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Ranged combat in AoD

Azael

Magister
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Dec 6, 2002
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Multikult Central South
Wasteland 2
A couple of questions regarding ranged combat in the decadent game. Some of them probably asked and answered before, but I couldn't find them on a quick search through the forum threads.

Will characters focused on ranged combat be able to set up hostile encounters in a manner that benefits them, such as starting combat from a relatively "safe" distance or making sure that there are obstacles that hinder opponnets from reaching them easily? How about combat that is initiated via dialogue?

Will there be penalties for using ranged weapons at "arm's length" from an opponent and will there be damage and/chance to hit bonuses/penalties for point blank range and "maximum" range respectively? Will these be different from weapon to weapon? A crossbow seems like it would be a lot easier to use at close range than a sling or a javelin.

Can you incur attacks of opportunity for using raged weapons at too close range and will there be an equivalent of a 5' step in that case? Basically, will a ranged specialist be buggered royally up his tight buttocks if that nasty legionnaire closes up on him stabbing with his gladius like a German Arab? Forced to switch to a melee weapon?

How about lethality? Will you go the Gothic route and have ranged weapon be Insta-Kill, no mercy, no quarter weapons, or will they also knock out opponents allowing for a coup de grace should you so desire?

Since you've previously stated that you can throw virtually any melee, does that mean the reverse is true as well, that throwing weapons can be used for melee? Including rocks (you do have rocks as weapons, don't you?)?

Are there different kinds of ammo for bows and crossbows for special tasks (armor piercing, barbed, etc.)?

Finally, would you say that a Ranged speicalist is as viable a combat character as one who focuses on a melee weapon? Or maybe a healthy balance is the best medicine?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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28,024
Azael said:
Will characters focused on ranged combat be able to set up hostile encounters in a manner that benefits them, such as starting combat from a relatively "safe" distance or making sure that there are obstacles that hinder opponnets from reaching them easily? How about combat that is initiated via dialogue?
Yes to both. You can initiate combat yourself (i.e. you don't have to come closer to trigger it) by pressing the combat icon or by choosing a hostile dialogue option (it was on a couple of screens we posted)

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/images/8.jpg - option 2
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 16&start=0 option 2

Will there be penalties for using ranged weapons at "arm's length" from an opponent and will there be damage and/chance to hit bonuses/penalties for point blank range and "maximum" range respectively?
No "arm's length" or damage penalties. Accuracy slowly decreases with range. High perception reduces range penalties.

Will these be different from weapon to weapon? A crossbow seems like it would be a lot easier to use at close range than a sling or a javelin.
The differences at this point are damage, AP, range, accuracy (one handed crossbow is less accurate than a standard crossbow, for example) and weapon traits (i.e. knockdown for crossbows).

Can you incur attacks of opportunity for using raged weapons at too close range and will there be an equivalent of a 5' step in that case?
No to both. There are no attacks of opportunities. The only free attacks you may score are interrupt attacks (spears trait) and counter attacks after successful dodge/block.

Basically, will a ranged specialist be buggered royally up his tight buttocks if that nasty legionnaire closes up on him stabbing with his gladius like a German Arab? Forced to switch to a melee weapon?
No. Since there are no penalties, feel free to shoot him in the face with your crossbow and watch him fly. I designed crossbows as early equivalent of shotguns. Bows are "rifles".

How about lethality? Will you go the Gothic route and have ranged weapon be Insta-Kill, no mercy, no quarter weapons, or will they also knock out opponents allowing for a coup de grace should you so desire?
No. You will always knock your opponents out first and decide their fate later.

Since you've previously stated that you can throw virtually any melee, does that mean the reverse is true as well, that throwing weapons can be used for melee? Including rocks (you do have rocks as weapons, don't you?)?
No rocks. You can use throwing weapons for melee. We have knives, throwing axes, and chakrams - all could be used in an "up close and personal" manner.

Are there different kinds of ammo for bows and crossbows for special tasks (armor piercing, barbed, etc.)?
Yes. I'm at work now, so I don't have access to my files, but here is an old picture I found in my gmail.
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6276 ... hot9zv.png
There are 3 types: regular, armor piercing, and barbed. You can see regular and barbed on the screen.

Finally, would you say that a Ranged speicalist is as viable a combat character as one who focuses on a melee weapon? Or maybe a healthy balance is the best medicine?
As viable, imo.
 

NoisyKillerHPB

Scholar
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Dec 15, 2005
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a pillar of skulls
VD I've got a slight suggestion about the dialogue in the screens you posted, maybe make actions enclosed in ( ) rather than * *...I think that would come across better for me but it won't stop me from buying ;0
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
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Montreal
Not a good idea IMO. "*" is used because it is not part of normal punctuation, so clearly distinguishes that section as something different. "(" is normal punctuation, so could be confused (at least sometimes) for something the NPC is saying, rather than doing.
If * is replaced it should be with something that isn't normal punctuation.

Another possibility might be to use ( ), but to have actions/events in a different color. That way you can get the neatness of ( ) without any confusion.

In any case, the first priority should be clarity.
 

Azael

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Wasteland 2
Vault Dweller said:
No. Since there are no penalties, feel free to shoot him in the face with your crossbow and watch him fly. I designed crossbows as early equivalent of shotguns. Bows are "rifles".

Won't that make ranged weapons more powerful than close combat ones instead? You can both attack at a safe distance and in close combat just as well, making ranged the way to go. Or is the difference in AP costs/special attacks enough to make up for this perceived advantage?

No rocks. You can use throwing weapons for melee. We have knives, throwing axes, and chakrams - all could be used in an "up close and personal" manner.

No rocks? You call this a CRPG? :( How big is the difference in damage from a throwing dagger to a dagger specialized in melee combat? Can you use a throwing dagger for critical strikes in conversations?

Yes. I'm at work now, so I don't have access to my files, but here is an old picture I found in my gmail.
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6276 ... hot9zv.png
There are 3 types: regular, armor piercing, and barbed. You can see regular and barbed on the screen.

Good to know.

As viable, imo.

Good to hear.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Azael said:
Won't that make ranged weapons more powerful than close combat ones instead? You can both attack at a safe distance and in close combat just as well, making ranged the way to go.
Shields offer far greater protection against ranged attacks than against melee attacks. A ranged guy would have his own challenges to overcome.

How big is the difference in damage from a throwing dagger to a dagger specialized in melee combat?
Usually there are 3 different weapons per class. Let's call them tiers for convinience. Throwing dagger is a tier 1 weapon in the throwing class. Its damage is the same as that of the tier 1 dagger in the dagger class.

Can you use a throwing dagger for critical strikes in conversations?
Yes. The criterion is speed, not type. Anything that could be used quickly (<4APs) will trigger a "critical strike" dialogue option, assuming you have some critical strike skills.
 

John Yossarian

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Azael said:
Vault Dweller said:
No. Since there are no penalties, feel free to shoot him in the face with your crossbow and watch him fly. I designed crossbows as early equivalent of shotguns. Bows are "rifles".

Won't that make ranged weapons more powerful than close combat ones instead? You can both attack at a safe distance and in close combat just as well, making ranged the way to go. Or is the difference in AP costs/special attacks enough to make up for this perceived advantage?

I was wondering that too. Maybe the base accuracy will be enough to balance it out, although VD said it would only slowly decrease with range, so if youre deadly with a xbow at close quarters you'll still be pretty good further away. Perhaps the damage will also work to balance it, or the armor damage resistance will be much higher against ranged weapons than melee. However this is not consistent with "watch him fly". Damn now im confused, could you clear some of this up VD? :?
OTOH, if they go the Arcanum route, where golems walk a mile a turn and melee is so much more powerful, it'll suck most of teh phun out of playing a ranged character. :(

edit:Sorry for the late post, thx for clearing that up.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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John Yossarian said:
Perhaps the damage will also work to balance it, or the armor damage resistance will be much higher against ranged weapons than melee.
Nope, the same.

However this is not consistent with "watch him fly". Damn now im confused, could you clear some of this up VD? :?
Crossbows' and hammers' trait is knockdown, inspired, borrowed, and stolen from Fallout. (I loved that sledge hammer). Every time you attack you have a chance to score the trait effect. The higher the skill, the higher the chance.

Now the question is does that make a crossbowman too powerful? Yes and no. If you are facing a crossbowman, attacking him unprepared and spending 2-3 turns to close the distance could be a suicide mission, especially if your CON is low, which means that your HPs are low. If you are prepared, well, that's a different story.

OTOH, if they go the Arcanum route, where golems walk a mile a turn and melee is so much more powerful, it'll suck most of teh phun out of playing a ranged character. :(
No, nothing like that. That was a horrible combat-ruining flaw.
 

Slith

Scholar
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
231
Location
West Coast, Canada
Considering how this is somewhat based on Romans, and how you already have a roman weapon - the Gladius. Are you also putting in things like their Javelins? I'm asking in particular about this because the Roman Pilum has a neat thing it does with shields.

http://www.legiiavg.org.uk/images/mil01.jpg
http://www.legiiavg.org.uk/images/militarypic7.jpg
http://www.caerleon.net/history/army/legionary4c.jpg
http://cf.geocities.com/legioqc/pilum.jpg

In short, it goes right through them. If you take a close look at the head, you'll see it's a long iron shaft. This punches straight through the shield and into the body of whoever is carrying it. Doesn't stop there, either. Even if the victim manages to not be skewered by the two foot shaft, he's now got a giant spear attached to his shield, making it really hard to move around and defend with. The iron shaft bends on impact too, making it very difficult to pull out or throw back.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Slith said:
Considering how this is somewhat based on Romans, and how you already have a roman weapon - the Gladius. Are you also putting in things like their Javelins? I'm asking in particular about this because the Roman Pilum has a neat thing it does with shields.
Yes, there are pilums and they do ignore and disarm shields. There are other ways to deal with shields too (there was a thread here somewhere). Bearded axe can pull shields off, sickle swords are very hard to block, etc.
 

John Yossarian

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Wow sickle swords, that sounds nice. I didn't know romans also used something like that. The History Channel showed a few israelite battles wre they were used, but nothing more than that.
 

Naked_Lunch

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The copyright's blank, eh? Guess I'm free to rape and pillage the heck out of that image all I want. Long live consumer rights! Fight the man! Copyleft not copyright! Etc.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The mystery has been unravelled! Lo and Behold!

swords4.jpg


Theft! Theft!

By the way: Awesome artist, this Michael Corriero.
pg11.jpg
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
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Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Happy to oblige! Someone had to do it.

I did it for you, for the Codex and for my fatherland.
 

Slith

Scholar
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Messages
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Location
West Coast, Canada
A Falchion would be my guess.

One of the ancient sword designs I most love is the Falcata. Which is also similar to the Greek Makhaira.
thumb-falcata.jpg



Up there with it is probably the Pompeii style Gladius. Which has a completely straight blade edge instead of a leaf shape like the Mainz style in the concept art.

pompeii-gladius.gif
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,024
Major_Blackhart said:
Vault Dweller said:
I don't think they did, but Egypt was right around the corner in those days, and them Egyptian were fond of khopesh swords.

Our concept art

What is the one on top called?
My own design. I wanted a nice "middle-eastern" 2H sword that doesn't look like a typical greatsword. The curve of a scimitar and the broad blade of a falchion.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
Well, it's better than my name "circumsixzor". Anyway, will we be seeing other types of swords, or are those templates it? Also, for axes/hammers, will we have access to the Pickaxe/ Iron Mattock? (Which is basically a bigass 2handed war pick made badass for it's ability to penetrate armor and skewer enemies completely) Also, do you have glaives and polearms? I dunno why, but I've been turning into a glaive nut recently. Prolly having something to do with my purchase of CSM Codex for Warhammer 40k and deciding to play a World Eaters army (you'll understand if you know what I mean). Also, in terms of magic, will there be enchantments? I cant remember if you said so or not. I know we can craft weapons and such, and there were certain material types we could use that had magic like properties, etc. Also, could you deconstruct a weapon to get it's ore/raw material?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Major_Blackhart said:
Anyway, will we be seeing other types of swords, or are those templates it?
Nope, no other types. Well, we can easily make a shitload of weapons, but the difference would be mostly cosmetic.

Also, for axes/hammers, will we have access to the Pickaxe/ Iron Mattock?
Nope.

Also, do you have glaives and polearms? I dunno why, but I've been turning into a glaive nut recently.
Nope. No polearm-like weapons.

Also, in terms of magic, will there be enchantments?
Nope. Your character can't use magic in any way.

Also, could you deconstruct a weapon to get it's ore/raw material?
Finally, a question I can answer positively. Yes, you can.
 

Quigs

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Sep 16, 2003
Messages
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Any chance of bumping up the power of bows against melee?

Seems to be in most games that envolve bows, that you get one shot off, two if your extremely lucky and far away, and outside that, your beat if the guy isnt dead. Always seemed kinda gimpy to have a char be a great archer, but not be able to drop a man.
 

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