Alchemy screen

Vault Dweller · Jan 22, 2007

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2413 ... een2gz.jpg

What do you all think?

Edit: Disclaimer: Work in progress. The items are already filtered when the screen is opened, so you don't see useless stuff.

One Wolf · Jan 22, 2007

looks good to me. is alchemy limited to one ingredient, or can you combine multiple ingredients?

Vault Dweller · Jan 22, 2007

One ingredient. In some cases you may learn additional techniques improving your homemade brews. For example, you can figure out how to make weak poison on your own once your alchemy skill hits 25. However, potency is a technique; it needs to be taught or found (exploring old labs helps).

One Wolf · Jan 22, 2007

potency is a technique; it needs to be taught or found

hmm interesting.

One ingredient.

once a brew has been made, can it be altered with additional ingredients?

Vault Dweller · Jan 22, 2007

No. The alchemy system is very simple. However, if many people feel it should be improved, let's discuss it.

Btw, I don't recall if the trading screen has been posted, so here is one, just in case. Disregard the store's name, we use different names in the game ("Blunt Axe", etc).

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6342 ... een6jl.jpg

suibhne · Jan 22, 2007

Since I see to be the grammar nazi around here, I'll note that you use a split infinitive in your text: "You get your alchemy kit out". I have no problems with split infinitives if they have a goal (like style), but I don't see that as any better than "You get out your alchemy kit" - and the latter is correct and feels a little less clunky to me.

My only other comment is that the plant icon fades into the background a bit too much. Otherwise I like the screen. :wink:

One Wolf · Jan 22, 2007

well, a simple system could work fine.

on the other hand, i know you are trying to flesh out several skills that are often worthless in other games. i haven't played it in forever, but morrowind seemed to have a pretty good idea behind alchemy (you are likely acquainted with it). it allowed multiple ingredients whose combinations (in terms of greater numbers of ingredients) became known with higher skill ranks. i also remember alchemy being worthless in MW, but that's another story.

by the way, when trading, do you select multiple items in your inventory and then click "sell" (ala BG2), and then do your buying as a seperate action? or can you trade like FO?

"You get out your alchemy kit" is better.

this is true.

Stalagmite · Jan 22, 2007

The plant doesn't stand out enough because of the background. I think the plants should stand out more to make alchemy more appealing. Resident Evil had this problem with herbs too (not being able to tell by looking at the plant itself) but RE is a survival horror, not an RPG.

MacBone · Jan 22, 2007

The trade screen's pretty enough, but what you're buying doesn't seem immediately apparent. Perhaps you could outline the item to be bought or sold in addition to placing that little gap next to it. Or is that gap occupying the space to the left of the armor by chance? Is the 8500 gold your character's gold or how much gold that large golden ring will fetch?

The perspective seems off a bit, too. Why would the fourth item down on the right, the golden mirror/swiss army knife be so much larger than the Imperial guard armor? I can understand why each icon should roughly occupy the same area, but the proportions seem odd.

Edit: Split infinitive, eh? G"et out" is a verb phrase, but it's no infinitive. An infinitive is to + a verb, like "to get out." And you call yourself a grammar nazi, suibhne. Shame, shame, shame.

somnium · Jan 22, 2007

On The interface, it look really nice, much better then i expected . But for me it misses the mark on a important function, Having it feel and look like you are doing alchemy.
Maybe adding some apparatuses like distilling equipment would do the trick.
On the greenstuf, does it change for different brews or does it stay the same ? Because it has an typically fantasy poison feeling...

i also had a few questions about alchemy:

How many alchemy ingredients are there ?

Is there a (skill) requirement for using some ingredients ?

Can you make different potions out of one ingredient, for example using a plant(part) normaly used for poison to brew an antidote ?

Fez · Jan 22, 2007

I like the layout, but in the first shot there are a touch too many textures (or at least obvious ones) for my liking. It looks like a garden centre's paving samples range. Maybe I'm just being picky but I would like to see the variations as they appear (as this is WIP). I like the trading screen one better. The chosen fonts are clear and easy to read while still looking pleasant.

Is there a separate window or table at some point to show or drag and drop the items you wish to include in the trade along with whatever gold you have or do tags or marks appear on items that you select?

Good to hear item filtering is in too.

I like the idea of the player being able to improve items, maybe more than once too would be good. Weak poison + item ---> Strong poison + item ---> Stronger poison or Blunt sword + sharpening ---> Sharp sword + poisoned ---> Sharp sword (poisoned).

Claw · Jan 22, 2007

The X ought to have the same distance from both sides of the corner.

The items in the alchemy slots look slighty off-center, too.
Other than that, I'm perfectly happy with it.

What about the green glow along the lines between ingredient and alchemy item though, will that always be there or will it change colour depending on what you're brewing?

caliban · Jan 22, 2007

Looks cool enough.

I think one ingredient per item is a bit too simple. On the other hand, Morrowind's alchemy was needlessly complicated, as no one really needs potions with multiple somewhat random effects.

I think two ingredients per one created thingie (a'la Arcanum's schematics) is the optimum, as it offers many possibilities (and it's always cool to find out multiple combinations of items, instead of just 1 item -> 1 potion), while still being simple.

Gambler · Jan 22, 2007

Weak poison + item ---> Strong poison + item ---> Stronger poison or Blunt sword + sharpening ---> Sharp sword + poisoned ---> Sharp sword (poisoned).

Yeah, that would be interesting. Plus, this way it would be possible to implement alchemy chaining.
leaves -> poison
poison + other leaves -> cure
Etc. But I have no idea whether it is needed in the game. In general, I like when characters can combine items, because it is a kind of action that is not entirely obvious or predictable.

MountainWest · Jan 22, 2007

@Elohim: Looks great! I was a bit sceptical to your work at first, but you've improved far beyond my expectations. Now you just have to do a Widescreen-edition to get the second half of the second thumb up...

Elhoim · Jan 22, 2007

Thanks for the comments, guys! :D

Since I see to be the grammar nazi around here, I'll note that you use a split infinitive in your text: "You get your alchemy kit out". I have no problems with split infinitives if they have a goal (like style), but I don't see that as any better than "You get out your alchemy kit" - and the latter is correct and feels a little less clunky to me.

That was of my doing. ThatÂ´s not how itÂ´s gonna appear ingame, I just added it to replace the crafting message.

About the glass and bottles approach, we tried it and didnÂ´t work. This design is more in tone with the one of the crafting screen (weÂ´ll post it soon).

The green goo wonÂ´t change with the items, but perhaps it can be scripted to do so. ThatÂ´s out of my field

Remember that this one and the trade screen are prototypes made in PS. Some things will change when they are ported in game, especially item selection and the look of the text.

Vault Dweller · Jan 22, 2007

Fez said:
I like the layout, but in the first shot there are a touch too many textures (or at least obvious ones) for my liking. It looks like a garden centre's paving samples range. Maybe I'm just being picky but I would like to see the variations as they appear (as this is WIP). I like the trading screen one better. The chosen fonts are clear and easy to read while still looking pleasant.

Work in progress.

I like the idea of the player being able to improve items, maybe more than once too would be good. Weak poison + item ---> Strong poison + item ---> Stronger poison or Blunt sword + sharpening ---> Sharp sword + poisoned ---> Sharp sword (poisoned).

That's exactly how it works. The best items are crafted, not found or bought.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5918/crafting1he.jpg (old screen)

Claw · Jan 22, 2007

The inventory screen looks good, but I'm uncertain about its functionality.

I assume the left is the shop inventory, and the right the player's.

Does it need seperate "buy" and "sell" buttons? Why is there a weight indicator on the right but not the left? Don't we need to know the weight of items we'll buy? I'm sure a double fork wouldn't look too bad either.
I can't tell which item is selected (except by the description).

darks · Jan 22, 2007

MountainWest said:
Now you just have to do a Widescreen-edition to get the second half of the second thumb up...

Yay! I want to play AoD on my new 19" widescreen monitor in 1440x900 resolution. Will that be possible?

Btw: the screens look really good.. just wondering how they will look in full screen..

Elhoim · Jan 22, 2007

Yeah, there are a couple of things I would like to work out.

It works just like BG. You select items and then you click sell or buy. So the gold there would be the price of the selected items.

But I also want to add the total gold the player has and the total weight of his items.

So it would be something like this:

On the store side:

- Gold value of selected items.
- Weight value of selected items.

On the player side:

- Gold value of selected items. (weigth is unnecesary since the store doesnÂ´t have problems with it).
- Total weight for reference.
- Total gold for reference.

That screen was a quick WIP I did some time ago, and I didnÂ´t brought this issues to VD.

Fez · Jan 22, 2007

Good stuff! Can we upgrade weapons more than once or have two different upgrades on it (such as sharp and poisoned or balanced and blessed, etc.)?

I loved the item crafting in Arcanum.

Vault Dweller · Jan 22, 2007

You can upgrade your weapons as many times as you like and have as many different upgrades as you know. You can melt your weapon into ore and make a new one if your skills have improved.

Greatatlantic · Jan 22, 2007

Here are my comments...

About the Alchemy Screen... Like they layout (placing, borders, etc.). However, I think the backdrop for the items themselves seems a little to "busy". All those cracks and shades of grey sort of blend into the items themselves, this is especially apparent for the twig of leaves. I'm thinking a more "solid" background for the items themselves is more appropriate, maybe parchment? Would go along well with the idea that you're storing reagents.

About Alchemy in general... OK, this particular thing has frustrated the heck out of me in games past (like Arcanum or Morrowind). The biggest source of frustration is "item hunt". That is, not having easy access to all the ingredients you need to brew a potion. Especially the common potions, but it qualifies for rare stuff as well. Other concerns include overly complicated systems with so many requirements to brew stuff that it becomes easier just to play a character with high HP so he doesn't need to worry about that.

I'd recommend you keep things simple with Alchemy. No need for a ton of different formulas, and one ingredient recipies is a good start. Also, make ALL the ingredients "accessible". If there is a potion that turns a player into an immortal demi-god, I can understand why acquiring the ingredient(s) should be hard. However, Make sure all the alchemic merchants carry that ingredient, at some outrageously high price.

P.S., the potency think goes up with skill is a great idea, I think. I also like the idea that you'll enable more potions then higher your skill, which provides two incentives for improving alchemy.

Vault Dweller · Jan 23, 2007

Greatatlantic said:
P.S., the potency think goes up with skill is a great idea, I think. I also like the idea that you'll enable more potions then higher your skill, which provides two incentives for improving alchemy.

All alchemy/crafting stuff goes up with skills.

For example, at slvl 25 you can make a 5HP healing salve, at slvl 125 (max is 300) you can make a 25HP potion. At slvl 50 you can make poision that does 2 points of damage and lasts 2 turns, at slvl 175 the numbers are 7 and 4 respectively. At slvl 50 you can harden the edge of your blade to give you exta point of damage vs armor's DR, at slvl 200 that's 4 points of damage, etc.

Fez · Jan 23, 2007

Excellent. Will there be secret one-off blueprints to find in places or gain as special rewards? Will the enemies use these special or crafted weapons when appropriate (master thief who teaches you poisoning weapons has a poisoned weapon and so on)?

Alchemy screen

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