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NWN2: Storm of Zehir at E3

Shoelip

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,814
Erg, this sounds interesting too... Why did the original have to be so crappy?
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
6,927
LOL ICEWIND DALE 2 WITH CARAVANS

In a typical feat of gaming journalism, the article manages to not tell almost anything of value. Neither do the screenshots, really.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
has there been any word on this being sold bundled with mask of the betrayer?
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
Location
USA
Actually, the bullet points that came with the screenshots were interesting to me:
  • Overland Map: Travel the Sword Coast and Samarach using the open ended exploration of the new Overland Map. Use skills like Spot and Survival while on the Overland Map to avoid ambushes and even find hidden locales and lost artifacts.
  • Create your own full party of adventurers: Devastate your foes with a squad of fireball-flinging Sorcerers, form a solid wall of steel with a party of Fighters, or strike the perfect balance in your party by spreading out the classes you choose for your characters.
  • Improved party gameplay: Players can participate in streamlined party conversations, a new Teamwork Benefit System, and powerful party feats.
  • World reaction: The world's economy reacts to your adventures and choices. Through trading and quests, you can expand your merchant company into a massive trading empire.
  • Updated classic features: New classes (including prestige classes), spells, creatures, and playable races.
I like the last 2 bullet points. More spells is always fun, and seeing how the world reacts will keep my interest, at least in part.
 

fastpunk

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Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
1,798
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under the sun
The combat system needs some tweaking and so do the camera controls. But otherwise the game is feature rich and some of the new stuff sounds really neat. It has an interesting premise and to be honest, I've grown very comfortable with NWN2. Enough to ignore some of its clunkier aspects. Definitely looking forward to this!
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Shoelip said:
Erg, this sounds interesting too... Why did the original have to be so crappy?

It is called Faergus Urquhart and his business sense
Obs guys release a dumb game once in a while for the mainstream crowd - and then make addons like we want them - because they won't cost much, obs guys already have a publisher and even if addon will fail it won't be a big deal.
 

Shoelip

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,814
Clever, wish he worked for Troika. But why couldn't NWN2 be just a bit less... boring?
 

bezimek

Scholar
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
270
Location
Poland
It`s look interesting. So we will travel like in F1/2 (Overland Map) - if so it`s work for me.
 

SpaceKungFuMan

Scholar
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
253
Shoelip said:
Clever, wish he worked for Troika. But why couldn't NWN2 be just a bit less... boring?

At least the OC was better than NWN1's OC. But yeah. . . the expansions are what's making the game classic.

But I disagree that first games are all dumbed down for Obsidian. KOTOR2 was not dumbed down at all, from a story/character perspective. It was just horribly incomplete. So they're 1 for 2 in making interesting main games, and look to be 2 for 2 on expansions. Not a bad track record so far. Whether or not AP is appealing to serious players remains to be seen of course. That doesn't seem like a game likely to get an expansion, so here's hoping its good from the start.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Urkanistan
KotOR2 was dumbed down in a gameplay way. Just like its predecessor, so no wonder.
However everything else was more complex and KotOR2 wasn't successful. So no wonder that NWN2 OC was such a mainstream shit.
Now they've spent money on 2 addons + on that ever elusive Aliens RPG so it's nothing surprising that AP looks like ME in Middle East and they hype it for dumb console crowd.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
skyway said:
KotOR2 was dumbed down in a gameplay way. Just like its predecessor, so no wonder.
However everything else was more complex and KotOR2 wasn't successful. So no wonder that NWN2 OC was such a mainstream shit.
Now they've spent money on 2 addons + on that ever elusive Aliens RPG so it's nothing surprising that AP looks like ME in Middle East and they hype it for dumb console crowd.

How do you know it wasn't successful? It was probably more successful than an average game because

1. KotOR 1 was extremely well received and sold enough to have a sequel

2. 1 year development time only
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
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Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Dark Individual said:
How do you know it wasn't successful? It was probably more successful than an average game because

1. KotOR 1 was extremely well received and sold enough to have a sequel

2. 1 year development time only

because of 2. - and console kiddos received much more bugged version than we did. And also pretty many players that don't care about deep games were stating on various forums incl. much less casual than an average forum ag.ru that KotOR2 was inferior to its predecessor due to raping the sw setting/having boring story/looking worse than K1 etc
Also KotOR1 received universal praise from media whores in a form of 35 goty awards. KotOR2 never achieved that - and you perfectly know that the lack of a retarded hype heavily and negatively affects sales.
Think logically and you can presume that KotOR2 indeed did not sell all too well - thus NWN2 OC appeared. I doubt that Obs would've released something like that if they wouldn't need money. Because as we know Obs can release a great game when they try.
 

SpaceKungFuMan

Scholar
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
253
skyway said:
KotOR2 was dumbed down in a gameplay way. Just like its predecessor, so no wonder.
However everything else was more complex and KotOR2 wasn't successful. So no wonder that NWN2 OC was such a mainstream shit.
Now they've spent money on 2 addons + on that ever elusive Aliens RPG so it's nothing surprising that AP looks like ME in Middle East and they hype it for dumb console crowd.

PS:T doesn't have good gameplay. Arcanum doesn't have good gameplay. Bloodlines has awful gameplay. MotB doesn't have good gameplay. Darklands has terrible gameplay. I don't really give a fuck about combat anymore if the story/characters/roleplaying are good. I think that now a game needs great combat (BG series, Icewind Dale Series, ToEE) or great story/characters/roleplaying at this point. It doesn't seem like we're gonna get a fusion of the two like Fallout, Krondor, or Wizardry anytime soon. The real problem is the KOTOR1's, NWN's and JE's of the world that have at best mediocre roleplaying and mediocre gameplay.
 

Relayer71

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
538
Location
NYC
If Kotor 2 had:

- Combat encounters reduced by 20%
- Remaining combat encounter difficulty increased significantly (50% - 60% harder)
- 6 - 9 months more development time to fix the end game and include cut content

It would have been an amazing game.

For NWN2 change this to:

- Combat encounters reduced by 35%
- Remaining combat encounter difficulty increased (25% - 40% harder)
- 6 - 9 months more development time to fix bugs, improve A.I. and grealy improve game performance (game would play significantly better if overall movement was sped up by about 20% and ran at a decent frame rate)

And it too would have been a great game. Not perfect, you still have the mediocre storyline and linear gameplay, but it would have been an excellent game anyway.

Too bad the NWN2 engine is so clunky. Imagine MoTB in an engine that ran smoothly AND looked great. One thing I hate about it is the low framerate, slow overall movement speed and the awful camera - you spend more time adjusting the camera than playing the game. Still, I'm looking forward to the new expansion.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
Ignoring that every review that I saw by now has the same 5 screenshots.. I like the beginning of the game (not story, thanks god!) very much.

I am someone who hates linearity in a rpg above all. So hopefully with this 2nd expansion I will be able to finally fully enjoy nwn2. I deserve it, I bought both the OC and MotB. :D

I can just hope that some nwn/d&d flaws will be corrected.... SoZ is in its final stage of development, right? So no wishlists? Even a little one? Developers? Can I? :(

And I don't get the criticism from some people who say nwn2 doesn't look good. It looks great. It has some bad combat animations - like evading a blow when you carry a shield (and swinging the shield backwards) or mummies and zombies evading blows instead of "parrying" them with their body.. but the rest is not bad at all. (Devs, fix this. ;) )
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
skyway said:
*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
Anthony Davis said:
This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

You don't want me to go in smash-dgaider mode, ehm.. smash-developer mode. :x This is a topic about SoZ and you talk about kotor 2..

So... is there any more time to change something in SoZ? Like.. instead of armor confering AC they confer damage reduction? Pretty please.

Like:
Plate mail (average) - Damage reduction: 2d5. (calculated on every hit)
Material resistance: 3d3. (like above)

All weapons would have an armor penetration value, which would vary depending on the quality/enchantment (1d4, 1d6, 1d2+2 for example), like the dr and mr of armors. To this value you'd add your halved str/dex modifiers. If this numer is higher than the material resistance roll the damage reduction would be halved.
Copyright by Warden.

What do you think? :)
 

SpaceKungFuMan

Scholar
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
253
Warden said:
Anthony Davis said:
This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

You don't want me to go in smash-dgaider mode, ehm.. smash-developer mode. :x This is a topic about SoZ and you talk about kotor 2..

So... is there any more time to change something in SoZ? Like.. instead of armor confering AC they confer damage reduction? Pretty please.

Like:
Plate mail (average) - Damage reduction: 2d5. (calculated on every hit)
Material resistance: 3d3. (like above)

All weapons would have an armor penetration value, which would vary depending on the quality/enchantment (1d4, 1d6, 1d2+2 for example), like the dr and mr of armors. To this value you'd add your halved str/dex modifiers. If this numer is higher than the material resistance roll the damage reduction would be halved.
Copyright by Warden.

What do you think? :)

Isn't Josh doing something similar to this in the black hound?
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
Oh, yeah.. and I forgot to add something.
The heavier the armor is the bigger would be the penality to dexterity (without the maximum dexterity AC limit!).
For example.. plate mails would give a -3 dex penality (with some enchanted ones giving for example only -2 etc.)

And every 2 BAB you'd get +1 to AC (dodge for example).
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
SpaceKungFuMan said:
Isn't Josh doing something similar to this in the black hound?

Hmm, I don't know who is he and what is he doing. Haven't copied this from anywhere. But yes, it's possible someone has something similar in mind as well. :)
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Warden said:
Anthony Davis said:
This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

You don't want me to go in smash-dgaider mode, ehm.. smash-developer mode. :x This is a topic about SoZ and you talk about kotor 2..

So... is there any more time to change something in SoZ? Like.. instead of armor confering AC they confer damage reduction? Pretty please.

Like:
Plate mail (average) - Damage reduction: 2d5. (calculated on every hit)
Material resistance: 3d3. (like above)

All weapons would have an armor penetration value, which would vary depending on the quality/enchantment (1d4, 1d6, 1d2+2 for example), like the dr and mr of armors. To this value you'd add your halved str/dex modifiers. If this numer is higher than the material resistance roll the damage reduction would be halved.
Copyright by Warden.

What do you think? :)


We are making a DnD game, so we are limited to what rules we can change.

In DnD, this model of DR that you have described, which kind of represents armor penetration, has been rolled into one value, the Armor Class.

The model you describe rings a bell to me. I vaguely recalling reading about a similar system when I was younger, but it was fixed values and it wasn't DnD. I remember things like chainmail was -2 to damage and plate was -3...or something like that.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
SpaceKungFuMan said:
Warden said:
Anthony Davis said:
This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

You don't want me to go in smash-dgaider mode, ehm.. smash-developer mode. :x This is a topic about SoZ and you talk about kotor 2..

So... is there any more time to change something in SoZ? Like.. instead of armor confering AC they confer damage reduction? Pretty please.

Like:
Plate mail (average) - Damage reduction: 2d5. (calculated on every hit)
Material resistance: 3d3. (like above)

All weapons would have an armor penetration value, which would vary depending on the quality/enchantment (1d4, 1d6, 1d2+2 for example), like the dr and mr of armors. To this value you'd add your halved str/dex modifiers. If this numer is higher than the material resistance roll the damage reduction would be halved.
Copyright by Warden.

What do you think? :)

Isn't Josh doing something similar to this in the black hound?

I believe he has something similar planned.
 

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