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3D made RPG's SHIT!
- Thread starter deus101
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Reconite said:
Less choice is better in fallout in general because all the quests are functional at best and
at worst. And Beth is no exception. Nothing gets my blood boiling more than reading a Todd Howard interview where he explains how they cut out stuff that (at least to me) sounds better than what they left in (like rebuilding kvatch with player input and letting you join the elder council in Oblivion).Zeit
Educated
deus101 said:
Hey look! Another fucking dumbass. What are the odds? OK dip shit. If 3D doesn't cost more to produce, then why do modern development teams have more artists than ever? Also, why do modern development teams employ more artists than any other type of developer? Yeah, you are a fucking retarded waste of human tissue. Fuck off and die.
You program shit. Fucking dip shit.
Zeit
Educated
deus101 said:TrollollolollOOLL lololo lolol loooo
But seriusly...
A troll that knows more about development than a self proclaimed "programmer". Just because your mom sucked your dad off, spit his juice into her hand, and than quickly rubbed it into her vagina doesn't mean you are a human being. Now go program yourself out of existence fuck shoe.
tunguska
Liturgist
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The problem with sprites is you have to do a separate drawing for every view angle (which means at least six) and then I assume additional drawings for each animated movement. If you want to change one thing about your character you have to redraw all of those bitmaps. That's a lot of artwork. Although traditional artists do find that stuff easier and more natural. In 3d, you create a polygon model in an app like Maya or 3D Studio Max, export it to zbrush or mudbox for fine detailing, make some UV maps with Headus UVlayout, and do some finishing touches in photoshop. If you need to change or refine something you just go back into Maya and move some vertices around. Of course all of that stuff takes talent, but then so does making bitmap drawings for your sprites.
deus101
Never LET ME into a tattoo parlor!
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Reconite said:
AGREED!
There is also an interesting paper that touches on this subject...
http://differentgaming.blogspot.com/200 ... t-get.html
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Zeit said:
Because image quality has increased drastically. If you tried to reproduce a modern game and use nothing but 2d assets it would take eons to complete. With 3D you just make the model and animate it. With 2d you either need to make every single frame by hand or make a 3d model and take a picture of it in every position you need (which is a lot of frames if you want to get decent animation). 2d will also end up taking up a lot more hard drive space. And I'm not anywhere near a professional programmer's level but I've tinkered with game programming enough to say that 2d art is a nightmare to work with from that angle as well unless you're not having much (if any) animation in your game. That might work for a roguelike or a highly abstracted tactical game, but not much else.
Zeit
Educated
Mastermind said:
FALLOUT 1:
FALLOUT 3:
Hey look, more artists and more programmers needed to develop the 3D engine!
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
Mastermind said:Relayer71 said:
Yeah, bg2, torment and morrowind are all real shit.
BG2 and PST are 2d and Morrowind is shit, except for alien landscapes+art.
tunguska
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Zeit said:
They would have had even more artists for a 2d project with the same art quality. OTOH, it would almost certainly have looked better. Bethesda has never been able to do 3d to save their lives. Maybe they'll figure it out on their next project, but so far I am not impressed. I bet Oblivion would also have looked better in 2D. But it would have been a hell of a lot of work.
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Did you even read what I said?moron said:
Fallout 1/2 are not 2d reproductions of Fallout 3 you dumb fuck. For them to be 2d reproductions they'd have to play and look exactly the same as Fallout 3, only instead of using 3d assets they would use 2d assets (which means every single possible frame in the game would need to be created or photographed by hand). If you're too much of a dumb fuck to see how much easier it is to produce EQUIVALENT 3d graphics then there's no helping you.
Nevermind that Beth didn't program any 3d engine, they bought the rights to the Gamebryo engine which Fallout 3 uses. Modern games need more programmers/artists because they're bigger and the graphics are higher quality, not because they're 3d.
deus101
Never LET ME into a tattoo parlor!
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What is the thing called, the data structure you use to hierarchically divide up 3D objects in the space...you know where the structure itself is the sum of all the objects ..I'm such a shit programmer i can't tell...please help.Zeit said:deus101 said:TrollollolollOOLL lololo lolol loooo
But seriusly...
A troll that knows more about development than a self proclaimed "programmer". Just because your mom sucked your dad off, spit his juice into her hand, and than quickly rubbed it into her vagina doesn't mean you are a human being. Now go program yourself out of existence fuck shoe.
Oh, 3D don't really have that effect, if it still was 2D they still could have spent thousands of money on artists and voice actors.
What you can do with a 3D engine is to easily form the tools ready...and it was actually 3D engine i was thinking on, not the need of the jews to make every game into a interactive hollywood blockbuster.
but yeah....
you actually did you part.
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GarfunkeL said:Mastermind said:Relayer71 said:
Yeah, bg2, torment and morrowind are all real shit.
BG2 and PST are 2d and Morrowind is shit, except for alien landscapes+art.
My comment was in reference to the real time combat.
deus101
Never LET ME into a tattoo parlor!
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aries202 said:
I did mention that with the tactical click bit...having to tilt the camera and click click click all the time aint really fun.
And yes...i know that i can micromanage, but still i would like to have to rely attleast on some basic scripting without everything going out of control.
tunguska
Liturgist
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deus101 said:
Still butthurt that the nazis lost WWII you fucking skinhead trailer trash piece of shit? So who is Jewish in this conspiracy of yours? Chris Avellone? Feargus Urquhart? Or maybe you were thinking of Robert Altman, the CEO of Bethesda. Got bad news for you. None of them are jewish. Looks like you are going to have to blame cross worshippers for this one.
Zeit
Educated
tunguska said:
Too bad the data doesn't support your claim. Here's another Low graphics game
Not how few artists it has)See what I mean? Stupid fucks like you don't know shit about dick and then try to edumafcate other stupid fucks about how shit works. GO fuck yourself and die. You don't know a fucking thing about a fucking thing. Fuck nail!
deus101 said:What is the thing called, the data structure you use to hierarchically divide up 3D objects in the space...you know where the structure itself is the sum of all the objects ..I'm such a shit programmer i can't tell...please help.
Oh, 3D don't really have that effect, if it still was 2D they still could have spent thousands of money on artists and voice actors.
What you can do with a 3D engine is to easily form the tools ready...and it was actually 3D engine i was thinking on, not the need of the jews to make every game into a interactive hollywood blockbuster.
but yeah....
God damn you are fucking stupid as fuck. I could randomly ask a child questions and they would know the answer while you would be pretending to be a "programmer" still. Fuck off you fucktastical piece of shit!
Zeit
Educated
deus101 said:
You are a fucking retard. You are getting the ignore button fuck fag!
tunguska
Liturgist
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Holy shit. There actually is an ignore button. I didn't even realize that. The only problem is if I start using it at least 50% of the Codex would be ignored. But maybe that would be a good tihng.
The only way to deal with racists is to kill them. That's right. Mass exterminations. It purifies the gene pool and all that. The funny thing about racist remarks on the internet is that those same guys talking shit in their mother's basement (or in this case trailer) would never have the balls to say those things in real life. If they did they would get their ass kicked or get killed. Or more likely both. And they are too afraid of death. Bunch of chicken-hawk pussies. If you aren't a pussy or punk you'll PM me your name and address and we can settle the argument properly. Deal?
Some people are so stupid that they can't see that more artists does not mean that 3d is harder. Correlation does not equal causation. They would have had more artists either way. Better graphics = more artists. That's how it works. It doesn't matter whether the art pipeline is 2d or 3d. Either way, better graphics is more work and takes more people to do. Simple logic that anyone with an IQ above 50 could understand.
The only way to deal with racists is to kill them. That's right. Mass exterminations. It purifies the gene pool and all that. The funny thing about racist remarks on the internet is that those same guys talking shit in their mother's basement (or in this case trailer) would never have the balls to say those things in real life. If they did they would get their ass kicked or get killed. Or more likely both. And they are too afraid of death. Bunch of chicken-hawk pussies. If you aren't a pussy or punk you'll PM me your name and address and we can settle the argument properly. Deal?
Some people are so stupid that they can't see that more artists does not mean that 3d is harder. Correlation does not equal causation. They would have had more artists either way. Better graphics = more artists. That's how it works. It doesn't matter whether the art pipeline is 2d or 3d. Either way, better graphics is more work and takes more people to do. Simple logic that anyone with an IQ above 50 could understand.
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
tunguska said:
tunguska said:
Saddest thing I've read this year
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