Psilon
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 2023
Location: Codex retirement
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Looks nice, VD. How does the game scale to higher resolutions so far?
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Whipporowill
Nude Kid On the Block
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 2955
Location: 59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | | Naked_Lunch wrote: | | Woah, mad soil erosion going on right there. Keep it up and you may even get PATRICK STEWART!!! |
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However good their soil erosion might be, I'm pretty sure their budget limits the AoD team to hiring PATRICK TEH LLAMAGOD to do the voice-overs. Wouldn't that be neat, huh?
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Kamaz
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 587
Location: The Glorious Ancient City of Loja
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: |
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They could hire Rex Exitium for voice cover. Wouldnt that be HAWT feature?
On the other hand, however, some months after going gold he'd come up with topic "I take it all back" and "Do you have nerve thinking you can just keep it" or smth. claiming his voice back.
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ichpokhudezh
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 179
Location: germantown, md
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | 1) The LEGO effect
2) Lack of shadows
3) Too cartoonish
4) Models issues (skirts are too tight, golden plate is too bright and shiny, not enough colors and dents, etc)
5) Unrealistic environments and tents that are not up to the tent industry standards.
....
How important realistic tents, properly planted flora, and soil erosion in an RPG? Imo, as long as people understand that this fine object is a tent, and it looks like most of you did, it's good enough for me. |
VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief. Otherwise the whole picture degrades into a piece of colored paper with figurines on top. Which brings about 3) and 1).
If you critically analyze 3) + 5) - all of which would be 'models' (for me) - all types of objects look unrealistic in their ways. I.e. armor plates are too angular (like they would be build out of mosaic pieces, their brigthtness only makes this effect more pronounced. Unless they polish their armor at every break, it should look dull). Whereas the tents add to the unrealistic feel of the scene by being 'too plasticky'.
As far as attention to "details" go, you can check out X-COM, where soldier's boots would be sometimes covered by the local greenery and would be visible on tarmac. That's details.
Sorry, I did not pour a thick layer of praises on the pics - if that's what you've craved. Here - they are almost saleable as they are now.
I liked the trees/shrubs - they look ok on their own, human model poses look good, barrels look almost ok (now, nitpicking and attention to detail would mean barrels sagging a bit, planks darkening at the edges, metal rings, covers that go inside, etc - ALL of this would not even double the polygon count for barrels. BTW, why there are barrels at a foot camp at all?).
Since the flora looked almost ok, i suggested an improvement to make it even more agreeable, it's your call after all to implement that or not. |
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Vault Dweller
Ubersturmfuhrer
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 15337
Location: Vault 13
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ichpokhudezh wrote: | | VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief. |
If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts. The way I humbly see it, 3D should add something. If 3D is a basically a carbon copy of 2D (i.e. exactly the same shit, only in 3D), that sucks. If 3D adds something or adds more than it takes, than it's all good.
Like I said my main reason for switching was to have proper characters, proper animations, poses, etc. Topographic relief is secondary. If we can do it reasonably fast, we will. If not, I'll file it under "who gives a damn".
| Quote: | | If you critically analyze 3) + 5) - all of which would be 'models' (for me) - all types of objects look unrealistic in their ways. I.e. armor plates are too angular (like they would be build out of mosaic pieces, their brigthtness only makes this effect more pronounced. Unless they polish their armor at every break, it should look dull). Whereas the tents add to the unrealistic feel of the scene by being 'too plasticky'. |
Accepted.
| Quote: | | As far as attention to "details" go, you can check out X-COM, where soldier's boots would be sometimes covered by the local greenery and would be visible on tarmac. That's details. |
Time and money. Mostly time.
| Quote: | | Sorry, I did not pour a thick layer of praises on the pics - if that's what you've craved. |
If I expected that I wouldn't have posted the screens. I want criticism.
| Quote: | | BTW, why there are barrels at a foot camp at all? |
From robbed caravans that pass nearby. It's a raiders' camp. An unfinished raiders' camp.
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LlamaGod
Messed with Texas
Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 3127
Location: Yes
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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HEY THE 3D SUCKS ASS
Come on.. DONT RUIN THE GAME ALREADY
It's not even done!
Go back to the purdy 2D graphics and stuff, like you had. Fuck this shit.
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ichpokhudezh
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 179
Location: germantown, md
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | | ichpokhudezh wrote: | | VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief. |
If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts.
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I do not think my expectations are totally baseless. Some stuff that is used to promote/sell game engines:
Reality engine
Torque art pack
Check out Fate as well.
| Vault Dweller wrote: |
Like I said my main reason for switching was to have proper characters, proper animations, poses, etc. Topographic relief is secondary. If we can do it reasonably fast, we will. If not, I'll file it under "who gives a damn".
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I'd say environment means a lot in a scene. Just having good animations/characters striking poses is not enough. Very toy-like. See the 'cartoonish' and 'LEGO' remarks.
| Vault Dweller wrote: |
The way I humbly see it, 3D should add something. If 3D is a basically a carbon copy of 2D (i.e. exactly the same shit, only in 3D), that sucks. If 3D adds something or adds more than it takes, than it's all good.
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I've lost you on the first one, but to the second I must reply "that is if".
If character models/barrels and greenery were the reasons for conversion, I would prefer the prior 2d look.
I would probably buy it anyhow, so it's actually a moot point. |
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aweigh
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 2925
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The game looks fine to me. Hell, from those caps it already looks better than NWN (in graphics, i mean, please don't accuse me of liking that game) |
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Vault Dweller
Ubersturmfuhrer
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 15337
Location: Vault 13
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ichpokhudezh wrote: | | Vault Dweller wrote: | | ichpokhudezh wrote: | | VD, you're missing the point. In 2D I would expect a sheet of paper with drawn obstacles and would be happy with something 'extruding' with the help of my imagination and/or artistic shading. In 3D I expect some sort of topographic relief. |
If you carefully examine what you wrote, you'd see that your argument is based on your expectations, not on facts or universally accepted concepts.
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I do not think my expectations are totally baseless. |
I didn't say they are baseless, I said that your argument was based on expectations, which didn't imply that your expectations were unreasonable.
| Quote: | | Some stuff that is used to promote/sell game engines: |
Nowadays, pretty stuff sells better than dry mechanics, so it's logical that engines' promotions focus on that.
| Quote: | | I'd say environment means a lot in a scene. |
True, but development time is always limited (some exceptions apply - *looks at Cleve*). Some people throw out dialogues and valuable, imo, gameplay elements. I throw out some scenery elements, may God have mercy on my soul.
| Quote: | | Just having good animations/characters striking poses is not enough. Very toy-like. See the 'cartoonish' and 'LEGO' remarks. |
I believe that there are other reasons for the cartoonish and LEGO remarks: poor textures, basic colors, no shadows/light, blocky armor, etc. Fixing that would/should take of that problem.
| Quote: | | If character models/barrels and greenery were the reasons for conversion, I would prefer the prior 2d look. |
Why? If you don't mind me asking. Keep in mind that there would have been no shields with 2D, only 3-4 visible armors, and one generic attack per weapon type. It would have been silly to select a whirlwind attack with your 2H sword and see a small thrust with a 1H sword while enemies around you are taking damage. More armor/clothing elements is important for Disguise, etc.
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callehe
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Gothic Castle
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why? If you don't mind me asking. Keep in mind that there would have been no shields with 2D, only 3-4 visible armors, and one generic attack per weapon type. It would have been silly to select a whirlwind attack with your 2H sword and see a small thrust with a 1H sword while enemies around you are taking damage. More armor/clothing elements is important for Disguise, etc. |
Extremely good point there. But why not do only the characters in 3D and environment 2D? You'll get the best of 2 world - great animations and pretty environment. Don't know if this is feasible though, just a thought from a casual gamer.
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Shevek
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 565
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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You want to sell the player on the gameworld by how much detail you add in there. This isnt to say that everything needs to be 50 billion polygons. As far as the tent goes, you can make a tent spike with, hmm, 5 triangles and a simple (tought) rope with 6 or so. Panned out far enough, that adds a lil something. put a blanket on the inside of the thing that sorta drapes out a bit. Dirty it up and show some wear. You might even add a rip or two. Though I didnt buy it, I recall that one of the big things many mocked Dungeon Lords over, even here, was the lack of detail in the environment (empty taverns, etc).
I dont think anyone expects super graphics but something akin to what the folks at WildTangent or MoonPod have been doing on their budget titles doesnt seem too far fetched.
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NeutralMilkHotel
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: |
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So, when's the game coming now if you stick with torque?
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| bryce777 wrote: | | Dialog trees really do limit what you can do. I mean, seriously, all you do is find people in the right order and talk to them. I think it really does degrade the gameplay a bit, though it does make it much easier obviously. |
| Drakron wrote: | :evil: waaaaahhh waaaaaahhh waaaaaahh :evil:  |
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Roqua
King
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 1344
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards. |
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Sandelfron
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Roqua wrote: | | I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards. |
What game project are you working on currently? I seem to have forgotten. |
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aweigh
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 2925
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| what exactly do you mean by "modern" RPG combat? what the fuck are you talking about? and graphics... again, what the fuck? are you going to use RTWP as some sort of "standard" of modern RPG combat? or do you mean real-time hack 'n slash like in Oblivion/Fable? are you worred there won't be voice-overs by Patrick Stewart? I know i am. |
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Shagnak
Shagadelic
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 4451
Location: Arse of the world, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Actually, given that Roqua is hell-bent on all crpgs having no RT hack n slash combat, and doesn't want VD to "cater to graphics whores", I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic or ironic or something.
Even then, I am not certain what he thinks he knows about the combat that VD has implemented.
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Naked_Lunch
`
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 5380
Location: Norway, 1967
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Roqua wrote: | | I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards. |
Yes, the lack of light bloom is quite disturbing. |
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Sandelfron
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Shagnak wrote: | | I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic or ironic or something. |
No shit, Shaglock? So was my response. 8-) |
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Vault Dweller
Ubersturmfuhrer
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 15337
Location: Vault 13
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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How is this armor?
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Whipporowill
Nude Kid On the Block
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 2955
Location: 59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Me thinks the name of the game fits! Stupid legionnaires can't take care of their damned armor it seems... very nice.
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Surlent
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 825
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| That's some sweet armor there. |
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Sandelfron
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks much better already. |
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Naked_Lunch
`
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 5380
Location: Norway, 1967
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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That looks really nice VD. Great improvement! |
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Atrokkus
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 3092
Location: Borat's Fantasy Land
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not sure the graphics or combat in this game will be up to modern rpgs standards. |
Who the fuck cares about "up to date graphics" in RPG?
Of course, if it was a FPS project, then it would be right to flame it for having mediocre graphic quality, but this is RPG, ffs.
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NeutralMilkHotel
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good.
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| bryce777 wrote: | | Dialog trees really do limit what you can do. I mean, seriously, all you do is find people in the right order and talk to them. I think it really does degrade the gameplay a bit, though it does make it much easier obviously. |
| Drakron wrote: | | :evil: waaaaahhh waaaaaahhh waaaaaahh :evil: |
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