Morrowind, and not the crapheap it turned out to be.

SpaceKungFuMan · Jul 27, 2008

Brother None said:
If we're talking about events turning RPGs into the sexploitation area they are now, the release of Baldur's Gate and - possibly - Diablo spring to mind.

But seriously, none of these events "changed" anything. RPGFPS being more viable as a genre has always been true, it's just not always been discovered by publishers. As long as the publisher model is what it is (and no single event formed the publishing model as we know it) such things at RTwP replacing TB and companies like Troika and Looking Glass going out off business are not "events", they're inevitable consequences.

You really don't think the console/PC crossover mattered? Arena and Daggerfall did well enough for themselves, but it wasn't until Morrowind hit the xbox that Bethesda became a "top rpg developer". And can there be any doubt what market they aimed for? Then of course bioware released its next three games on consoles first, and all were clearly aimed at the console audience. We used to be the target audience, and we're not anymore, which makes sense, since the console market is so big, but damn it, I wish the wall could go back up.

skuphundaku · Jul 27, 2008

I would prevent Bungie from becoming a subsidiary of Microsoft. Remember Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth 2: Soulblighter? That was the old, free, ass kickin' Bungie, before they decided to become Microsoft's cronies and created the fanboy fueled Halo money making machine. We have to give it to them though, after Halo 3, they split from Microsoft, but the damage has already been done.

I would undo the creation & release of The Sims. It created such a mass following among non-hardcore gamer that one could say it was the forefather of casual gaming. It also boosted EA's sales and turned a pathetic, mostly sports games publisher into a huge, flush with money, strip mining mentality driven publisher.

I wouldn't have released Heroes of Might and Magic 4, which was, compared to Heroes of Might and Magic 3, a huge bust. The same goes for all Rainbow Six games that came after Rainbow Six: Raven Shield (namely, the console ports, Rainbow Six: Lockdown and the Rainbow Six: Vegas series)

I wouldn't have allowed Far Cry and Crysis to ship the way they did. They both had great, open ended tactical gameplay in the first half of the game which was shot to shit in their second parts, when monsters/aliens began to surface, which meant a much less cerebral style of play.

I wouldn't have allowed KoTOR 2 to ship, given that the game gives off a distinctive feeling that it was shipped unfinished (which, for all intents and purposes, it actually did).

I wouldn't have allowed the real Fallout 3 (Interplay's Van Buren) to die like it did. With some intelligent rebranding (like in the case of Monolith's Project Origin), the project could have been salvaged. By whom? By the Fallout community, by some gutsy new development team etc. The options would have been limitless.

Well... there are certainly more, but I don't remember them now

Volourn · Jul 27, 2008

I would cut out the crybaby 'fans'' vocal cords so we can play games silently so people cna play games they like, and simply not play games they dislike. Gaming would be way better that way.

Zinc · Jul 27, 2008

Consoles didn't ruin PC gaming - piracy did. The reason developers started focusing so heavily on console gaming is because there is more money to be made there, and that is largely because of piracy.

J1M · Jul 27, 2008

Most of these responses are so short-sighted, focussing on only one company.

I would prevent Nintendo from ressurecting the console market outside of Japan. Atari basically killed console gaming and the PC would be in a much better state now if it had stayed dead.

J1M · Jul 27, 2008

Zinc said:
Consoles didn't ruin PC gaming - piracy did. The reason developers started focusing so heavily on console gaming is because there is more money to be made there, and that is largely because of piracy.

Blizzard, Valve, and Stardock say hello.

The reason there is more money in console gaming is because you can release a crap game and still make a nice profit. The PC market tends to reward those with quality products who support their game for a long period of time.

SpaceKungFuMan · Jul 27, 2008

Zinc said:
Consoles didn't ruin PC gaming - piracy did. The reason developers started focusing so heavily on console gaming is because there is more money to be made there, and that is largely because of piracy.

You think its a coincidence that they started making the move when a console came out that used development tools they were familiar with, and which allowed them to easily develop games for PC and console at the same time? The economics were always the same, and I'll bet they always wanted a slice of that large market, but the Xbox made is viable for them to do it without incurring the huge transition costs associated with learning to program for the new systems, and cross platform development on radically different platforms.

AzraelCC · Jul 27, 2008

Todd Howard is born.

Fat Dragon · Jul 27, 2008

J1M said:
.I would prevent Nintendo from ressurecting the console market outside of Japan. Atari basically killed console gaming and the PC would be in a much better state now if it had stayed dead.

Didn't some of the best pc game developers get their start by making console games (such as Blizzard's Lost Vikings)?

Anyways, all you're doing is BAAAWWWING. Even if Nintendo had only released the NES in Japan it's huge success would have inspired companies in other countries to make one as well. Consoles would have become a huge success either way.

Texas Red · Jul 27, 2008

SpaceKungFuMan said:
Brother None said:

If we're talking about events turning RPGs into the sexploitation area they are now, the release of Baldur's Gate and - possibly - Diablo spring to mind.

But seriously, none of these events "changed" anything. RPGFPS being more viable as a genre has always been true, it's just not always been discovered by publishers. As long as the publisher model is what it is (and no single event formed the publishing model as we know it) such things at RTwP replacing TB and companies like Troika and Looking Glass going out off business are not "events", they're inevitable consequences.

Click to expand...

You really don't think the console/PC crossover mattered? Arena and Daggerfall did well enough for themselves, but it wasn't until Morrowind hit the xbox that Bethesda became a "top rpg developer". And can there be any doubt what market they aimed for? Then of course bioware released its next three games on consoles first, and all were clearly aimed at the console audience. We used to be the target audience, and we're not anymore, which makes sense, since the console market is so big, but damn it, I wish the wall could go back up.

*sighs*

The only reason Biowhore released games on consoles is because MS fed them huge chunks of money for "exclusivity". It is well known and documented that both the BGs and NWNs sold more than their console craps.

Jeff Graw · Jul 27, 2008

I'd make Starflight and Mario trade places, so Mario was some unheard of game on the PC, while Starflight would be an extremely popular game on the NES. That would do it, that would do it for sure.

SpaceKungFuMan · Jul 27, 2008

Dark Individual said:
*sighs*

The only reason Biowhore released games on consoles is because MS fed them huge chunks of money for "exclusivity". It is well known and documented that both the BGs and NWNs sold more than their console craps.

This is true, but noone other than MS would have done it, because Sony and Nintendo were japan based and never needed to try and bring in non console companies to actually get some content on their systems, since they got content from the traditional japanese console developers.

Data4 · Jul 27, 2008

I would work some mojo that would allow us to watch a developer interview with one of the gaming sites that featured the caption "Julian LeFay, Executive Producter, TES4: Oblivion", complete with a cameo of the Toddling in the background bringing him coffee.

Volourn · Jul 27, 2008

"The PC market tends to reward those with quality products who support their game for a long period of time."

Bullshit.

"It is well known and documented that both the BGs and NWNs sold more than their console craps."

ME may beg to differ. And, you forget that both of thsoe probably cost more to develop, and in the case of BG they probably had to share a heck of a lot of the profit with Interplay, and I'm sure NWN was costly too consideirng they had to s witch publishers mid stream. Then again, NWN was/is their most successful game. R00fles!

"Then of course bioware released its next three games on consoles first"

Why do you fuckin' lie? :roll:

P.S. BIO has been making console games since their inception. LMAO

SpaceKungFuMan · Jul 27, 2008

Volourn said:
"The PC market tends to reward those with quality products who support their game for a long period of time."

Bullshit.

"It is well known and documented that both the BGs and NWNs sold more than their console craps."

ME may beg to differ. And, you forget that both of thsoe probably cost more to develop, and in the case of BG they probably had to share a heck of a lot of the profit with Interplay, and I'm sure NWN was costly too consideirng they had to s witch publishers mid stream. Then again, NWN was/is their most successful game. R00fles!

"Then of course bioware released its next three games on consoles first"

Why do you fuckin' lie?

P.S. BIO has been making console games since their inception. LMAO

They made one fucking console game, which was a sequel to a game they did not even make. Hardly in their core line of business. And in case you somehow forgot, post NWN, all their games came to consoles first. KOTOR, JE, and ME were all on the xbox or 360 prior to PC release. Those were their "next 3 games" after NWN.

Volourn · Jul 27, 2008

"KOTOR, JE, and ME were all on the xbox or 360 prior to PC release."

KOTOR was always a xbox/PC game from the get go.

"They made one fucking console game, which was a sequel to a game they did not even make"

Yeah, because they have made TONS of PC games at the time comapred to console games. L0L

"Hardly in their core line of business"

So.. you admit they betrayed their medical software fans, right? Since.. that was what BIO was created for. L0L

As for JE, and ME. yeah, those were console games.. yet, their vastly superior to BG, SOU, NWN OC, and KOTOR. *shrug*

Korgan · Jul 27, 2008

I'd stop Interplay from butchering Black Isle with Van Buren in development.

Volourn · Jul 27, 2008

1. I'd have BG2 have a solid expansion pack ala BG with TOTSC, and make TOB into a full fledge BG3.

2. I'd keep Interplay/BIS in business and have them make FO3.

3. I'd get Troika to listen to me, and have them try to make TOEE their own game instead of simply copy pasting the pnp version.

J1M · Jul 27, 2008

Fat Dragon said:
J1M said:

.I would prevent Nintendo from ressurecting the console market outside of Japan. Atari basically killed console gaming and the PC would be in a much better state now if it had stayed dead.

Click to expand...

Anyways, all you're doing is BAAAWWWING. Even if Nintendo had only released the NES in Japan it's huge success would have inspired companies in other countries to make one as well. Consoles would have become a huge success either way.

The NES was already a success in Japan. Even so, retailers refused to stock it in America until Nintendo guaranteed that they would buy back all unsold units.

After the NES was introduced it outsold the other options that were on the market 10:1. The other options were just not compelling. The marketplace would be very different today. There isn't even a need to speculate on this matter. A glance at eastern europe will show how PC can flourish in the absence of console dumbing down.

Gromnir · Jul 27, 2008

1) shrink tim cain's ego.

am not sure why he thought that he could run a development/business. he had some neato ideas, but actual execution o' development and business dealings with publishers were managing to destroy whatever good ideas he and troika started out with.

example: toee, from start, were anticipated by atari to form the basis o' a series o' games. that means that atari were envisioning multiple games with tb combat. furthermore, if toee had been popular, it would have inspired other developers to make similar games. entertainment that is as capital demanding as game development is always gonna tend towards low-risk and high reward projects. clones is low risk.

troika had an incredible opportunity to resurrect tb combat in crpgs. however, just as success breeds imitators, failure is treated likes a plague victim. troika helped further bury tb combat.

have beat to death the mistakes troika made over the years, so we won't dredge up again save to note that most o' troika's problems seemed to be organizational and business related. am gonna blame tim 'cause he is obvious culprit, but this might not be fair. regardless, troika business and organizational acumen were suspect.

2) the success of iwd

iwd were an experiment. oddly enough, it may have initially been deemed a failure, 'cause it were envisioned to be released before diablo 2 and bg2... kinda an appetizer before the main course. interplay/bis wanted to makes a small-scale game with a short development period that would take advantage o' the fans anticipating the release o' two expected crpg goliaths.

iwd were released after diablo 2. so it failed? nope. given the fact that iwd were built by a largely rookie development team working with an unfriendly engine and a very limited time-frame, iwd were wildly successful... probably bis' most successful in-house game development. whenever peoples complain 'bout time frame give troika for toee (a time frame troika agreed to from day 1) we gotta laugh, 'cause the n00bs at bis did a better job with iwd in less time.

...

iwd success were a tragedy. instead o' working on possibly ground breaking games such as fo3 or bg3, bis went back to the iwd well when things got tough.

3) ip license of lithtech

am not sure anything really needs be said on this. chump(s) at ip somehow got suckered into purchasing lithtech license and designing a game 'round it.... a game that got considerable wasted development time that coulda' been spent on fo3 or some other project. what a colossal waste, and it were clearly an avoidable error.

HA! Good Fun!

Deleted member 7219 · Jul 27, 2008

Princess Volourn said:
NWN was/is their most successful game

KOTOR probably beats it in terms of both financial and critical success.

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