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Currency

Rina

Scholar
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
151
I'm curious how AoD handles it's currency? Most of RPG's have just generic gold coins and they completely ignore gold's real world value and heavy weight.
There is absolutely no way anyone could run around with 5000 gold coins in their backpack even if they are carrying nothing else.
And no one in their right mind would pay a 1 gold coin for a loaf of bread, as most of lower- and middleclass citizens shouldnt even see such amount of money during their whole life. :?

So will there be any sub-currencies like silver and copper? :roll:
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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The local currency is imaginatively called "coins". It's possible that there are coins of different denominations, but the game conviniently ignores this concept.

Coins are magical and weight nothing, but carrying them in large quantities might not be a good idea. There is a weak banking system, courtesy of the Merchants Guild. You can trade your coins for a promissory note. If you don't have any money, you can forge a promissory note. Being caught will be reflected on your reputation with the merchants. Forging documents is a handy by-product of Lore. You can do a lot [of damage] with this ability.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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So wait, I can completely screw the economy up and cause a super amount of inflation or deflation based on my forgery actions? AWESOME! Also, will their banking system be similar to that of the Knights Templar? (I.E. All in code and near impossible to decode?) Also, will the character be able to earn interest on his money in the bank based on how many loans the bank gives out with his money etc?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Major_Blackhart said:
So wait, I can completely screw the economy up and cause a super amount of inflation or deflation based on my forgery actions? AWESOME!
Nothing that dramatic, but if you are good at forging, you can do some serious damage to the Merchants Guild's operations.

Also, will their banking system be similar to that of the Knights Templar? (I.E. All in code and near impossible to decode?)
No. I didn't think of that.

Also, will the character be able to earn interest on his money in the bank based on how many loans the bank gives out with his money etc?
Yes. Based on the amount and Trading.
 

ad hominem

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Major_Blackhart said:
So wait, I can completely screw the economy up and cause a super amount of inflation or deflation based on my forgery actions?
Seeing as how the best minds in the field can't create an accurate computer simulation of a free-market economy, that would be a truly heroic feat.

About the "magical" weightless coins....I understand it's a convention of ease but is there some kind of lore or something that will explain such a phenomenon? That's one thing in RPGs that's always bothered me. But if AoD has a reason for it, I'm game.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Why bother explaining it. I say to hell with realism in that respect. Use it where it would enhance gameplay, not hinder it.
 

Balor

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Seeing as how the best minds in the field can't create an accurate computer simulation of a free-market economy, that would be a truly heroic feat.
I guess that's because there is no such thing as free-market economy? :)
 

WouldBeCreator

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Feb 18, 2006
Messages
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Do you really need a magic explanation? The kind of transactions that individuals would engage in would likely not involve money greater than what one could comfortably carry in a purse or, at worst, a rucksack. A centurion would earn around 300 denarii a month. A farm hand would make a tenth that. 500 denarii could buy a slave. 250 or so could buy a horse. (These figures are for around the 1st century BC, but still.) 6000 denarii translated to one talent of silver. 15-20 talents of silver translated to a talent of gold, whcih was about 110 pounds.

So 110 pounds of gold = 400 months of centurion pay. Assume you could comfortably carry five pounds of gold (4090 denarii worth), then a the player can carry enough money, comfortably, to hire 18 trained warriors for a month's service. Or he could buy thirty slaves, or whatever. I can't imagine much more expensive deals going down than that. :)
 

Bar Tec

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WouldBeCreator said:
So 110 pounds of gold = 400 months of centurion pay. Assume you could comfortably carry five pounds of gold (4090 denarii worth), then a the player can carry enough money, comfortably, to hire 18 trained warriors for a month's service. Or he could buy thirty slaves, or whatever.

Exactly, there is no problem with carrying large amounts in gold. Note that, accrording to current rates, 5 pounds of gold are worth about $46,000 - it is funny to see, how little purchasing power has changed over the centuries. A very tiny gold coin (1 gram) would be worth apporx. $20. Additionally, gold has very high density (specific weight) - 19,3 g/cm3. Thus, five pounds will occupy relatively little space in your inventory - less than a can of coke :cool:
 

Lumpy

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Sep 11, 2005
Messages
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Usually, whenever my character has 20000 cash in their pocket, I just assume they have 20 coins worth 1000 cash. I think it would be very annoying if the game forced you to micromanage currencies.
 

Hazelnut

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metallix said:
Use wine corks please.
:lol:

Reminds me of my first ever game of fallout... I kept throwing away all the bottletops I found assuming they were simply bits of general detritus included for atmosphere! I felt a bit sheepish when I realised they were currency... :oops:
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Seven said:
What happens if the merchants get robbed, do you loose your money or is it guaranteed
You give your money to the guild, which is a powerful and rich organization. Your deposits are safe.

ad hominem said:
About the "magical" weightless coins....I understand it's a convention of ease but is there some kind of lore or something that will explain such a phenomenon? That's one thing in RPGs that's always bothered me. But if AoD has a reason for it, I'm game.
They are not really magical, that was a joke.

Speaking of money, I really like the Dungeon Master system. You had a box with different sections for bronze coins -> silver coins -> gold coins -> green gems -> red gems -> blue gems. You could give the box to shopkeepers and they would sort the coins & gems and do the exchange when necessary. Having nothing but 2-3 blue gems felt like a real fortune, and was rather convinient.

Any other good system?
 

ixg

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the dungeon master system sounds good
and you can always limit the amounts of one type of coin you can carry. so you can have 100 copper, or 50 copper 50 silver, etc.
also, the roman army was paid with salt too, this could be thrown in (wierd but heh)
 

ad hominem

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Vault Dweller said:
They are not really magical, that was a joke.

Speaking of money, I really like the Dungeon Master system. You had a box with different sections for bronze coins -> silver coins -> gold coins -> green gems -> red gems -> blue gems. You could give the box to shopkeepers and they would sort the coins & gems and do the exchange when necessary. Having nothing but 2-3 blue gems felt like a real fortune, and was rather convinient.
Sorry, I'm stupid.

I like the DM system, there, it's kind of like an abacus and a bit more fleshed-out. It would be a bit of an interesting take to have coins of different denominations (nickel or copper for the low end, silver for middle, gold/gems for high-end). Even if the management is done behind-the-scenes, I think it would add depth to a game. Any society as advanced as the one portrayed in AoD is likely to have several different denominations, as opposed to the ubiquitous "coin".
 

Astromarine

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can you do neat stuff like steal and destroy someone's loan records from the merchants, thereby removing all proof that he was indebted to anyone?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Yes, similar to the PST "break a Mortuary contract" quest. Every Merchants Guild "office" has a room where all ledgers and other documents, including remote trading operations info and maps are kept. There are quests requiring access to these rooms (stealth, persuasion, brute force, bribery, disguise).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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ad hominem said:
Even if the management is done behind-the-scenes, I think it would add depth to a game. Any society as advanced as the one portrayed in AoD is likely to have several different denominations, as opposed to the ubiquitous "coin".
Well, we still have time. I'll add to my list.
 

ad hominem

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Vault Dweller said:
Yes, similar to the PST "break a Mortuary contract" quest. Every Merchants Guild "office" has a room where all ledgers and other documents, including remote trading operations info and maps are kept. There are quests requiring access to these rooms (stealth, persuasion, brute force, bribery, disguise).
Neat! I am so looking forward to this game.
 

Psilon

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Codex retirement
Castle of the Winds, an old Windows roguelike, also used weighted currency. Not only did large amounts of cash burden you, but thieves could steal your money. If you went all the way up to town, you could stop by the bank and convert all that loot to a weightless, unstealable letter of credit. I can't remember if they charged a fee for this.
 

galsiah

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Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
Odd you should mention that - I was playing CotW yesterday (for some strange reason :)). Banking money didn't cost anything, but then you were in a small town and you'd saved them from the attacks.

It didn't affect the game much either way though. Compared to the weight of other loot, coins aren't that significant in CotW. I never got in the way or became annoying though.

Cash for purchases was generally offered automatically from the player's bank balance using "letters of credit" (though the player never needs to hand the letter over, he is told that it exists). Cash for sales is given in gold / silver (rather than copper) where possible, which means you aren't weighed down significantly after selling (items worth over 100 gold are rare). All currency conversions for sales / purchases are automatic.

In CotW it works well, since the player rarely moves from town to town, and can't avoid passing the bank frequently. The basic currency unit is copper (the cheapest), not gold though. All prices are in copper, and the player thinks in copper.

I'm not sure this would translate well to a dialogue heavy game. NPCs are sure to talk about gold rather than copper at least some of the time, but item prices are more easy to work with if kept entirely in copper. It might perhaps add unnecessary complication.
 

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