AoD - first 3D screen

Psilon · Aug 23, 2005

Looks nice, VD. How does the game scale to higher resolutions so far?

Whipporowill · Aug 23, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
Naked_Lunch said:

Woah, mad soil erosion going on right there. Keep it up and you may even get PATRICK STEWART!!!

Click to expand...

However good their soil erosion might be, I'm pretty sure their budget limits the AoD team to hiring PATRICK TEH LLAMAGOD to do the voice-overs. Wouldn't that be neat, huh?

Kamaz · Aug 23, 2005

They could hire Rex Exitium for voice cover. Wouldnt that be HAWT feature?

On the other hand, however, some months after going gold he'd come up with topic "I take it all back" and "Do you have nerve thinking you can just keep it" or smth. claiming his voice back.

ichpokhudezh · Aug 23, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
1) The LEGO effect
2) Lack of shadows
3) Too cartoonish
4) Models issues (skirts are too tight, golden plate is too bright and shiny, not enough colors and dents, etc)
5) Unrealistic environments and tents that are not up to the tent industry standards.
....
How important realistic tents, properly planted flora, and soil erosion in an RPG? Imo, as long as people understand that this fine object is a tent, and it looks like most of you did, it's good enough for me.

VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief. Otherwise the whole picture degrades into a piece of colored paper with figurines on top. Which brings about 3) and 1).
If you critically analyze 3) + 5) - all of which would be 'models' (for me) - all types of objects look unrealistic in their ways. I.e. armor plates are too angular (like they would be build out of mosaic pieces, their brigthtness only makes this effect more pronounced. Unless they polish their armor at every break, it should look dull). Whereas the tents add to the unrealistic feel of the scene by being 'too plasticky'.

As far as attention to "details" go, you can check out X-COM, where soldier's boots would be sometimes covered by the local greenery and would be visible on tarmac. That's details.

Sorry, I did not pour a thick layer of praises on the pics - if that's what you've craved. Here - they are almost saleable as they are now.

I liked the trees/shrubs - they look ok on their own, human model poses look good, barrels look almost ok (now, nitpicking and attention to detail would mean barrels sagging a bit, planks darkening at the edges, metal rings, covers that go inside, etc - ALL of this would not even double the polygon count for barrels. BTW, why there are barrels at a foot camp at all?).
Since the flora looked almost ok, i suggested an improvement to make it even more agreeable, it's your call after all to implement that or not.

Vault Dweller · Aug 23, 2005

ichpokhudezh said:
VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief.

If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts. The way I humbly see it, 3D should add something. If 3D is a basically a carbon copy of 2D (i.e. exactly the same shit, only in 3D), that sucks. If 3D adds something or adds more than it takes, than it's all good.

Like I said my main reason for switching was to have proper characters, proper animations, poses, etc. Topographic relief is secondary. If we can do it reasonably fast, we will. If not, I'll file it under "who gives a damn".

If you critically analyze 3) + 5) - all of which would be 'models' (for me) - all types of objects look unrealistic in their ways. I.e. armor plates are too angular (like they would be build out of mosaic pieces, their brigthtness only makes this effect more pronounced. Unless they polish their armor at every break, it should look dull). Whereas the tents add to the unrealistic feel of the scene by being 'too plasticky'.

Accepted.

As far as attention to "details" go, you can check out X-COM, where soldier's boots would be sometimes covered by the local greenery and would be visible on tarmac. That's details.

Time and money. Mostly time.

Sorry, I did not pour a thick layer of praises on the pics - if that's what you've craved.

If I expected that I wouldn't have posted the screens. I want criticism.

BTW, why there are barrels at a foot camp at all?

From robbed caravans that pass nearby. It's a raiders' camp. An unfinished raiders' camp.

LlamaGod · Aug 23, 2005

HEY THE 3D SUCKS ASS

Come on.. DONT RUIN THE GAME ALREADY

It's not even done!

Go back to the purdy 2D graphics and stuff, like you had. Fuck this shit.

ichpokhudezh · Aug 23, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
ichpokhudezh said:

VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief.

Click to expand...

If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts.

I do not think my expectations are totally baseless. Some stuff that is used to promote/sell game engines:
Reality engine
Torque art pack
Check out Fate as well.

Vault Dweller said:
Like I said my main reason for switching was to have proper characters, proper animations, poses, etc. Topographic relief is secondary. If we can do it reasonably fast, we will. If not, I'll file it under "who gives a damn".

I'd say environment means a lot in a scene. Just having good animations/characters striking poses is not enough. Very toy-like. See the 'cartoonish' and 'LEGO' remarks.

Vault Dweller said:
The way I humbly see it, 3D should add something. If 3D is a basically a carbon copy of 2D (i.e. exactly the same shit, only in 3D), that sucks. If 3D adds something or adds more than it takes, than it's all good.

I've lost you on the first one, but to the second I must reply "that is if".
If character models/barrels and greenery were the reasons for conversion, I would prefer the prior 2d look.

I would probably buy it anyhow, so it's actually a moot point.

aweigh · Aug 23, 2005

The game looks fine to me. Hell, from those caps it already looks better than NWN (in graphics, i mean, please don't accuse me of liking that game)

Vault Dweller · Aug 23, 2005

ichpokhudezh said:
Vault Dweller said:

ichpokhudezh said:

VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief.

Click to expand...

If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts.

Click to expand...

I do not think my expectations are totally baseless.

I didn't say they are baseless, I said that your argument was based on expectations, which didn't imply that your expectations were unreasonable.

Some stuff that is used to promote/sell game engines:

Nowadays, pretty stuff sells better than dry mechanics, so it's logical that engines' promotions focus on that.

I'd say environment means a lot in a scene.

True, but development time is always limited (some exceptions apply - *looks at Cleve*). Some people throw out dialogues and valuable, imo, gameplay elements. I throw out some scenery elements, may God have mercy on my soul.

Just having good animations/characters striking poses is not enough. Very toy-like. See the 'cartoonish' and 'LEGO' remarks.

I believe that there are other reasons for the cartoonish and LEGO remarks: poor textures, basic colors, no shadows/light, blocky armor, etc. Fixing that would/should take of that problem.

If character models/barrels and greenery were the reasons for conversion, I would prefer the prior 2d look.

Why? If you don't mind me asking. Keep in mind that there would have been no shields with 2D, only 3-4 visible armors, and one generic attack per weapon type. It would have been silly to select a whirlwind attack with your 2H sword and see a small thrust with a 1H sword while enemies around you are taking damage. More armor/clothing elements is important for Disguise, etc.

callehe · Aug 23, 2005

Why? If you don't mind me asking. Keep in mind that there would have been no shields with 2D, only 3-4 visible armors, and one generic attack per weapon type. It would have been silly to select a whirlwind attack with your 2H sword and see a small thrust with a 1H sword while enemies around you are taking damage. More armor/clothing elements is important for Disguise, etc.

Extremely good point there. But why not do only the characters in 3D and environment 2D? You'll get the best of 2 world - great animations and pretty environment. Don't know if this is feasible though, just a thought from a casual gamer.

Shevek · Aug 23, 2005

You want to sell the player on the gameworld by how much detail you add in there. This isnt to say that everything needs to be 50 billion polygons. As far as the tent goes, you can make a tent spike with, hmm, 5 triangles and a simple (tought) rope with 6 or so. Panned out far enough, that adds a lil something. put a blanket on the inside of the thing that sorta drapes out a bit. Dirty it up and show some wear. You might even add a rip or two. Though I didnt buy it, I recall that one of the big things many mocked Dungeon Lords over, even here, was the lack of detail in the environment (empty taverns, etc).

I dont think anyone expects super graphics but something akin to what the folks at WildTangent or MoonPod have been doing on their budget titles doesnt seem too far fetched.

NeutralMilkHotel · Aug 24, 2005

So, when's the game coming now if you stick with torque?

Roqua · Aug 24, 2005

I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards.

Sandelfron · Aug 24, 2005

Roqua said:
I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards.

What game project are you working on currently? I seem to have forgotten.

aweigh · Aug 24, 2005

what exactly do you mean by "modern" RPG combat? what the fuck are you talking about? and graphics... again, what the fuck? are you going to use RTWP as some sort of "standard" of modern RPG combat? or do you mean real-time hack 'n slash like in Oblivion/Fable? are you worred there won't be voice-overs by Patrick Stewart? I know i am.

Shagnak · Aug 24, 2005

Actually, given that Roqua is hell-bent on all crpgs having no RT hack n slash combat, and doesn't want VD to "cater to graphics whores", I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic or ironic or something.

Even then, I am not certain what he thinks he knows about the combat that VD has implemented.

Naked_Lunch · Aug 24, 2005

Roqua said:
I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards.

Yes, the lack of light bloom is quite disturbing.

Sandelfron · Aug 24, 2005

Shagnak said:
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic or ironic or something.

No shit, Shaglock? So was my response. :cool:

Vault Dweller · Aug 24, 2005

How is this armor?

Whipporowill · Aug 24, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
How is this armor?

Me thinks the name of the game fits! Stupid legionnaires can't take care of their damned armor it seems... very nice.

Surlent · Aug 24, 2005

That's some sweet armor there.

Sandelfron · Aug 24, 2005

Looks much better already.

Naked_Lunch · Aug 24, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
How is this armor?

That looks really nice VD. Great improvement!

Atrokkus · Aug 24, 2005

I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards.

Who the fuck cares about "up to date graphics" in RPG?
Of course, if it was a FPS project, then it would be right to flame it for having mediocre graphic quality, but this is RPG, ffs.

NeutralMilkHotel · Aug 24, 2005

Looks good.

AoD - first 3D screen

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