BrainSquirmingLikeAToad
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hello world
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Development Info Fallout 3 may have God-awful music and combat
- Thread starter DarkUnderlord
- Start date
Joe Krow
Erudite
What the fuck does that mean exactly?
By "difficulty" do they mean ONLY a change in difficulty or do they also mean a change in type? In other words is the so called difficulty setting going to adjust what you actually come across (scaling) or just the relative strength of those items/enemies (difficulty).
Are they using the same glaringly transparent level scaling they used in Oblivion for Fallout 3? Even the fan club knew that was broken.
I'm stating to suspect that we will get more of the same with the player able to adjust the omnipresent scaling up or down slightly or allow the game to do it for them through "autoleveling." Either way, no fun, no challenge, no surprises.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong.
Seboss
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 947
Re: Fallout 3 may have God-awful music
I have the preview right here. It's 6 pages long so I won't do a full transcript but I could give you guys some more excerpts if you're interested.
EDIT: ok, I'll give you some anyways.
<blockquote>[right after the ability points allocation] Daddy comes back in the room, is very pleased by your agility [...] and cites an excerpt of the Apocalypse ("I am the Alpha and the Omega"), a passage of the Bible your former Mom used to like a lot, an element not so insignificant that should play an important role in the main quest.
Fade to black and you're now at your tenth birthday, ready to get your Pipboy3000, "the indispensable companion of the modern man". This scene introduces your first social interactions.
You'll go then from a little flirt with a girl your age through the confrontation with a little bully desiring to strip you from your birthday cake, to a surrealist discussion with a schizophrenic Mr Handy.
And there, I feel reassured. The dialogs and the argument with the dumbfuck in the making come right into the series spirit. During your conversation with the little scum, the game offers you ten different dialog options: immediate cowardly capitulation, insult leading to a brawl, lies, [...] spitting on the cake before offering it to him. The list is more than satisfying.</blockquote>
The author states that many dialog options have tags like [Lie], [Charm], [Intimidation], [Science] and so one. Very Biowary.
<blockquote>A little later, you'll eventually receive your first AirSoft Gun, the famous RedRyder that allows you to familiarize with the combat system, then you choose your skills on the benches of the Vault's school.
Teenage hood will also be the occasion to solve a number of optional quests that influence the perception the other vault dwellers might have of you, as well as your karma and your personality. Undoubtedly, these first minutes make me comfortably euphoric.
[...]
While I was expecting an outright treason of the Fallout setting, more because of ineptitude than vice, I have the feeling the game is spot on. The ambiance, scenery and lighting of the Vault seem perfectly faithful to the series, with just the right dose of rust to enhance claustrophobia.
[...]
In opposition to Oblivion and Morrowind that just kicked you into the game without bonds of any sort, this time Bethesda clearly states its will to make you a part of a community, to create relationships right from the beginning. [...] What is the better way to make the player feel lost in the irradiated desert and make him realize the importance of his mission than create a genuine bond to his home just before kicking me out.</blockquote>
Well, kicking him out right away worked pretty well in FO1 if you ask me.
About the SPECIAL system:
<blockquote>First satisfaction, the SPECIAL system have really been kept, no facade without substance. Every actions in the game, from the combat to bluff attempts through gambling are resolved by dice rolls against your skills and abilities. However, we can observe a whole lot of discrepancies, starting with this confession painfully extracted from the demonstrator: atypical character builds, like very low intelligence characters, won't have as many options as in the previous games. Some dialogs are heavily influenced by your IQ, however you can forget about your project of roaming the wastelands with a complete moron barely able to string two syllables together . What's more shocking for hardcore integrists like me, you can forget about beating the game as a cowardly pacifist weasel: most combats will be inevitable especially during travels and desert and ruins exploration.</blockquote>
The wastelands are 65% the size of Cyrodiil, blah blah, the game is supposed to have a lot of landmarks like collapsed buildings, junkyards, diners, motels and baseball fields. These places are inhabited by people influenced by the nature of the location. Baseball fields should have descendants of the Baseball Furries from the movie Warriors, stuff like that.
The author hopes these places won't feel as generic as the bandit/goblin/wraith tombs of Oblivion , but he seems confident about that.
The game will have a significant dose of level scaling for the main quest. There are three difficuly levels (as you already know), but that seems a bit cheap.
Stimpacks won't have any side-effects anymore. There are just the regular "Cure Light" potions now.
To this point, the author was pretty confident about the quality of the game. Now there's the negative part:
<blockquote>Now here's the point where things get messy. We're going to get onto the thorny problem of the combat. [...] We'll note that the developers repeated ad nauseam that the efficiency of your shots depend on your statistics and that the FPS skills of the player don't have any importance, and that all shots fired in real-time mode will be automatically aimed to the torso. [Here goes a lengthy description of the VATS system]
The idea seems to stand theoretically, but in facts I'm far from convinced. Firstly, during the presentation, either he was wearing a Power Armor and holding a Gatling gun and fighting hordes of super mutants armed with heavy machine guns, bakookas and supersledges or fighting ghouls with a 9mm and wearing just a leather armor, the demonstrator was just standing there, shooting long bursts without using any kind of tactics.
Besides, aimed shots, possible even with a minigun, looked far less effective to me than just "run right next to the baddy and empty my magazine in one burst".</blockquote>
Ouch. He also says that "bullet time" death animations are just as pleasant as stuffing rusty nails in your urethra after the third one. Or something like this.
<blockquote>The battle locations that were presented seemed a little dull. First was the no man's land surrounding the super mutants base in Washington DC. Like during WWI, it had lots of trenches where big green monsters ran into before attacking in melee or opening fire from not-so-far. Regularly, a monster set on high grounds would attack you with a rocket launcher. This scene painfully reminds me of some run-of-the-mill FPS.
[...]
Regarding monster design, I'm afraid they are completely off the mark. Forget about quirky, clumsy supermutants or weird ghouls with tree branches sticking out their skulls. All you'll get is overmuscular, overarmed orcs and undeads Oblivion style. But that was expected.</blockquote>
Another expected shortcoming is the animation quality. The author confirms that they are as stiff and unnatural as ever.
He also added that he ate asparagus.DarkUnderlord said:
I have the preview right here. It's 6 pages long so I won't do a full transcript but I could give you guys some more excerpts if you're interested.
EDIT: ok, I'll give you some anyways.
<blockquote>[right after the ability points allocation] Daddy comes back in the room, is very pleased by your agility [...] and cites an excerpt of the Apocalypse ("I am the Alpha and the Omega"), a passage of the Bible your former Mom used to like a lot, an element not so insignificant that should play an important role in the main quest.
Fade to black and you're now at your tenth birthday, ready to get your Pipboy3000, "the indispensable companion of the modern man". This scene introduces your first social interactions.
You'll go then from a little flirt with a girl your age through the confrontation with a little bully desiring to strip you from your birthday cake, to a surrealist discussion with a schizophrenic Mr Handy.
And there, I feel reassured. The dialogs and the argument with the dumbfuck in the making come right into the series spirit. During your conversation with the little scum, the game offers you ten different dialog options: immediate cowardly capitulation, insult leading to a brawl, lies, [...] spitting on the cake before offering it to him. The list is more than satisfying.</blockquote>
The author states that many dialog options have tags like [Lie], [Charm], [Intimidation], [Science] and so one. Very Biowary.
<blockquote>A little later, you'll eventually receive your first AirSoft Gun, the famous RedRyder that allows you to familiarize with the combat system, then you choose your skills on the benches of the Vault's school.
Teenage hood will also be the occasion to solve a number of optional quests that influence the perception the other vault dwellers might have of you, as well as your karma and your personality. Undoubtedly, these first minutes make me comfortably euphoric.
[...]
While I was expecting an outright treason of the Fallout setting, more because of ineptitude than vice, I have the feeling the game is spot on. The ambiance, scenery and lighting of the Vault seem perfectly faithful to the series, with just the right dose of rust to enhance claustrophobia.
[...]
In opposition to Oblivion and Morrowind that just kicked you into the game without bonds of any sort, this time Bethesda clearly states its will to make you a part of a community, to create relationships right from the beginning. [...] What is the better way to make the player feel lost in the irradiated desert and make him realize the importance of his mission than create a genuine bond to his home just before kicking me out.</blockquote>
Well, kicking him out right away worked pretty well in FO1 if you ask me.
About the SPECIAL system:
<blockquote>First satisfaction, the SPECIAL system have really been kept, no facade without substance. Every actions in the game, from the combat to bluff attempts through gambling are resolved by dice rolls against your skills and abilities. However, we can observe a whole lot of discrepancies, starting with this confession painfully extracted from the demonstrator: atypical character builds, like very low intelligence characters, won't have as many options as in the previous games. Some dialogs are heavily influenced by your IQ, however you can forget about your project of roaming the wastelands with a complete moron barely able to string two syllables together . What's more shocking for hardcore integrists like me, you can forget about beating the game as a cowardly pacifist weasel: most combats will be inevitable especially during travels and desert and ruins exploration.</blockquote>
The wastelands are 65% the size of Cyrodiil, blah blah, the game is supposed to have a lot of landmarks like collapsed buildings, junkyards, diners, motels and baseball fields. These places are inhabited by people influenced by the nature of the location. Baseball fields should have descendants of the Baseball Furries from the movie Warriors, stuff like that.
The author hopes these places won't feel as generic as the bandit/goblin/wraith tombs of Oblivion , but he seems confident about that.
The game will have a significant dose of level scaling for the main quest. There are three difficuly levels (as you already know), but that seems a bit cheap.
Stimpacks won't have any side-effects anymore. There are just the regular "Cure Light" potions now.
To this point, the author was pretty confident about the quality of the game. Now there's the negative part:
<blockquote>Now here's the point where things get messy. We're going to get onto the thorny problem of the combat. [...] We'll note that the developers repeated ad nauseam that the efficiency of your shots depend on your statistics and that the FPS skills of the player don't have any importance, and that all shots fired in real-time mode will be automatically aimed to the torso. [Here goes a lengthy description of the VATS system]
The idea seems to stand theoretically, but in facts I'm far from convinced. Firstly, during the presentation, either he was wearing a Power Armor and holding a Gatling gun and fighting hordes of super mutants armed with heavy machine guns, bakookas and supersledges or fighting ghouls with a 9mm and wearing just a leather armor, the demonstrator was just standing there, shooting long bursts without using any kind of tactics.
Besides, aimed shots, possible even with a minigun, looked far less effective to me than just "run right next to the baddy and empty my magazine in one burst".</blockquote>
Ouch. He also says that "bullet time" death animations are just as pleasant as stuffing rusty nails in your urethra after the third one. Or something like this.
<blockquote>The battle locations that were presented seemed a little dull. First was the no man's land surrounding the super mutants base in Washington DC. Like during WWI, it had lots of trenches where big green monsters ran into before attacking in melee or opening fire from not-so-far. Regularly, a monster set on high grounds would attack you with a rocket launcher. This scene painfully reminds me of some run-of-the-mill FPS.
[...]
Regarding monster design, I'm afraid they are completely off the mark. Forget about quirky, clumsy supermutants or weird ghouls with tree branches sticking out their skulls. All you'll get is overmuscular, overarmed orcs and undeads Oblivion style. But that was expected.</blockquote>
Another expected shortcoming is the animation quality. The author confirms that they are as stiff and unnatural as ever.
Briosafreak
Augur
Thanks man, I'll make a blog post about this tomorrow.
Edward_R_Murrow
Arcane
Briosafreak said:
I'm not the Fallout authority, but I honestly can't understand how these are cool at all, at least in the context of Fallout. Sure...they definitely sound 50s-ish, but 50s-ish and Fallout are not mutually coincidental when it comes to the setting. The weapons Bethesda have presented seem more like campy, pulpy sci-fi weapons from 50s comic books as opposed to Fallout's "realistic sci fi" weapons with cutesy 50s ACME labellings. I can't help but feel that they don't fit at all, and are serving the "gimmick gun" role that shows up in every FPS just to show off the physics and graphics.
And Bethesda not picking up Mark Morgan is pretty ridiculous. I can find some of the arguments about them not hiring original Fallout developers at least plausible to a slight degree, but Mark Morgan not being picked up is just plain dumb. It would have been a great first PR move and have demonstrated they actually know something about Fallout and give a shit.
Seboss
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 947
No problem. My limited English skills may make this preview sound a bit retarded though.
All in all, the previewer seemed pretty pleased by the introduction of the game and he seems confident about the overall quality of the writing and quests (despite he states that Pete Hines went through great efforts to show as little as possible). However, the combat really seems to suck *badly* according to this preview. Static boring combat KOTOR-style but worse (see the "run to the monster and unload magazine in its chest" comment).
Note that the demonstrator used all kind of cheats during the combat scenes, as usual, and the game still have 4-5 month of development time before release. But from the look of it, combat seems irremediably flawed.
A question: do we know for sure who the composer for Fallout 3 is? I keep reading that's Jeremy Soule (and from the website teaser, it might well be as such), but is there any confirmation about this?
All in all, the previewer seemed pretty pleased by the introduction of the game and he seems confident about the overall quality of the writing and quests (despite he states that Pete Hines went through great efforts to show as little as possible). However, the combat really seems to suck *badly* according to this preview. Static boring combat KOTOR-style but worse (see the "run to the monster and unload magazine in its chest" comment).
Note that the demonstrator used all kind of cheats during the combat scenes, as usual, and the game still have 4-5 month of development time before release. But from the look of it, combat seems irremediably flawed.
A question: do we know for sure who the composer for Fallout 3 is? I keep reading that's Jeremy Soule (and from the website teaser, it might well be as such), but is there any confirmation about this?
Briosafreak
Augur
Anyway the new weapons fit nicely in the same spirit of these ones.
Check Amazing Science pulps, the 50's Flash Gordon reruns of the 30's series, what the original Fallout creators talked about the Science! weapons.
This is appropriate to the setting and fun, don't see what's the problem. Quite the opposite actually. If things like these don't show up more often then it will be a Mad Max/Oblivion thing for sure, those weapons are the more falloutish stuff we've heard so far.
aries202
Erudite
Hey, even 5 dialogue options is great step up from Oblivion's generic dialogues...
It's been a while since I played the Fallout game(s) so I can't really remember the guns & rifles, but I do remember that great setting and the TB combat.
I do remember that the guns & rifles sort of made sense in the setting, though. I mean you had a chinese rifle, the power armor and the gattling gun etc. And of course some other guns & rifles labeled with a lot of atomic stuff (or am I making things up here?)
The guns & rifles Bethesda have invented? for Fallout 3 seems to more fitting i the Ratchet and Clank setting. I haven't played the game, but isn't there an ice gun or a suck-o-tron gun in these games? I mean, as I understand the Ratched & Clank franchise does feature some very weird looking futuristic weapons.
Personally, I don't like that stimpacks don't have any side-effects at all. They are drugs afterall. If you took to many of these, somwthing could happen with you. Just having them being light cure potions is way too much close to Obliovion's take on this, I feel.
At keast the French person who saw the preview of Fallout 3 has the same doubts about it than we have. I don't think it will work. Period. Or if it does, it will be just sort of a grudgingly admitting a tribute to Fallout fans. The game seems like it is being made with First Person Perspective combat in mind...
It's been a while since I played the Fallout game(s) so I can't really remember the guns & rifles, but I do remember that great setting and the TB combat.
I do remember that the guns & rifles sort of made sense in the setting, though. I mean you had a chinese rifle, the power armor and the gattling gun etc. And of course some other guns & rifles labeled with a lot of atomic stuff (or am I making things up here?)
The guns & rifles Bethesda have invented? for Fallout 3 seems to more fitting i the Ratchet and Clank setting. I haven't played the game, but isn't there an ice gun or a suck-o-tron gun in these games? I mean, as I understand the Ratched & Clank franchise does feature some very weird looking futuristic weapons.
Personally, I don't like that stimpacks don't have any side-effects at all. They are drugs afterall. If you took to many of these, somwthing could happen with you. Just having them being light cure potions is way too much close to Obliovion's take on this, I feel.
At keast the French person who saw the preview of Fallout 3 has the same doubts about it than we have. I don't think it will work. Period. Or if it does, it will be just sort of a grudgingly admitting a tribute to Fallout fans. The game seems like it is being made with First Person Perspective combat in mind...
Briosafreak
Augur
Not that one
Brother None
inXile Entertainment
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Messages
- 5,673
Honestly, I don't get the issue people have with the Cryolator/Mesmetron, they're pulp 50's. Maybe borderline, but that depends on how they're implemented. It's the flaming sword, nuke bazook launcher and rock-it-launcher that hold all the stupidity.
It's a tutorial dialogue.
The Walkin' Dude said:
It's a tutorial dialogue.
FrancoTAU
Cipher
For some reason I think most of the choices are cheesy defaults that apply to every NPC. Stock choices like Bye, Attack and what not.
The goofy new weapons really aren't that bad. The nuke gun and sword are infinitely worse.
Daddy's Little Girl is another small example of how Bethseda don't "get" the Fallout humor.
The goofy new weapons really aren't that bad. The nuke gun and sword are infinitely worse.
Daddy's Little Girl is another small example of how Bethseda don't "get" the Fallout humor.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2002
- Messages
- 28,357
Re: Fallout 3 may have God-awful music
\/\/00+ Oblivion with Guns has moron indicators!Seboss said:
Helton
Arcane
r u sirus?
JoeDirt
Scholar
The Walkin' Dude said:
Fat Dragon
Arbiter
I'm no chemist so I have no clue how this stuff works, but I'm pretty sure a person would die if they consumed liquid nitrogen. This wouldn't help a water problem.JoeDirt said:
Gnidrologist
CONDUCTOR
Re: Fallout 3 may have God-awful music
Silly weapons are silly, but that really isn't what would break the game. Mutch awaiting for some true dialogue screens. If dialogs really somehow resemble the style and ritchness of the street-smart conversations of the originals, like this french guy says, well... mkaay. But that would be too good to be true.
Would prefere the subtlety of the originals or Arcanum, but i still could live with WtM:B, which had the same ''moron indicators'' in form of a tint.DarkUnderlord said:
Silly weapons are silly, but that really isn't what would break the game. Mutch awaiting for some true dialogue screens. If dialogs really somehow resemble the style and ritchness of the street-smart conversations of the originals, like this french guy says, well... mkaay. But that would be too good to be true.
roshan
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,432
Fallouts weapons made sense. Gauss, lasers, plasma are all plausible technologies for weaponry.
Cryolaters and Mesmetrons on the other hand are downright stupid. Just because something comes from 50s sci fi doesnt automatically make it compatible with Fallout.
Cryolaters and Mesmetrons on the other hand are downright stupid. Just because something comes from 50s sci fi doesnt automatically make it compatible with Fallout.
Gnidrologist
CONDUCTOR
I don't think weapons and other details in Fallout were chosen by their scientific plausibility. Just replay the game if you have any doubts. 
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