Saint_Proverbius
Servant Mind
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 11384
Location: Behind you.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Yet Another State of the RPG at GamePlayer |
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GamePlayer has a longish State of the RPG article up which covers various aspects of the genre. Apparently it's this year that the XBox will take over the genre. There's also some fun stuff about Eastern CRPGs(which suck) versus Western CRPGs(which are heaps better). It mentions several CRPGs in development, including this one:
Think Aliens is a weird choice for an RPG? Lead designer Josh Sawyer doesn’t: "It’s always seemed like a perfect fit to me… Somebody has to make an RPG where the moment-to-moment gameplay is both visceral and fun." Exploring a ruined space hulk or a ravaged planet stuffed with those acid-bleeding xenomorphs could undoubtedly be cool.
Still seems weird to me. Land of the Dead would make more sense, but that's probably because I want a George Romero style zombie CRPG.
Spotted at: Blue's News |
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Section8
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Joined: 23 Oct 2002
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Location: Wardenclyffe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Todd Howard, executive producer of the proudly Western Fallout 3 at Bethesda, puts it more simply. “We stay away from all the big cut-scene/story-telling stuff, to be honest,” he says. “We’re more fans of the ‘make your own story’ idea.” |
:facepalm
| Quote: | | And that was the norm for the original Xbox. Gamers got to play the absolute cream of Western RPGs, from Fable and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind. |
:facepalm
| Quote: | | Amongst console gamers it succeeded in creating a whole new audience for the Western-style RPG, which relied more upon fast-paced real-time combat and realistic-looking characters. |
:facepalm
Those are all consecutive quotes, too. Enough to stop me reading.
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TheLostOne
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 604
Location: Limbo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Every time I hear about this game (the aliens RPG) I think X-Com.
This is maybe just wishful thinking, but they say it's squad based and I just imagine X-Com with more indepth character interaction and start to drool.
Chances are it's just another ME shooter RPG type though.
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Saint_Proverbius
Servant Mind
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
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Location: Behind you.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Section8 wrote: | | Those are all consecutive quotes, too. Enough to stop me reading. |
The bit about the Aliens CRPG was the only part of it that didn't make me bang my head on my desk.
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Hümmelgümpf
Formerly known as Lestat
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 2947
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| This stuff is painful to read. But what did you expect? The article is obviously targeted at XBox owners. |
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Kingston
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 3496
Location: I lack the wit to put something hilarious here
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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"Amongst console gamers it succeeded in creating a whole new audience for the Western-style RPG, which relied more upon fast-paced real-time combat and realistic-looking characters."
Because relying on realistic-looking characters is the key to crpg success.
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Schauman
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh Jesus, Morpheus and plety of other prophets to boot. That article is so full of dung with corn chunks on top. The way they go with RPG equalling a big world, a big storyline and a big budget is sad. Howard and his quote on "fun" combat is truly great, proving that F3 is in good hands. I can't even bother with "The Secrets of RPG Success" and the stupidity it contains. |
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spacemoose
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 9200
Location: california
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Yet Another State of the RPG at GamePlayer |
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| Saint_Proverbius wrote: | a <b>George Romero</b> style zombie CRPG.
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I've been throwing around the idea of making a silent storm mod with this premise
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Sarvis
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Schauman wrote: | | Howard and his quote on "fun" combat is truly great, |
So you prefer boring combat?
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dagorkan
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Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 5166
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Great, all we need is another logic lesson from Sarvis
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Sarvis
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dagorkan wrote: | | Great, all we need is another logic lesson from Sarvis |
No no, don't worry. Wouldn't want to interrupt the mutual masturbation session. I mean, who care's about the viewpoints of people who <i>actually make games</i> when we can read all the idiotic knee jerk reactions of people who don't even bother to play them anymore.
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spacemoose
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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Location: california
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'll start playing them again when they start being good again.
for now, paradox and ageod are my methadone to blackisle and troika heroin
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Schauman
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sarvis wrote: | | Schauman wrote: | | Howard and his quote on "fun" combat is truly great, |
So you prefer boring combat? |
The main concern was on how will the repetive fun get done in F3. Looking at Toddsters previous games, I fear we are in for some fun, fun and fun button mashing which requires no thought at all but merely sticking the operational end of the given weapon at the target while pulling the trigger / swinging the blunt axe. Also looking how aimbots are the new soil errosion for console games, I guess you just need to focus on pulling the trigger in the end while scoring one hit kills with the V.A.T.S.
That description does fit for 90% of the mainstream games but atleast some of them try to be diverse and different.
I prefer my combat as something that challenges my cerebral cortex to a degree atleast while spiced up with variation instead of merely using my muscle memory for mashing the L1 of my mouse until Logitech calls with a job offer for stress testing their products.
For knee jerk reactions, internet journalism was my teacher. I don't even bother with checking the names for games anymore. |
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Herbert West
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 1288
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Todd Howard, executive producer of the proudly Western Fallout 3 at Bethesda, puts it more simply. “We stay away from all the big cut-scene/story-telling stuff, to be honest,” he says. “We’re more fans of the ‘make your own story’ idea.” |
What the fuck? It sounds like and excuse why they will screw up the story. Does he want to say that RPGs should be played like "Oblivion roleplaying fag club" says it should?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
Player interaction and consequences of those interactions for the story should be present, but fuck me, there needs to be a story to begin with!
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callehe
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Gothic Castle
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | After that, it’s all about the grind – specifically, disguising it so you don’t notice that it’s there. Howard again: “Mostly it’s about plenty of player progression and making repetitive actions, such as combat, interesting. If the basic monster-killing is fun and exciting, I will do it over and over for hours on end – especially if it unlocks new abilities.” |
Yes, I bet you would Todd, I bet you would... *sigh
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VonVentrue
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 555
Location: HPCE
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Yet Another State of the RPG at GamePlayer |
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| Quote: | | The fact that this is a sequel to an ageing franchise that hasn’t had an entry in ten years shouldn’t matter – this is Bethesda’s next project, and if Oblivion’s anything to go by, it’ll be a cracker. |
An astounding degree of predictability today's game journalism exhibits never ceizes to amaze me.
| Quote: | | quest in Oblivion is a great example of clever puzzling. |
Last edited by VonVentrue on Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slipgate_angel
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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There were some intresting quotes in there, along with the comedy of Howard and Gavin the mutant.
| Todd the douch wrote: | | “We stay away from all the big cut-scene/story-telling stuff, to be honest,” he says. “We’re more fans of the ‘make your own story’ idea.” |
I'm sorry, but isn't an RPG mainly a story telling game? A storytelling game without a story is like playing Halo without the covenant or flood trying to kill you.
| Todd on more bullshit wrote: | | “Mostly it’s about plenty of player progression and making repetitive actions, such as combat, interesting. If the basic monster-killing is fun and exciting, I will do it over and over for hours on end – especially if it unlocks new abilities.” |
New abilities I can understand, I mean after all, Icewind dale was great when it came to spoiling you with special items...but JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST, grind? Grind is one of the reasons I don't play J-rpg's.
| Quote: | | Amongst console gamers it succeeded in creating a whole new audience for the Western-style RPG, which relied more upon fast-paced real-time combat and realistic-looking characters. |
Why can't we have people like Joemad making RPGs?
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21866.html
I'm sure if Todd had to work with him, he would throw such a hissy fit. "No no no, the knights can't look like that, they have to be more REALISTIC looking. We can't over the top preportions, that breaks teh IMEERSION." |
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DarkUnderlord
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 11108
Location: Sitting on the outside, looking in and complaining a lot.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Lestat wrote: | | This stuff is painful to read. But what did you expect? The article is obviously targeted at XBox owners. |
Are you kidding? An article where they interview three guys who are so full of bullshit it's not funny? This stuff is pure gold!
| Totogotchimocha wrote: | | “In J-RPGs, especially under Sakaguchi-san, emotion is a fundamental part of the game, as well as certain narratives, which are also extremely important to the storyline.” |
Oh "emotion", is that what they call stupid looking characters and dumb plots in Japan?
| GamePlaya wrote: | | we’re now in an unusual situation where there are currently more Eastern RPGs (Enchanted Arms, Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata) on the system than there are Western ones. |
Considering Japan seems to pump out sequel after sequel, how is this unusual at all?
| GamePlaya wrote: | | The last Final Fantasy game, for example, took well over five years to reach the shelves, at a cost of roughly $40 million – that’s the same as a medium-budget Hollywood movie. Hence why you don’t see them all that often on your console. |
Right. So uh... The fact that they're up to number 13 now seems to have been missed? They've released a new Final Fantasy game every 2 years for the past decade without fail. That's "not often"? What do you want, one every other week? Behold, the apex of the RPG genre!
Final word has to go to the Crazy French Man though:
| Molyneux wrote: | | says Molyneux. “For this reason I would describe Mass Effect as a true RPG game. But I predict that the RPGs we’ll be playing in five years time will be radically different from the RPG’s that we are playing today.” |
God I hope so because right now, RPG's are shit.
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Saxon1974
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1432
Location: The Desert Wasteland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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This article got me thinking....
My fiance and I went to a Target store to register for gifts for our wedding. Well, as most guys out there know this process is more about the female than the male. I thought well at least at target I could register for some cool electronics.
So i walked over and was looking at the XBOX and Wii game systems. I am mildly interested in the XBOX 360 as there are a couple of games on it im interested in. It is a tough decision for me though because Im a PC gamer at heart and I dont want to do anything that would hurt PC gaming. So I stood there and couldn't decide if I wanted to register for it or not.
In the end I decided there are not enough games on the XBOX that I like enough to buy combined with the fact that I dont want to support the whole console movement, especially since they are 50 ot 60$ a piece, which means I would only buy games at reduced prices on ebay and places like that....
Im just a bit frustrated that many titles are being released for the XBOS only now, not that many of those are the types of games I would want to play.
So for now I have decided not to put any of my money in a new console system.
Sorry for the rant, this topic just made me think about it.
Are we really going to lose PC gaming completely? I doubt it, but it is concerning to think about. |
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Sarvis
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 5049
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| DarkUnderlord wrote: |
Oh "emotion", is that what they call stupid looking characters and dumb plots in Japan? |
No, it's what humans have. It can happen when you grow an attachment to characters or a storyline. Try playing Lost Odyssey and tell me there's nothing emotional there.
Actually, nevermind... you're a Codexer... you'd laugh. Although, technically that'd still be an emotion.
| Quote: |
| GamePlaya wrote: | | we’re now in an unusual situation where there are currently more Eastern RPGs (Enchanted Arms, Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata) on the system than there are Western ones. |
Considering Japan seems to pump out sequel after sequel, how is this unusual at all? |
The really, REALLY funny part? Not ONE of the games he named is a sequel. But I'm sure the WRPG developers do so much better, right? What's that? Elder Scrolls IV? Fallout 3? Yeah, get your head out of your ass.
| Quote: |
Right. So uh... The fact that they're up to number 13 now seems to have been missed? They've released a new Final Fantasy game every 2 years for the past decade without fail. That's "not often"? What do you want, one every other week? Behold, the apex of the RPG genre! |
Final Fantasy XI 5/16/02 JP
Final Fantasy X-2 3/13/03 JP
Final Fantasy XII 3/16/06 JP
Hrm... I count 3 years, and really more than that since X-2 was a "quickie" that went so far as to re-use areas from FFX. In fact, since FFXI was an MMORPG there wasn't a "real" Final Fantasy between 2001 and... well shit, 12 sucked so the last real Final Fantasy was 7 years ago.
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| Molyneux wrote: | | says Molyneux. “For this reason I would describe Mass Effect as a true RPG game. But I predict that the RPGs we’ll be playing in five years time will be radically different from the RPG’s that we are playing today.” |
God I hope so because right now, RPG's are shit. |
Maybe your vaunted WRPGs are shit, but JRPGs like Lost Odyssey have restored my faith in the genre. Sucks to be you, I guess.
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Sarvis
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 5049
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Schauman wrote: | | Sarvis wrote: | | Schauman wrote: | | Howard and his quote on "fun" combat is truly great, |
So you prefer boring combat? |
The main concern was on how will the repetive fun get done in F3. Looking at Toddsters previous games, I fear we are in for some fun, fun and fun button mashing which requires no thought at all but merely sticking the operational end of the given weapon at the target while pulling the trigger / swinging the blunt axe. Also looking how aimbots are the new soil errosion for console games, I guess you just need to focus on pulling the trigger in the end while scoring one hit kills with the V.A.T.S.
That description does fit for 90% of the mainstream games but atleast some of them try to be diverse and different.
I prefer my combat as something that challenges my cerebral cortex to a degree atleast while spiced up with variation instead of merely using my muscle memory for mashing the L1 of my mouse until Logitech calls with a job offer for stress testing their products.
For knee jerk reactions, internet journalism was my teacher. I don't even bother with checking the names for games anymore. |
You're really putting a lot of assumption into his simple statement that fun combat is important. You know that... right?
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Thrasher
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Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 1235
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
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wow. That article was full of lies. In particular, I loved this paragraph.
| Quote: | | It’s designed to feel like what the capital’s wasteland should feel like – a post-apocalyptic world where people scratch out an existence in these settlements – as opposed to Oblivion where it was the capital province at the height of the reign of this empire, with big bustling cities. ” |
Bustling cities? More like pratically empty small towns, with people wandering around with little significant interaction with the PC.
This means there will be ten people total. Lots of deep storyline, and tons of quests  |
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Section8
Synaesthete
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 4309
Location: Wardenclyffe
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | wow. That article was full of lies. In particular, I loved this paragraph. |
I wonder whether they're conscious lies, or if they actually believe their own horseshit. For instance:
| Quote: | | Todd Howard, executive producer of the proudly Western Fallout 3 at Bethesda, puts it more simply. “We stay away from all the big cut-scene/story-telling stuff, |
So I imagined Patrick Stewart, Sean Bean, Terence Stamp, and all the barely intreactive set-pieces they gave voiceover to? The in-engine cutscenes showing Kvatch burning, Oblivion gates opening, etc.? From what we've seen of Fallout 3, they're heading even further in this direction.
| Quote: | | to be honest,” he says. “We’re more fans of the ‘make your own story’ idea.” |
There's a big difference between "make your own story" and "live your own story". For starters, the first one doesn't require anyone to buy your shitty games.
| Quote: | | Amongst console gamers it succeeded in creating a whole new audience for the Western-style RPG, which relied more upon fast-paced real-time combat |
Wasn't he talking about KOTOR and Morrowind a sentence ago? Do people actually believe these are "fast-paced"? Have they ever played an action game at all, let alone something like Geometry Wars or Audiosurf with Squarepusher songs on Ironmode?
| Quote: | | and realistic-looking characters. |
Like Fable, which takes its cues from anime? Or Morrowind, with its ugly-as-fuck segmented humanoid robots? Like KOTOR, packed full of aliens, robots, furries and humans that could be the caricature bad guys out of any saturday morning cartoon you care to name?
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| crakkie wrote: | | Multiheaded dick swings and hits you in the ass and leg for 10 points. |
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Thrasher
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Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 1235
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Section8 wrote: |
I wonder whether they're conscious lies, or if they actually believe their own horseshit. |
Probably a smattering of both. Maybe what was envisioned, turning into what actually was doable. But that would be giving them the benefit of the doubt... |
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RK47
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 2738
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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I simply do not see the justification of spending 40 million dollars on a game whatsoever.Especially since RPGs are mostly about good characters and story with a decent combat & interaction system underneath as the form of input by the players.
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