Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

NWN2: Storm of Zehir expansion (now confirmed)

Amon Gesoto

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
72
Location
My chair
Jasede said:
I think everyone needs to chill out a little and hope that there'll be a nice balance between well-written NPCs (and I don't care if they're able to join or not) and your self-created party. Obsidian has shown they can do good stuff half the time, so let's see what becomes of this.

I don't think "hope" has a place in the Codex lexicon.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Amon Gesoto said:
Jasede said:
I think everyone needs to chill out a little and hope that there'll be a nice balance between well-written NPCs (and I don't care if they're able to join or not) and your self-created party. Obsidian has shown they can do good stuff half the time, so let's see what becomes of this.

I don't think "hope" has a place in the Codex lexicon.
Oh, it's there. It's synonymous with Van Buren.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
It'll be fine as long as they don't force the custom-made companions down my throat; i.e. I want to be able to choose not to have any of them and at the same time being able to complete the game without mega cheesy tactics. This can be accomplished by, like I said 100 times already, splitting the earned xp between party members.

I have a clear preference towards pre-made, standard joinables.. not because I'm some retarded bitch who craves for OH MY I WANT DEEP DIALOGUES WITH MY NPCS AND... ROMANCES!!.. but because there's something special about encountering a stranger on the road who's offering his help, and who is not YOU. Yes, I enjoy some initial dialogues to discover something about his personality and the casual comments are fine - but please, don't bother me for the whole game with your philosophies; SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I must also say that I have a slight phobia regarding joinable NPCs after playing through the NWN2 OC - "Oh no, will this NPC also stay in the party after I tell him to leave 35647 times!? *shivering* "
 

Amon Gesoto

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
72
Location
My chair
Vaarna_Aarne said:
Amon Gesoto said:
Jasede said:
I think everyone needs to chill out a little and hope that there'll be a nice balance between well-written NPCs (and I don't care if they're able to join or not) and your self-created party. Obsidian has shown they can do good stuff half the time, so let's see what becomes of this.

I don't think "hope" has a place in the Codex lexicon.
Oh, it's there. It's synonymous with Van Buren.

Non-existent in other words?
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Jasede said:
Well, of course you have good point, Lumpy. But I see this add-on as a return to some really old dungeon-crawl playstyle - but coupled with Obsidian's writing.

I think everyone needs to chill out a little and hope that there'll be a nice balance between well-written NPCs (and I don't care if they're able to join or not) and your self-created party. Obsidian has shown they can do good stuff half the time, so let's see what becomes of this.
I wouldn't mind a good dungeon crawler, but I don't think it will work with NWN2. A dungeon crawler should be turn based, and have a small number of classes and abilities, requiring intelligent use of every one of them. NWN2, though, has a fuckton of classes and abilities, many of them worthless. The challenge in a dungeon crawler should be almost entirely what you do with your character, while in NWN2 it amounts to making a better character.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
1,658
Location
Prussia
I disklike the party systems. I have played both NWNs and it wasn`t necessary to put any points in picklocking or stealing, because your partymember(s) already had enough skills to open any chest or door. If you would pick the thief class than you would have two thiefs in your team, but only one is necessary to picklock some wooden boxes. So one thief becomes useless except for fighting the creatures. But i think thats just bad design. I can`t think of any other reason... really. You should also be able to play alone without having forced NPCs following you just to lead you to the next boring story cutscenes.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Amon Gesoto said:
Vaarna_Aarne said:
Amon Gesoto said:
Jasede said:
I think everyone needs to chill out a little and hope that there'll be a nice balance between well-written NPCs (and I don't care if they're able to join or not) and your self-created party. Obsidian has shown they can do good stuff half the time, so let's see what becomes of this.

I don't think "hope" has a place in the Codex lexicon.
Oh, it's there. It's synonymous with Van Buren.

Non-existent in other words?
Exactly.
 

Volrath

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
4,295
Good interview imo even if I associate tabletop gaming with turn based combat.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Jasede said:
What are you even talking about? Finally they make a real, old-school, Codex-proof RPG with a party you make yourself and now you guys still complain! Now you suddenly -want- Bioware-style companions with a story and a romance.
It isn't turn-based and most Codexers would probably prefer good 2d graphics (e.g. ToEE) to the clunkiness of NWN2 3d. So "real, old-school, Codex-proof RPG" is probably a "little" optimistic.

And just because one or two guys complain doesn't mean that "the codex" opinion changed. There never was a codex opinion and there have always been people who prefer one style or another.
You should know this by now.
I like companions if they are done right and I am not required to suck up to them to unlock stupid metagame features. I also like building my own party for power-gaming and diversity.
 

Hümmelgümpf

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
2,949
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
One of the ways we are doing this is with our new Party Conversation system, crafted by another NWN2 veteran, Anthony Davis.

Party Conversations offer different player responses and reactivity based on the numerous choices players make when creating and levelling-up their party members. This includes race, class, alignment, gender, deity, attributes and more.
Hello, Mr. Davis? Could you explain this in a little more detail?
 

-Pavlos-

Novice
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
72
Shannow said:
Is there something wrong with my eyes or are those screenshots from NWN1?
I'm sure it made sense to the editor : /.

As players explore Samarach and the Sword Coast and interact with its many fascinating characters, the player will reap the benefits, and drawbacks, of their choices
Choices having a negative effect on the progression of a character? :hug:
 

serch

Magister
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
1,391
Location
Behind mistary, in front of conspirancy
Lestat said:
One of the ways we are doing this is with our new Party Conversation system, crafted by another NWN2 veteran, Anthony Davis.

Party Conversations offer different player responses and reactivity based on the numerous choices players make when creating and levelling-up their party members. This includes race, class, alignment, gender, deity, attributes and more.
Hello, Mr. Davis? Can you explain this in a little more detail?

Davis was a Panzer commander, so I expect maximum collar grabbing interaction this time, putting Boware's Mass Effect to shame.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
serch said:
Lestat said:
One of the ways we are doing this is with our new Party Conversation system, crafted by another NWN2 veteran, Anthony Davis.

Party Conversations offer different player responses and reactivity based on the numerous choices players make when creating and levelling-up their party members. This includes race, class, alignment, gender, deity, attributes and more.
Hello, Mr. Davis? Can you explain this in a little more detail?

Davis was a Panzer commander, so I expect maximum collar grabbing interaction this time, putting Boware's Mass Effect to shame.
MAXIMUM collar-grabbing? Damn, it's an obsession for Obsidian to outdo Bioware.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
What's wrong with that interviewer? So condescending and negative; "will this be so bad as in the original NWN2, will interior areas suck again, isn't it bad to go back to IWD and BG style instead of going forward..?" What the hell?
On the other hand when they did an interview regarding biowhore's DA it was all roses and hearts; "Oh, yeah: gritty, dragons - we love it, we love it we looove it." Pathetic.

Starting at level 3.. ah, not that bad. Will we at least have a "tutorial" which will level us up from lvl 1 to 3 or will 3000 xp drop magically from the sky as soon as I load the game? Please, include such a "tutorial" for those of us who like to start at level 1.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Starwars said:
New interview with the lead of SoZ: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/ar ... ?id=191562

Starts at level 3 and will go until about level 15. Though they have said elsewhere that we may go into epic depending on how much exploring we do.

I just wish those level 3 - level 15 will go at BG1 speed rather than at NWN1 speed where it's basically a... level grinding?

Shannow said:
Is there something wrong with my eyes or are those screenshots from NWN1?

from NWN2 OC
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
What about epic loot? Epic piles of loot ala NWN 2 OC and MotB were not really liked by anyone. It's more fun to work your way to a fancy new sword instead of changing it after every battle for an inconsequential increase in damage.

That said, I hope we will mostly be wielding +1 items.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
Dark Individual said:
What about epic loot? Epic piles of loot ala NWN 2 OC and MotB were not really liked by anyone. It's more fun to work your way to a fancy new sword instead of changing it after every battle for an inconsequential increase in damage.

That said, I hope we will mostly be wielding +1 items.

Agreed. Finding really good items should be really really difficult.
And yes, they've said it'll indeed be a low-magic (specifically low-magic loot) adventure in a topic on the NWN2 boards.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Lestat said:
One of the ways we are doing this is with our new Party Conversation system, crafted by another NWN2 veteran, Anthony Davis.

Party Conversations offer different player responses and reactivity based on the numerous choices players make when creating and levelling-up their party members. This includes race, class, alignment, gender, deity, attributes and more.
Hello, Mr. Davis? Could you explain this in a little more detail?

I've been busy so I didn't have time to check this thread.

I am still implementing and tuning the Party Conversation System so all of this is subject to change depending on how the gameplay works or technical limitation we encounter.

Here is the example though.

Here is my party:

When I start the game, I select (or create) what the Aurora/Electron engine refers to as the Player Created Character. This operates exactly like NWN1, NWN2, and NX1.

Player Created Character is NOT functionally the same thing as the Party Leader, though they are frequently the same creature.

I select Grubs, my half-orc monk.

Once in NX2, we have access to the Party Creation Screen.

To complete my party, I select a cleric , a smarty pants mage, and a rogue to cover everything else.

So my party now looks like this:

Grubs the Monk (PCC and also currently the leader has a BLUFF of 5)
Oswyn the Cleric (has DIPLOMACY of 10)
Karak the Mage (has LORE of 10)
Reylene the Rogue (has BLUFF of 10)


I'm going to get a little bit more technical here, but it has to be done.

Every conversation node has a series or replies. Each reply has or can have conditional scripts that fire that determine if the reply node should appear. It worked this way for NWN1, NWN2, and NX1.

For example, if I put a conditional on a reply node that says APPRAISE > 5, that reply node will ONLY appear if the player character talking to the NPC has an APPRAISE skill greater than 5.

Conditionals can be ANY script out there as long as it returns a TRUE or a FALSE.

Got it?

Moving on...

Let's pretend we talk to some dude, and his conversation tree looks like this:

>Sup, what can I do for you guys?
1. Hey, nothing.
2. (If BLUFF less 10) Gimme your money. !Failure!
3. (If BLUFF greater than or equal 10) Gimme your money. !Success!
4. (If DIPLOMACY greater 5) We come in peace!
5. (If LORE greater 8) I have heard of you!

(The words between the !'s represent comments that would not be shown in game)

Whatever, you get the idea. Talking to this guy will bring up the new Party Conversation System.

The new Party Conversation System looks similar to the Quickchat Screen from NWN2, except for a series of tabs that allow you to switch between current party members.

In our case, it is Grubs, Oswyn, Karak, and Reylene. Grubs is currently the active/highlighted tab because he is the party leader.

Grubs has the following dialog options:
1. Hey, nothing.
2. (If BLUFF less 10) Gimme your money.!Failure!

If I click on Oswyn's tab, I am in effect allowing Oswyn to talk for the party. I will then see Oswyn's dialog options:

1. Hey, nothing.
4. (If DIPLOMACY greater 5) We come in peace!

Karak:
1. Hey, nothing.
5. (If LORE greater 8) I have heard of you!

And finally, Reylene:
1. Hey, nothing.
3. (If BLUFF greater than or equal 10) Gimme your money. !Success!


Flipping through the tabs will allow you to see what options each character might have if you chose to allow them to speak for the party.

Remember, my example is weak sauce compared to what the real designers do, afterall, I'm a programmer.
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Is there any way you could show your party member's relevant skill totals as part of the Party Conversation System? Because I can easily see myself forgetting who has the highest, say, diplomacy in my party, and I'd hate to fail a check because I chose the wrong party member to answer.

Other than that, it sound like a great idea.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Well, good, but hardly ground-breaking.

Hey Anthony, can you suggest giving charactes "personality soundsets" like in Wizardry 8? It's not even that simple. Let me explain:

In Wizardry 8 you create a party of 1-6 adventurers. You select a race, a class, a portrait, a name, and, here's the twist, a "personality" for each one. The "personality" is more than just a sound-set - it'll influence party-banter (certain personalities have quips they exchange, for example) and at key points your party-members will say some line to comment on what's happening, be it something as trivial as someone in the party dying or as moving as you getting plot item #3.

It's the only game I know that had this - and I'll tell you something, it -really- made your created party -so- much more memorable. But it's only an option if you have many different and good voice-actors and a sweet writers because it's a huge amount of work for a gain that might be comparatively subtle.

Just a suggestion!
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
@Anthony: actually this sounds interesting, pretty ok even. I just want to see how it will work in the game.
if only all rpg devs were willing to discuss their mechanics with actual players :bethesda:

btw - while you still have time - make exp grinding go slower, more BG1 way. or do anything that will make the game -longer-, but still entertaining.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom