Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: AoD - brand new screens |
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Link
Not much to say. Take a look and see for yourself. There should be 4 screens there: a full screen view and 3 dialogue screens in sequence. Hopefully you like the new graphics better. _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Spazmo Fights like a dairy farmer

Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Posts: 5754 Location: Monkey Island
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great, but I'd love to see it in motion to see what kind of animations you have and complain about those. When will there be a demo, BTW? _________________ How appropriate. You fight like a cow. |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure. We've changed the graphics after the last bitchfest. It would take awhile to update and replace everything. Also, we're planning to add a lot more models then was previously planned and pay more attention to visuals in general.
So, a demo would be available when the game is ready. We apologize for the inconvinience, and hope that you can complain about something else for now. For the record, animations look very decent. _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Nicolai `


Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Posts: 3126 Location: Yonder
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks pretty neato to me. |
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Sheriff05


Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 618 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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VD, I am totally looking forward to your game. It's really looking great
Question why the low resolution? and is/ will it be possible to adjust.
I still have several older CRT's but was just wondering about the technical limitations.
Last edited by Sheriff05 on Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Elwro -


Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 8078 Location: Krakow, Poland
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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The dialogue looks great and I know I should bitch about something else, but I think the floor and grass tiles could be more varied.
Great work nonetheless. _________________ Strong winds bring sea spray. I stand on the cliff, trying to endure the pain within me, growing stronger. Ever stronger
-Tyrax Lightning |
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obediah


Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 4968
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good to me, as long as it's clean and usable, I'm not overly concerned about graphic quality. It can look like a game from the 80's as long as I don't have to type in 4 characters to cast a spell.
I'd second questions about the resolution. Ideally the bar at the bottom would do some scaling based on resolution, and you'd just show more or less of the world. I know this isn't an easy thing to shoehorn in if it's wasn't in the initial design.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to it. |
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Jora


Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 1085 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| They look great. I have been reading everything I can about this game and a lot of it (well, everything except timed quests) has been music to my ears. I feared the graphics would turn me off, but thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the support, folks. What's wrong with timed quests, Jora? _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Nicolai `


Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Posts: 3126 Location: Yonder
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Timed quests are not that bad if you've got good time. \o\ |
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Trash '''


Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 6807 Location: About 8 meters beneath sea level.
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obediah


Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 4968
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I can't speak for Jora, but I dislike timed quests because I tend to meander through games and hate to miss things. I rarely re-play games from the start so I like to do everything I can with the character I build.
Also many games don't make it clear if a time limit will be enforced or not. And since there are so many different ways that time is handled in games it's often hard to figure when the actual last moment to address the problem is. Often games themselves are inconsistent, one quest may seem urgent but have no hard limit, while another does. Also, they are easy to forget about, especially when time is arbitrary through most of the game, only to matter at some random point.
Actually a listing of all timed open quests at the top of the game screen with a countdown, and any travel time from your current location included would be nice.
It's more realistic to have consequences for dawdling, but realistic in the way requiring food and lantern fuel is. My personal taste is to abstract it out in most circumstances. |
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MichiK

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Just chiming in for the first time... game looks awesome. I love eye-candy as much as the next guy, but right now I am playing Avernum 3 and having a great time... and we all know what those graphics are like
Question - about how big is the game? Avernum 3 size? Fallout? Baldur's gate? Or something more modest like Prelude to Darkness? |
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Jora


Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 1085 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | | What's wrong with timed quests, Jora? |
When playing RPGs, I want to relax, take my time exploring the world and do things in the order I want to. I want to decide the amount of time I spend in each location and not be told: "Look, I [the game] know that you want to go to Blackbone Hills to explore the countryside and hunt some badits before getting back to politics, but first you must take care of these quests in the harbour district, overthrow the local government and blah blah. Otherwise the time set by the maker of the game will run out and you'll never be able to complete those quests.
"And why would you want to go to Blackbone anyway? You wouldn't have time to hunt bandits because you have to save the daughter of the local mayor from getting sacrificed by the cultists. If you don't do that soon she'll be killed and the mayor will refuse to talk to to you, which makes it impossible to complete the 'Aunt Mary wants you to make many friends' quest with persuasion and diplomacy, which in turn blah blah..."
Basically timed quests prevent me from getting immersed to the world and force me to play the game in a way I don't want to. |
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Major_Blackhart -


Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 5223 Location: Jersey for now
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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VD, this game is gonna rock. It looks great, and the dialogue is very well done. Rock n Roll! _________________ Well, it's not quite a mop, and it's not quite a puppet, but man oh man.
Nicolai wrote "You are the worst person ever, Blackhart."
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7018/rexsig24nq9ky.png |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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In regard to timed quests, the reason they are in is that I hate those quests where a granny asks you to help her cross the street, you say sure, go 'xploring, and 6 months later the granny is still there, waiting for you patiently. That just sucks and kills the immersion for me.
So, a few things worth mentioning:
1) Main quests aren't timed. Only certain side quests are timed, and only where it makes sense.
2) Timing is always realistic. It's not a race. If you receive a quest and decide to do it, you would be given enough time to complete it. If you receive a quest, and decide to take care of something in a galaxy far, far away, then you probably won't have enough time, but then again, that means that you didn't care about the timed quest anyway.
3) Example of a timed quest. One of the dialogue lines above mentions the kidnapping. There are many ways to handle it, as you can see, and one of them involves the guards. They give you 24 hours to scout the location and get back with the info, before they attack. Obviously, they won't wait for you forever. With or without the info, they attack, but your info (what you can learn depends on your many skills) will affect the outcome of the attack.
While there is no flashing lights telling you OMG! ONLY 10 HOURS LEFT!! WHAT R U GONNA DO??!!!, the urgency is clear.
Comments? _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Sheriff05


Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 618 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: |
Comments? |
::::cough::::: Resolution? |
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NeutralMilkHotel


Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 389
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks very cool. |
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Jed


Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 3234 Location: Where I should've been all along ...
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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The game's really shaping up, VD. Although some of the color pallete is not so great (the grass), I think the graphics look excellent overall. The dialogue looks cleaned up from previous versions you've shown me, and the interface looks much more well-designed now.
All I have left to say is, "Can't wait!" _________________ I'll need bodybags. Lots of them.
-Commander Shepard |
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Jora


Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 1085 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | | Comments? |
Sounds reasonable. Just make it so that you don't have to accept the quests immediately after being told about them. And as obediah said, it would be good to know if the quest has a time limit or not and what the limit approximately is. |
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obediah


Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 4968
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Vault Dweller wrote: | ....
Comments? |
Sounds reasonable. But I still don't think it's as fun as letting the player pick at the questlog in their own manner.
You mention being more realistic and immersive as justifications, I've wondered how far you've gone with this. By only giving the character 10 minutes to help the lady across the street, you've only fixed half the problem. She's still had to sit inside next to the street for god knows how long, waiting for me to make it to this screen so she can waddle out to the street and get ready to hand me the quest. What if I don't talk to her? Does she go back inside after I leave and wait until the next time I come to this screen?
In the example of the kidnapping, does it always happen at the same time, and if you're elsewhere for 24 hours, you completely miss out on the quest?
Since main quests aren't timed, does that mean none of them are urgent? I think deciding on where to draw the "time abstraction line" is pretty subjective and open to debate, but being consistent is preferable. If I go through 5 quests that seem urgent but don't have time limits, and then encounter one that does have a time limit, it had better be very clear that there is a time limit this time around, to not do this is bad design in absolute terms. If time isn't important for most of the game, players won't pay attention to it enough to learn the intricacies, and then they hit a timed quest, and that's when they learn that it eats up 30 minutes when you change areas - fuck! Again, I would consider that bad design. |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MichiK wrote: | | Just chiming in for the first time... game looks awesome. |
Thanks
| Quote: | | Question - about how big is the game? Avernum 3 size? Fallout? Baldur's gate? Or something more modest like Prelude to Darkness? |
Fallout. I used it as a template in many ways. _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Jora


Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 1085 Location: Finland
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I still have to say that the biggest reason I'm very eagerly looking forward to this game is that after reading comments from game designers and ordinary posters alike about how having different ways (besides the juxtapositioning of good and evil that has come to fashion with the success of KotOR and Fable) to complete quests isn't always realistic, I have really become desperate to play a 'proper' (Volourn, don't kill me) role-playing game. So just remember not to let me down!  |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Sheriff05 wrote: | | Vault Dweller wrote: |
Comments? |
::::cough::::: Resolution? |
My apologies. The resolution is fixed at 800x600 to lower system req.
| Jora wrote: | | Just make it so that you don't have to accept the quests immediately after being told about them. |
Sure
| Quote: | | And as obediah said, it would be good to know if the quest has a time limit or not and what the limit approximately is. |
You will be told what the time limit is, i.e. "you have a day" or "we'll wait for a week". It's very easy to see if there is some sense of urgency there. If you fail to complete such a quest though, I can personally guarantee that the Sun won't explode killing everything on Earth. It's ok to fail, nobody likes overachievers.  _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 15337 Location: Vault 13
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| obediah wrote: | | What if I don't talk to her? Does she go back inside after I leave and wait until the next time I come to this screen? |
Yes. In the example of the kidnapping, the quest is active for as long as you are in the town area. After you leave the town, it's assumed that the kidnapping has been dealt with, and the triggers are pulled. Literally.
| Quote: | | In the example of the kidnapping, does it always happen at the same time, and if you're elsewhere for 24 hours, you completely miss out on the quest? |
It had already happened. The only question is whether or not you get involved and how.
| Quote: | | Since main quests aren't timed, does that mean none of them are urgent? |
No. You find a map, and decide to follow it. Some people/factions get involved. You make choices and deal with consequences biting you in the ass. _________________ Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex. |
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