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Two whole entire questions...

Wired_Irony

Novice
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
28
...in nice numbered fashion.

1. Can you explain a little about how skill checks within dialogue works? Is it rolled or is your skill checked against a set number?

2. Outside of locations, it is a map, right? Is there random encounters and all that fun stuff?
 
Vault Dweller

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Wired_Irony said:
1. Can you explain a little about how skill checks within dialogue works? Is it rolled or is your skill checked against a set number?
Click to expand...
Set numbers, no rolling. Two checks.

The first check is to see if you are "skilled" enough to come up with a good line. That's where the line is displayed as one of the available dialogue options. The second check is to compare your skill vs that of your "opponent".

Here is a short sequence in a "save a hostage" quest.

PC: Lord Antidas will certainly appreciate your kindness, but 1,000 coins is too much.
Raider: Who can put a price on the life of a kin?
PC: That depends on a kin, doesn't it? This particular kin is hardly worth more then 200 coins.
Raider: I paid more for my dog. 900 coins, and only as a token of my respect.
PC: A good dog is hard to find. Useless relatives are not. 300 coins is a good price for one.
Raider: If he's so useless, why pay anything at all? 800 coins
PC: What can I say? Lord Antidas is a kind man. 400 coins.
Raider: Kind enough to pay 500 coins?
PC: That should be acceptable, I'll be back with the money

So, for example, the min skill to start the conversation is 20 (trading). However, the raider will refuse to consider the "discount" if your skill is less than 25, and it takes 40 points in trading to actually get him to agree to take only 500. Then you go to Antidas and convince him to pay 1,500 and pocket the difference.

2. Outside of locations, it is a map, right? Is there random encounters and all that fun stuff?
Click to expand...
Yes.

@ Elhoim: more like Fallout at this point (I'm considering switching)
 

Dementia Praecox

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
1,269
Location
The Von Braun, Deck 5
Vault Dweller said:
@ Elhoim: more like Fallout at this point (I'm considering switching)
Click to expand...
Does that mean you have randomized "wilderness"-locations and random encounters? If so how many variations(of both) will there be? And if that's the case, does any skill govern the likelihood and outcome of such encounters (i.e. outdoorsman in Fallout) ?
 
Vault Dweller

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
28,035
Claw said:
Vault Dweller said:
@ Elhoim: more like Fallout at this point (I'm considering switching)
Click to expand...
Switching to what? Baldur's Gate? I can't say I liked the style of BG's worldmap very much.
Click to expand...
Well, I think that the Fallout "open exploration" style requires a strong travelling system, which we don't have. Realms of Arkania had a great travelling/camping system, btw.

My reasons for switching are of the role-playing nature. The player can easily send his character travelling all over the map if the time is meaningless, supplies are unlimited, and no terrain is unpassable. I prefer adding locations to the map once your character learns where they are from people, maps, scrolls, etc. That way you still have the non-linearity, but your ability to travel anywhere depends on your character, not you.

Dementia said:
Does that mean you have randomized "wilderness"-locations and random encounters? If so how many variations(of both) will there be? And if that's the case, does any skill govern the likelihood and outcome of such encounters (i.e. outdoorsman in Fallout) ?
Click to expand...
Each major location has a small pool of random encounters fitting the location. The random encounters will be triggered when you are approaching or leaving a major location. No skills, just dumb luck (or lack thereof).
 
Nedrah

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Vault Dweller said:
I prefer adding locations to the map once your character learns where they are from people, maps, scrolls, etc.
Click to expand...

Yep, I quite like that approach - it can be pretty rewarding to learn about new locations this way - moreso than stumbling upon them by chance.
 
MacBone

MacBone

Scholar
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
554
Location
Brutopia
Vault Dweller said:
I prefer adding locations to the map once your character learns where they are from people, maps, scrolls, etc.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, that makes sense when it comes to hidden cities, secret passes, and things of that nature, but if characters comes anywhere near a town, even a rundown one, they should be able to see it or figure out that it's there. Sometimes stumbling over ruins or some long-forgotten monument makes sense from a role-playing perspective, but if you don't have the system to allow characters to move around à la Arcanum or Fallout, I guess you'll have to leave that kind of thing out.

Vault Dweller said:
My reasons for switching are of the role-playing nature. The player can easily send his character travelling all over the map if the time is meaningless, supplies are unlimited, and no terrain is unpassable.
Click to expand...
I agree. It seems idiotic to have some threat on the horizon that waits for you to come to it before the baddie does anything. Will AoD have consequences for not addressing this? Any kind of timer for events? I take it you're not including things like rations in AoD. Any penalties for not eating every now or then or not sleeping at an inn? Will AoD have no impassable/strenuous terrain, like rivers, mountains, and deserts?
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Without a travel system, I agree with your logic on this change. I wonder, tho, will travel still take time? What I'd hate to see is the arbitrary time system used in NWN2, in which the game basically tracks the passage of time in your travels - unless it doesn't (for some plot reason - e.g., you're forced to arrive at the cemetery after dark, no ifs ands or buts). And I'd also hate to see no passage of time at all. Basically, even if characters are travelling only between known locations and aren't free to explore, travel should still feel meaningful.
 
Elhoim

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
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Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,878
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
suibhne said:
Without a travel system, I agree with your logic on this change. I wonder, tho, will travel still take time? What I'd hate to see is the arbitrary time system used in NWN2, in which the game basically tracks the passage of time in your travels - unless it doesn't (for some plot reason - e.g., you're forced to arrive at the cemetery after dark, no ifs ands or buts). And I'd also hate to see no passage of time at all. Basically, even if characters are travelling only between known locations and aren't free to explore, travel should still feel meaningful.
Click to expand...
I second suibhne´s post. The part about the lack of a travel system and also his concern about the passage of time.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
MacBone said:
Sometimes stumbling over ruins or some long-forgotten monument makes sense from a role-playing perspective, but if you don't have the system to allow characters to move around à la Arcanum or Fallout, I guess you'll have to leave that kind of thing out.
Click to expand...
Sure, but the problem for a game that sets out to have good replay value (as AoD does) is that players can be tempted to 'stumble' over locations which they know are present, but their character should not be aware of.

Compare a first playthrough of Fallout to a second.
In the first, time is a real factor. Finding important locations adds to the tension, since the player doesn't know exactly where they are, how long they'll take to find, or how long he can afford to spend. [in fact the time-limit is usually fairly simple to fulfill - but the player doesn't know this]
In the second, there's no tension from the time limit, since the player knows he can find all the necessary locations simply by stumbling on them. However, if he couldn't stumble on them, he'd still know where to go to find the links, since usually this doesn't depend on character setup / previous choice.

Hopefully (??) in AoD, many of the links to be followed do depend on character setup / choice. In this case, disallowing the stumbling, forces the player to find different (hopefully) means to overcome any challenge involved in finding places. Perhaps there's no time limit (??), but any tension/challenge there was in a first playthrough would remain, so long as character setup / choice moves things in sufficiently different directions.

In a non-linear game where there's any challenge in finding places, I think preventing stumbling is a good idea. (or at least the lesser of two evils)
 
Azael

Azael

Magister
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
4,405
Location
Multikult Central South
Wasteland 2
How will this work in practice though? Will the starting town be the one place you can visit before you trigger new areas, or do your character at least know something of the surrounding areas? Basically, do you intend for the PC to be a local or an outsider? I can understand that you don't know the location of all areas in the game, considering the setting, but major settlements in your relative vicinity should be common knowledge (never made much sense that your character didn't know any locations in Arcanum, for example). As I understand it, this isn't a game focused on exploration and since there's no travelling system or time limit planned, a Fallout style map isn't really necessary.

EDIT: It would be interesting if your initial knowledge of the map depended on the skills and background you choose at character creation.

As for skill checks in dialogues, will there be varying degrees of success/failure depending on your skill level in some cases? For example, being able to negotiate the ransom to 750 if your Trade skill is at 30.
 
Vault Dweller

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Azael said:
How will this work in practice though? Will the starting town be the one place you can visit before you trigger new areas, or do your character at least know something of the surrounding areas?
Click to expand...
The only place.

Basically, do you intend for the PC to be a local or an outsider?
Click to expand...
A local, but without much knowledge of surrounding areas, which isn't unrealistic.

...never made much sense that your character didn't know any locations in Arcanum, for example
Click to expand...
The way I see it, there is a huge difference between knowing where a location is approximately and knowing how to get there. In games like Fallout and Arcanum travelling is never a challenging task for your character. In fact, it's the easiest action you can perform and it doesn't take any skills at all to travel, so the way I see when a location is added to your map it means that you have very detailed and clear instructions of how to get there.

As for skill checks in dialogues, will there be varying degrees of success/failure depending on your skill level in some cases? For example, being able to negotiate the ransom to 750 if your Trade skill is at 30.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are asking. If you look at the example above, if your skill is 25, you buy the prisoner for 900; if your skill is 30 you pay only 800 and so on.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
galsiah said:
Perhaps there's no time limit (??)
Click to expand...
I asked this a long time ago. The main storyline has no time limit but some of the side quests do.
 
Azael

Azael

Magister
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
4,405
Location
Multikult Central South
Wasteland 2
Vault Dweller said:
The way I see it, there is a huge difference between knowing where a location is approximately and knowing how to get there. In games like Fallout and Arcanum travelling is never a challenging task for your character. In fact, it's the easiest action you can perform and it doesn't take any skills at all to travel, so the way I see when a location is added to your map it means that you have very detailed and clear instructions of how to get there.
Click to expand...

I can buy that, as long as it's implied that there's some real distance between the location. Not knowing how to get to New Jersey when you've lived your entire life in New York would be a bit strange (not wanting to go to Jersey is a different matter).

Not sure what you are asking. If you look at the example above, if your skill is 25, you buy the prisoner for 900; if your skill is 30 you pay only 800 and so on.
Click to expand...

Basically, you answered my question already. It was just a bit unclear to me if there were more than two outcomes to the proposed scenario. So basically you could end up paying anywhere from 1100 to 500, assuming you want to pay a ransom in the first place, depending on your skill level? Could you also end up having to pay a higher figure due to failure?
 
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